Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 33

Thread: Dynamic days... They seem quite useless to me

  1. #1
    Senior Member Meat_Head's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    3,315

    Dynamic days... They seem quite useless to me

    Seriously now.... the sport is powerlifting. You lift maximal weights in the squat deadlift and bench press. NONE of those are explosive lifts, especially when you're doing a single with your top weight! Training explosively with a weight that is too light to stress your CNS or muscles significantly isn't gonna do much IMHO....

    Discuss!
    Last edited by Meat_Head; 07-02-2003 at 12:27 AM.

  2. #2
    Equal Opportunity Offender Budiak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    The discard pile.
    Posts
    0
    F=MxA





    Anything else?

  3. #3
    Baby Seal Clubber ElPietro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    12,778
    Are you saying this to start a useless argument? Or do you actually believe what you just said?

    It's pretty easy to understand for me, and there are plenty of threads everywhere on this, so I'm not going to bite on what seems to be obvious bait.
    Last edited by ElPietro; 07-02-2003 at 07:32 AM.
    Deadlifts are like women, they'll hurt you everytime, but they'll also make you a man. - Me

    Friends don't let friends do dumbell kickbacks. - Me

    ElP is the smartest man in the world. - Gyno Rhino

    A low voter turnout is an indication of fewer people going to the polls. -- Dan Quayle

    If do right, no can defense. -- Mr. Miyagi

    Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey:

    I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it.

    Is there anything more beautiful than a beautiful, beautiful flamingo, flying across in front of a beautiful sunset? And he's carrying a beautiful rose in his beak, and also he's carrying a very beautiful painting with his feet. And also, you're drunk.

    Current FFFA Enforcer

  4. #4
    Senior Member Manveet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    White Rock, BC
    Posts
    5,774
    Originally posted by Budiak
    F=MxA





    Anything else?
    That pretty much summed it up for me.
    "It is often said, mainly by the "no-contests", that although there is no positive evidence for the existence of God, nor is there evidence against his existence. So it is best to keep an open mind and be agnostic. At first sight that seems an unassailable position, at least in the weak sense of Pascal's wager. But on second thought it seems a cop-out, because the same could be said of Father Christmas and tooth fairies. There may be fairies at the bottom of the garden. There is no evidence for it, but you can't prove that there aren't any, so shouldn't we be agnostic with respect to fairies?"

    Richard Dawkins


    "Out of all of the sects in the world, we notice an uncanny coincidence: the overwhelming majority just happen to choose the one that their parents belong to. Not the sect that has the best evidence in its favour, the best miracles, the best moral code, the best cathedral, the best stained glass, the best music: when it comes to choosing from the smorgasbord of available religions, their potential virtues seem to count for nothing, compared to the matter of heredity. This is an unmistakable fact; nobody could seriously deny it. Yet people with full knowledge of the arbitrary nature of this heredity, somehow manage to go on believing in their religion, often with such fanaticism that they are prepared to murder people who follow a different one."


    Richard Dawkins


    "Bah. You know I hate poor people."

    Paul Stagg

  5. #5
    Wannabebig Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Posts
    20
    if you don't understand the very obvious logic behind dynamic effort then you need to read up, a lot.

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    289
    Bump on these guys!

  7. #7
    Senior Member benchmonster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Posts
    414
    all of the powerlifts, if done properly are quite explosive. Perhaps you are watching the wrong people lift.

    B.

  8. #8
    Feed me weird things. fuzz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    1,677
    meathead: Nice troll. Why don't you do some research or reading up on things before posting? If you are trying to start discussion, at least pose an interesting and valid question.

  9. #9
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Ft. Lauderdale, FL
    Posts
    7,850
    Explosive != fast.

    Explosive means fast recruitment of muscle fibers. The actual speed of the movement is quite irrelevant.

    Dynamic days train you to recruit fibers quickly.
    Vin Diesel has a fever.. and the only prescription is more cowbell.

    Budiak: That girl I maced
    Budiak: macked
    Budiak: heh maced
    Budiak: I wish

    ShmrckPmp5: a good thing people can't fire guns through the computer...your ass would have been shot years ago

    Y2A 47: youre smooth as hell
    Y2A 47: thats why you get outta tickets, and into panties

    galileo: you're a fucking beast and I hate you
    galileo: hate

    assgrabbers are never subtile, they will grabb ass whereever they go,public or not, I know the type, because I am one. - Rock

  10. #10
    Jack's Utter Surprise Saturday Fever's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Chico
    Posts
    3,691
    The dynamic work is just as important as the ME work, if not more so.

    If you can't get the bar into your power zone, you're going to get pinned.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Meat_Head's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    3,315
    Originally posted by PowerManDL
    Explosive != fast.

    Explosive means fast recruitment of muscle fibers. The actual speed of the movement is quite irrelevant.

    Dynamic days train you to recruit fibers quickly.
    Thanks for posting something that actually tells me something, as opposed to the other westside obsessed bunnies.

    It was part question and part trying to get a good discussion going.

