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Thread: New Slooow Bulking diet...Guru's pls read

  1. #1
    16 inches of pure passion Khar's Avatar
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    New Slooow Bulking diet...Guru's pls read

    Bulking - Slow

    Meal one

    6 egg whites and 1 yolk (or 1 cup egg beaters) cooked with spam
    1/2 cup oats w/ 1 Tbsp natty pb
    20 oz water

    Monday/Wednesday/Friday WBB Routine 1

    (Postworkout Shake: Isopure Packets until I run out then 1 scoop ON

    whey mixed with 50 grams of malto/dextrose)
    20 oz water

    Meal Two

    High Protien Bar(One of many different brands I have at the moment all

    around 300 cals and 30g protien, once I have a more steady budget It

    will be NitroTech bars)
    20oz water

    Meal Three

    2 slices wwbread
    1 can tuna
    1 Tbsp Just2Good Low Fat Mayo
    1 cup salad w/low cal dressing of some sort
    20oz water

    Meal Four

    Same as Meal Two

    Meal Five

    ~8oz chicken breast
    2 cups assorted veggies
    20oz water

    Meal Six

    PM Protien Shake(right now I'm just using my ON Whey at 2 scoops for

    44g protien, but will be getting some PM protien when budget allows)

    I know I need to squeeze in some EFA's in here somewhere, any tips would be greatly appreciated. Also I don't have an exact number as far as cals goes, but if somebody has an estimate let her rip. I used the Ministry of Fitness BMR calculator and it says my BMR is 1764.5, but with moderate activity you multiply that by 1.7 for what you burn during activities...I went with 1.6 and got 2823.2 as my final BMR. I am 5'8 at 155 lbs, 19 y/o male around 8-10% bf. My goal to attain and then maintain is around 165lbs at ~6% bf

    Up until now I have an affliction with bulking as I used to be around 33% bf, and have a fear of getting fat again. I have hammered out my nutrition knowledge over the past 2 years and am eating a healthy maintaining/cutting diet right now, but I want to get really shredded ~6% bf, and have realized that the most effective way to do this is to bulk first...

  2. #2
    Senior Member GhettoSmurf's Avatar
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    looks pretty good. but maybe either have the whey before bed mixed with milk, or just have some cottage cheese.

    also maybe try to get some more EFA's in there.
    "Eat until it hurts dammit! Then eat more. Youll get used to it. I think its like sex for a chick. Sure it hurts the first time, but after a couple rides it just goes in like a glove." -clvmike19

    "... chicks are like smarties. They're different colors but each share the same deliciousness. Its just a matter of deciding if you'll save the red ones for last or eat a bunch of different ones in the same handful." -wibble

  3. #3
    Senior Member Manveet's Avatar
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    How many cals is that? Seems low, even for a slow bulk.

    You can always throw in a couple tablespoons of olive oil to get the fat content up.
    "It is often said, mainly by the "no-contests", that although there is no positive evidence for the existence of God, nor is there evidence against his existence. So it is best to keep an open mind and be agnostic. At first sight that seems an unassailable position, at least in the weak sense of Pascal's wager. But on second thought it seems a cop-out, because the same could be said of Father Christmas and tooth fairies. There may be fairies at the bottom of the garden. There is no evidence for it, but you can't prove that there aren't any, so shouldn't we be agnostic with respect to fairies?"

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    16 inches of pure passion Khar's Avatar
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    Would it be a good idea to use skim milk as the fat is milk is saturated?

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    Newd poster SquareHead's Avatar
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    Did you say spam?
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  6. #6
    16 inches of pure passion Khar's Avatar
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    no...

  7. #7
    mmm milk NO2's Avatar
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    lol
    height 6'4
    weight 270lbs
    currently trying to lose weight
    goal: musculer 240lbs would be nice

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    confused by simplicity bradley's Avatar
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    I think the best way to determine the amount of daily calories you should be consuming is to start out around maintenance and then slowly work your way up until you are gaining about .5lbs. per week. You stated that you already had a good maintenance diet in place so just start from that calorie level. Just add ~300 cals each week to your daily calorie intake. For example, if you are taking in 2500 cals per day and maintaining, then next week bump it up to 2800 cals and see what kind of results you get. From my experience the formulas are not very accurate, and should be used as a rough estimate at best.

    The calories look a little low but if that is more than what you were eating then it is a good place to start IMO. You might want to get some additional omega 3 fatty acids in your diet, and the addition of a fish oil supplement would be an easy way to do that. As far as the PM protein I would just save my money and go with some cottage cheese before bed and maybe a tablespoon of pb. As GS suggested mix the whey with milk before bed to help slow down the digestion of the whey, and you could also add in some pb to help slow the absorption even more.

    Would it be a good idea to use skim milk as the fat is milk is saturated?
    Yes
    Last edited by bradley; 06-11-2003 at 02:56 AM.

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    Senior Member GhettoSmurf's Avatar
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    Originally posted by SquareHead
    Did you say spam?
    im assuming it was a typo and he ment pam*?

  10. #10
    Newd poster SquareHead's Avatar
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    LOL ok fresh! I was really thinking Spam. Then I got all these flashbacks to my parents trying to get us kids excited over Spam night.
    *shudder
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  11. #11
    16 inches of pure passion Khar's Avatar
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    Oh ya sorry didn't realize that...I sure hope I'm not using spam to cook my eggs

  12. #12
    SFW! drew's Avatar
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    hard to judge, I know I personally would lose weight on that diet. But see how it goes for yah.

    One thing, is I would probably move the peanut butter around a bit, (not eat it with oatmeal). if you want to do a clean bulk I would try and keep all my meals protein carbs or protein fats. When bulking I still like to move most my protein-fat meals towards the end of the day. Also, in general I dont think you are getting enough fat at all to bulk properly, I would say good fats are more important than carbs when bulking. Add some flax or some omega oil etc into your diet and you will be set.

    What I would do is take out the the shake for meal 8 and have 1 cup of cottage cheese, with 2 tablespoons of flax.
    Last edited by spl_373; 06-12-2003 at 01:40 PM.

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    oops, looks like bradley already suggested pretty much the same thing as me.

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    confused by simplicity bradley's Avatar
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    Originally posted by spl_373
    One thing, is I would probably move the peanut butter around a bit, (not eat it with oatmeal). if you want to do a clean bulk I would try and keep all my meals protein carbs or protein fats.
    There is no reason to separate carbs and fat. Fat can be stored without the presence of insulin.

    When bulking I still like to move most my protein-fat meals towards the end of the day.
    Why is that?
    Last edited by bradley; 06-12-2003 at 02:00 PM.

  16. #16
    Overtrainer.
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    Actually that diet looks good. But replace the spam with something else for gods sake.

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    Originally posted by bradley


    There is no reason to separate carbs and fat. Fat can be stored without the presence of insulin.



    Why is that?
    because from personal experience, experience of many of my peers. I stay much leaner keeping all my meals either protein/fat, or protein carbs, not combining fats and carbs. Yes, fat can be stored without the presence of insulin, but the presence of insulin will create an environment more likely for fat storage. When eating fats and protein solo, the fat will be used as the energy source not stored as fat. When you create an insulin spike while consuming fat, it is much more likely that not all the fat will be utilized by your body, and will therefor be stored as fat.

    I have found that planning my meals this way I can eat relatively high fat, high carb diet (Therefor high cals (bulking)) and keep much leaner than if I combine the two.

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    if necessary I can post a more scientific response as to why fat in the presence of carbs creates an environment more suited for fat storage. Considering my post was a grossly simplistic. I just didnt feel like going into it.

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    confused by simplicity bradley's Avatar
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    Originally posted by spl_373


    because from personal experience, experience of many of my peers. I stay much leaner keeping all my meals either protein/fat, or protein carbs, not combining fats and carbs. Yes, fat can be stored without the presence of insulin, but the presence of insulin will create an environment more likely for fat storage. When eating fats and protein solo, the fat will be used as the energy source not stored as fat. When you create an insulin spike while consuming fat, it is much more likely that not all the fat will be utilized by your body, and will therefor be stored as fat.

    I have found that planning my meals this way I can eat relatively high fat, high carb diet (Therefor high cals (bulking)) and keep much leaner than if I combine the two.
    I am just saying that it only takes a small amount of insulin to inhibit fat burning a promote fat storate, and protein will cause enough insulin release for this to happen. Fat also can promote fat storage on its own through the actions of acylation stimulation protein. With this in mind, the conclusion that you can eat a high protein/high fat meal without gaining fat is just not going to happen.

    I agree that you should keep fat low during periods of overfeeding, for example refeeds, but other than that it is going to come down to the amount of calories consumed.
    Last edited by bradley; 06-14-2003 at 04:38 AM.

  21. #21
    confused by simplicity bradley's Avatar
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    Originally posted by spl_373
    if necessary I can post a more scientific response as to why fat in the presence of carbs creates an environment more suited for fat storage. Considering my post was a grossly simplistic. I just didnt feel like going into it.
    I am not disputing the lipogenic/anti-lipolytic effects of insulin.

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    Originally posted by bradley


    I agree that you should keep fat low during periods of overfeeding, for example refeeds, but other than that it is going to come down to the amount of calories consumed.

    ok, I understand where you are coming from. But in this case we are talking about someone who is going to be "overfeeding". Even if it is a slow bulk. I guess really, its just going to come down to a matter of opinion. In my last 2 meals combined I have between 5 and 10grams of carbs, and I feel as though the insulin response to 5-10grams of carbs spread over 3 hours or so isnt going to be enough to promote fat storage.

    And I didnt answer the other part of your question. The reason I have most my protein fat meals towards the end of the day is for two reasons.

    1- it makes it easier to prevent overlap between fats and carbs (which I stated earlier I like to do)

    2- it helps slow down the digestion of the protein before going to sleep. Cottage Cheese and some good fats is optimal bedtime meal IMO.

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    also, when trying to gain muscle mass, I dont think its a good idea to limit the amount of fat too much, as I'm sure your aware of all the benefits of fat consumption. For this reason alone I think you have to try and find any way you can to limit the amount of fat storage while keeping fat intake moderate.

  24. #24
    confused by simplicity bradley's Avatar
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    Originally posted by spl_373
    ok, I understand where you are coming from. But in this case we are talking about someone who is going to be "overfeeding". Even if it is a slow bulk. I guess really, its just going to come down to a matter of opinion.
    I am still going to say that the food combining is just theory and has no real application to everyday dieting. During refeeding it will be more important becaues you would be taking in 300+ grams of carbs, but for the average meal it is not going to make that much difference.


    In my last 2 meals combined I have between 5 and 10grams of carbs, and I feel as though the insulin response to 5-10grams of carbs spread over 3 hours or so isnt going to be enough to promote fat storage.
    Like I said in my other post insulin is not necessary for fat to get stored and protein itself can cause enough of an insulin response to promote fat storage and halt fat burning. Calorie balance at the end of the day is what is important, not food combinations. Do you have any evidence that would support your theory? If you gave two individuals of the exact same bw and bf% the same amount of calories and the same types of food, but gave it to them in different combinations that the amount of weight gained would be any different?

    2- it helps slow down the digestion of the protein before going to sleep. Cottage Cheese and some good fats is optimal bedtime meal IMO.
    I agree with this statement. I though you were going in to the whole "carbs early in the day so they could be burned off" idea.

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    Originally posted by bradley


    Like I said in my other post insulin is not necessary for fat to get stored and protein itself can cause enough of an insulin response to promote fat storage and halt fat burning. Calorie balance at the end of the day is what is important, not food combinations. Do you have any evidence that would support your theory? If you gave two individuals of the exact same bw and bf% the same amount of calories and the same types of food, but gave it to them in different combinations that the amount of weight gained would be any different?

    nope, no personal studies...just experience from logging diet/fat/muscle gain etc. Although I have read scientific journals supporting my theory, but that even doesnt say much. Since you could probably find some supporting the latter. Yes like you said, insulin greatly supresses fat oxidation, and to me it just make sense then to not combine the two. Yes fat can be stored without the presence of insulin, but some can at least be oxidized.


    Originally posted by bradley

    I agree with this statement. I though you were going in to the whole "carbs early in the day so they could be burned off" idea.
    great we agree hehe. Actually although I'm still stubborn on the fat/carb thing. That statement of mine could use some refrasing as I dont think its bad to consume fat earlier in the day, just not with carbs. In fact, I have read studies where some strength athletes have performed better, consuming fat/protein meals instead of carb/protein meals preworkout.

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