    F=MxA.... I know this. My point was that doing 2 or 3 reps with 60% isn't going to stress much... Why not use 80%+ of your max explosively?

    Olympic lifts are explosive. Olympic lifters train for explosiveness. When they are seriously trying to increase their explosive lifts, they don't use tiny weights.

    Westside is a good system, I agree, but seriously, 60% of your max? I could train singles close to my max explosively every time I workout and I would get more progression then switching to a tiny weight every once in a while... just makes sense to me.

  12. #12
    Wannabebig Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Posts
    20
    well, all i can say is that having days just for speed has helped me through so many pleateu's that i won't doubt the system

  13. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    1,012
    When you are using 60% or so for your speed days, you are actually putting 100% force into it. Singles close to your max couldn't be trained explosively. You need the speed work to blast through your sticking points. A max attempt is estimated to be around 3 seconds long. That is how long it should take you to get three reps with the dynamic method. Makes perfect sence.
    Squat - 505
    Bench - 325
    Deadlift - 550
    Total - 1380@175

  14. #14
    Senior Member Meat_Head's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    3,315
    Originally posted by dkliewer
    When you are using 60% or so for your speed days, you are actually putting 100% force into it. Singles close to your max couldn't be trained explosively. You need the speed work to blast through your sticking points. A max attempt is estimated to be around 3 seconds long. That is how long it should take you to get three reps with the dynamic method. Makes perfect sence.
    You can put 100% explosion on it, but you can do that with any weight. Explain to me how doing a dynamic session with 60% of your max is better than doing it with 80 or even 90%. If you're looking to increase your one rep max, it seems like it would make sense to train with a weight closer to your max.

    By the way I would never work with my actual single rep max, just close to it...

    I'm not trying to come off as arrogant either, just trying to figure out why you guys do it that way...

  15. #15
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Ft. Lauderdale, FL
    Posts
    7,850
    Originally posted by xMeat_Headx
    Thanks for posting something that actually tells me something, as opposed to the other westside obsessed bunnies.

    It was part question and part trying to get a good discussion going.

    F=MxA.... I know this. My point was that doing 2 or 3 reps with 60% isn't going to stress much... Why not use 80%+ of your max explosively?

    Olympic lifts are explosive. Olympic lifters train for explosiveness. When they are seriously trying to increase their explosive lifts, they don't use tiny weights.

    Westside is a good system, I agree, but seriously, 60% of your max? I could train singles close to my max explosively every time I workout and I would get more progression then switching to a tiny weight every once in a while... just makes sense to me.
    Its more than just force output. A couple of factors become optimized in that range.

    RFD, you're correct. That's best developed with heavier loads, in terms of specificity.

    However, the function of power, force*velocity, is best developed at lower loads. This is still critical for motor unit recruitment.

    Additionally, you have to take into account the effect of reactive ability. This is the effect of quickly halting and reversing an eccentric movment, and can't be trained with heavier weights. In fact, 60% is probably as heavy as you should go, and even then its likely too much.

    The lighter days have their place.

    Finally, OLers train heavy as a % of max in that lift yes, but compare a lifter's max clean to his max deadlift, percentage wise.
    Vin Diesel has a fever.. and the only prescription is more cowbell.

    Budiak: That girl I maced
    Budiak: macked
    Budiak: heh maced
    Budiak: I wish

    ShmrckPmp5: a good thing people can't fire guns through the computer...your ass would have been shot years ago

    Y2A 47: youre smooth as hell
    Y2A 47: thats why you get outta tickets, and into panties

    galileo: you're a fucking beast and I hate you
    galileo: hate

    assgrabbers are never subtile, they will grabb ass whereever they go,public or not, I know the type, because I am one. - Rock

  16. #16
    Senior Member Meat_Head's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    3,315
    Originally posted by PowerManDL


    Its more than just force output. A couple of factors become optimized in that range.

    RFD, you're correct. That's best developed with heavier loads, in terms of specificity.

    However, the function of power, force*velocity, is best developed at lower loads. This is still critical for motor unit recruitment.

    Additionally, you have to take into account the effect of reactive ability. This is the effect of quickly halting and reversing an eccentric movment, and can't be trained with heavier weights. In fact, 60% is probably as heavy as you should go, and even then its likely too much.

    The lighter days have their place.

    Finally, OLers train heavy as a % of max in that lift yes, but compare a lifter's max clean to his max deadlift, percentage wise.
    I see, would it make sense to train both in one workout? Would it be better to do them seperately?

  17. #17
    As I Am Paul Stagg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    Baltimore, MD, USA
    Posts
    8,668
    Using terms like 'Westside obsessed bunnies' is a good way to piss off a lot of people, and not a good way to foster productive discussion.
    Squats work better than supplements.
    "You know, if I thought like that, I'd never put more than one plate on the bar for anything, I'd never use bands or chains, I'd never squat to parallel or below, and I'd never let out the slightest grunt when I lift. At some point in your lifting career (assuming you're planning on getting reasonably strong and big), you're going to have to accept that most people think you are some kind of freak." -Sensei
    "You're wrong, and I have a completely irrelevant pubmed abstract that may or may not say so." - Belial
    I has a blog.
    I has a facebook.

  18. #18
    Baby Seal Clubber ElPietro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    12,778
    I think we need to post F=MxA like 10 more times then he will comprehend.

    F=MxA
    F=MxA
    F=MxA
    F=MxA
    F=MxA
    F=MxA
    F=MxA
    F=MxA
    F=MxA
    F=MxA

    So let's see, if mass is decreased, but accelerated faster, in equal proportion, the force output remains equal. Interesting. Also, we learn to lift explosively, which is crucial off the bottom in all 3 powerlifting movements, to get the weight moving in a positive direction. Also very interesting.

    I think I'll put my f*cking bunny ears back on now...
    Deadlifts are like women, they'll hurt you everytime, but they'll also make you a man. - Me

    Friends don't let friends do dumbell kickbacks. - Me

    ElP is the smartest man in the world. - Gyno Rhino

    A low voter turnout is an indication of fewer people going to the polls. -- Dan Quayle

    If do right, no can defense. -- Mr. Miyagi

    Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey:

    I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it.

    Is there anything more beautiful than a beautiful, beautiful flamingo, flying across in front of a beautiful sunset? And he's carrying a beautiful rose in his beak, and also he's carrying a very beautiful painting with his feet. And also, you're drunk.

    Current FFFA Enforcer

  19. #19
    3:16
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Posts
    4,254
    think people fall into the trap of it does not make them feel tired or get a pump so it must not be working.

    i am not sure how much Dymanic days contributed to my overall lifts. but i did them for a year.
    my exprience - joined gym 10 years ago, 6 1/2 years hard weight training exprience.

  20. #20
    Senior Member Meat_Head's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    3,315
    Originally posted by ElPietro
    [B]I think we need to post F=MxA like 10 more times then he will comprehend.

    F=MxA
    F=MxA
    F=MxA
    F=MxA
    F=MxA
    F=MxA
    F=MxA
    F=MxA
    F=MxA
    F=MxA
    That's just immature....


    So let's see, if mass is decreased, but accelerated faster, in equal proportion, the force output remains equal.
    That's just foolish. There's no way to measure that completely accurately. The only reason a dynamic day makes sense is for training to activate more motor units faster, like powerman said. You will NOT be able to make a dynamic workout equal to a maximal one just because you decrease the mass and increase the acceleration. They train two seperate things....

    Interesting. Also, we learn to lift explosively, which is crucial off the bottom in all 3 powerlifting movements, to get the weight moving in a positive direction. Also very interesting.
    This makes sense. If you train yourself to activate fibers more effeciently and faster at the bottom position of the movement, it would help the bar get moving. Good job...

  21. #21
    Senior Member Meat_Head's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    3,315
    Originally posted by Paul Stagg
    Using terms like 'Westside obsessed bunnies' is a good way to piss off a lot of people, and not a good way to foster productive discussion.
    I agree, it was out of line, as were their responses to my origional statement.

  22. #22
    Senior Member Meat_Head's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    3,315
    Originally posted by body
    think people fall into the trap of it does not make them feel tired or get a pump so it must not be working.

    i am not sure how much Dymanic days contributed to my overall lifts. but i did them for a year.
    I've done plenty of things in my training that don't give me a pump, and that I'm pretty sure no one else here has ever tried. I don't know if its possible to measure how they affect your lifts over all because you never know what your progress would be like if you only did maximal days.

    I just wanted to understand the principle of dynamic days in more depth, rather than accepting the spouting off of a simple formula F=MxA

  23. #23
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Ft. Lauderdale, FL
    Posts
    7,850
    F = ma is only a small part of it.

    Given equal force, you'll get different training effects for a larger quantity of m than you would for a larger quantity of a, which is why the dynamic days are key.
    Vin Diesel has a fever.. and the only prescription is more cowbell.

    Budiak: That girl I maced
    Budiak: macked
    Budiak: heh maced
    Budiak: I wish

    ShmrckPmp5: a good thing people can't fire guns through the computer...your ass would have been shot years ago

    Y2A 47: youre smooth as hell
    Y2A 47: thats why you get outta tickets, and into panties

    galileo: you're a fucking beast and I hate you
    galileo: hate

    assgrabbers are never subtile, they will grabb ass whereever they go,public or not, I know the type, because I am one. - Rock

  24. #24
    Equal Opportunity Offender Budiak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    The discard pile.
    Posts
    0
    How is putting out 100% effort not equal to 100% effort at a higher weight? When you do dynamic days, are you just babying the weight? You can't do that, that weight has to fire up as fast as possible. Its 100% intensity at 60% weight. If you put 400 pounds of force out on the lesser load, you can do multiple reps..I...what is so difficult to understand?
    Last edited by Adam; 07-04-2003 at 09:29 AM.

  25. #25
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    1,012
    I think that's what everyone has been saying.
    Squat - 505
    Bench - 325
    Deadlift - 550
    Total - 1380@175

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •