The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
Latest Article

The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
More Recent Articles
Contrast Training for Size
By: Lee Boyce
An Interview with Marianne Kane of Girls Gone Strong
By: Jordan Syatt
What Supplements Should I be Taking? By: Jay Wainwright
Bench Like a Girl By: Julia Ladewski
Some Thoughts on Building a Big Pull By: Christopher Mason

Facebook Join Facebook Group       Twitter Follow on Twitter       rss Subscribe via RSS
Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 26 to 50 of 102
  1. #26
    Pretty Fly for an Old Guy W8_4_Me's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Tampa Bay, FL
    Posts
    1,117
    Gino-

    So what you're saying is that because that's what YOU do, that's what's best for everyone who is reading this forum?
    "A winner...knows how much he still has to learn, even when he is considered an expert by others; A loser...wants to be considered an expert by others, before he has even learned enough to know how little he knows." - Sydney Harris


    "It takes a big man to cry, and an even BIGGER man to laugh at that man!" - Jack Handey


    "It's simple. If it jiggles, it's fat." - Arnold Schwarzenegger

  2. #27
    Baby Seal Clubber ElPietro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    12,778
    Do this:

    Sit down, on a chair, or a curb or a bench, place your feet flat on the floor, and without using your arms stand up. Do it 10,000 times if you like, you will notice that you lean forward then stand up. A squat is not 100 % vertical, neither is standing up from a seated position which a squat basically is mimicking. There is a whole lot going on in a squat that is removed when you use a smith. If you are happy with your results that's fine, but it's not the same thing by a long shot.
    Deadlifts are like women, they'll hurt you everytime, but they'll also make you a man. - Me

    Friends don't let friends do dumbell kickbacks. - Me

    ElP is the smartest man in the world. - Gyno Rhino

    A low voter turnout is an indication of fewer people going to the polls. -- Dan Quayle

    If do right, no can defense. -- Mr. Miyagi

    Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey:

    I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it.

    Is there anything more beautiful than a beautiful, beautiful flamingo, flying across in front of a beautiful sunset? And he's carrying a beautiful rose in his beak, and also he's carrying a very beautiful painting with his feet. And also, you're drunk.

    Current FFFA Enforcer

  3. #28
    Baby Seal Clubber ElPietro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    12,778
    Originally posted by W8_4_Me
    Gino-

    So what you're saying is that because that's what YOU do, that's what's best for everyone who is reading this forum?
    Isn't that the sole basis of your argument for smith machines?

    He has at least made mention of other musclegroups trained by not using the smith, you just argue that it worked for you, so it must for everyone. Oh wait, you said that both are vertical so they are the same, which was entirely wrong anyway.
    Deadlifts are like women, they'll hurt you everytime, but they'll also make you a man. - Me

    Friends don't let friends do dumbell kickbacks. - Me

    ElP is the smartest man in the world. - Gyno Rhino

    A low voter turnout is an indication of fewer people going to the polls. -- Dan Quayle

    If do right, no can defense. -- Mr. Miyagi

    Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey:

    I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it.

    Is there anything more beautiful than a beautiful, beautiful flamingo, flying across in front of a beautiful sunset? And he's carrying a beautiful rose in his beak, and also he's carrying a very beautiful painting with his feet. And also, you're drunk.

    Current FFFA Enforcer

  4. #29
    Pretty Fly for an Old Guy W8_4_Me's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Tampa Bay, FL
    Posts
    1,117
    Originally posted by gino
    Stabilizers aren't invisible muscles that don't contribute to the overall muscle mass of an individual. They get stimulated, grow larger and stronger like any other muscle group. You're only as strong as your weakest link, so keeping the stabilizers strong will allow you to work your large muscle groups harder and make you a bigger, stronger individual. The difference between a bodybuilder's and a powerlifter's physique has little to do with musculature and everything to do with bodyfat percentage.
    I disagree. People have told me for years that my stabilizers aren't what they oughta be, yet my strength level is higher than yours.

    Additionally, I do MUCH less weight to achieve BB goals than I EVER did as a PL.

    I have no idea where you come up with this crap.
    "A winner...knows how much he still has to learn, even when he is considered an expert by others; A loser...wants to be considered an expert by others, before he has even learned enough to know how little he knows." - Sydney Harris


    "It takes a big man to cry, and an even BIGGER man to laugh at that man!" - Jack Handey


    "It's simple. If it jiggles, it's fat." - Arnold Schwarzenegger

  5. #30
    Pretty Fly for an Old Guy W8_4_Me's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Tampa Bay, FL
    Posts
    1,117
    I never said that squatting was 100% vertical. Not anywhere.

    Every smith post in this forum has people saying that smiths are no good. They are prefectly fine. They not only get the job done, but they do a nice, efficient job of it.
    Last edited by Maki Riddington; 07-07-2003 at 12:24 PM.
    "A winner...knows how much he still has to learn, even when he is considered an expert by others; A loser...wants to be considered an expert by others, before he has even learned enough to know how little he knows." - Sydney Harris


    "It takes a big man to cry, and an even BIGGER man to laugh at that man!" - Jack Handey


    "It's simple. If it jiggles, it's fat." - Arnold Schwarzenegger

  6. #31
    HomeYield WillKuenzel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Charleston, SC
    Posts
    7,769
    As long as that's clarified that we are talking solely about bodybuilding and not powerlifting or strength training then I'll say that for the recreational weightlifter smith squats have their place just like free squats.

    If you read my first post, you'll notice that I said I do smith squats or have done them. Because they are different I like to do them from time to time. Its like doing the leg press. It stresses a different part of the muscle group while letting other parts of the body relax so that concentration can be focused on more certain parts.

    But I think you'll find that you've had quite a bit of agreement in that they have their place. But like you need said different isn't bad, you'll find in looking through the journals that there are a few that toss in smith squats from time to time.

    I think the biggest thing here is that getting people to do free squats isn't a bad thing. If an experienced bodybuilder likes smith squats better then that's great. But are you advocating that newbies shouldn't learn how to do free squats? I think that's where most of the problem lies with smith squats on the board. Its not so much that smith squats are bogus but that you should at least be able to do both and make a judgement based upon your own experience.


    I don't have a problem with smith machines besides the fact that many people I've seen have become too reliant upon them without first learning proper free weight form. Maybe you don't notice it because you have trained in PL previously but in guys I've talked to and have helped in the gym, there is a vast difference. You've come to understand that the squat goes straight up and down. Others I've talked to have used the smith machine and then transferring that to a squat get lost because the don't have the balance or the restricted movement of just up and down, where outside of the smith machine the bar can travel forward and backward.

    My point is because both have their place, both should be learned. We advocate free squats strongly on here because once you have that form down you can easily move to smith squats but its a little different vice versa. Different is good but having the best of both worlds is the best bet.

    If an experienced person ask me which one they should do, I'd say either, or a mixture of both. If a newbie ask me I'd say purely free squats as I see more benefit out of it in the early stages than I do smith squats.

    You might see it differently since it appears you have your own personal vendetta in promoting smith machines over anything. Balance is a good thing to have though.
    What is elite?
    "Those who work the hardest often complain the least." -anonymous
    Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional.

  7. #32
    Baby Seal Clubber ElPietro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    12,778
    Originally posted by W8_4_Me
    People who claim that there's a forced ROM are so full of it. If you watch your form... you go down, you go up... you keep your back straight and look at the ceiling... IT'S THE SAME EITHER WAY. IF NOT, YOUR FORM IS OFF.
    Ok smart guy, I see I have to quote you for you to realize what YOU said. Alzheimers already? You may as well not use your smith squat at all and just leg press, and this isn't just a bb forum so get a grip.
    Deadlifts are like women, they'll hurt you everytime, but they'll also make you a man. - Me

    Friends don't let friends do dumbell kickbacks. - Me

    ElP is the smartest man in the world. - Gyno Rhino

    A low voter turnout is an indication of fewer people going to the polls. -- Dan Quayle

    If do right, no can defense. -- Mr. Miyagi

    Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey:

    I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it.

    Is there anything more beautiful than a beautiful, beautiful flamingo, flying across in front of a beautiful sunset? And he's carrying a beautiful rose in his beak, and also he's carrying a very beautiful painting with his feet. And also, you're drunk.

    Current FFFA Enforcer

  8. #33
    Pretty Fly for an Old Guy W8_4_Me's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Tampa Bay, FL
    Posts
    1,117
    Oh, yeah, that's where I said "squats are to be done with 100% verticality."



    Home Yield, I agree with you.

    However, you might be seeing the entire picture. Most novice or recreational lifters don't even DO squats. 6-12 months from now, most novice or recreational lifters won't even be novice or recreational lifters any more.

    Many lifters will quit because they will listen to bad advice. Bad advice about which exercises and pieces of equipment work and which don't work. They will get frustrated or hurt, and thus will quit lifting. Sad, but true.

    What I am saying is that it's important (as you are saying) to be flexible and try different things. Each person has a different puzzle to solve, so what works for ONE may or may not work for another.

    You know, I have never eaten asparagus. people say it's great, but I have said that I hate it. That's not a very fair assessment, is it? I've never tried it, so how can I say I HATE it?

    Same with all this stuff.
    Last edited by Maki Riddington; 07-07-2003 at 12:24 PM.
    "A winner...knows how much he still has to learn, even when he is considered an expert by others; A loser...wants to be considered an expert by others, before he has even learned enough to know how little he knows." - Sydney Harris


    "It takes a big man to cry, and an even BIGGER man to laugh at that man!" - Jack Handey


    "It's simple. If it jiggles, it's fat." - Arnold Schwarzenegger

  9. #34
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Kitchener, ON
    Posts
    11,341
    to answer frog's original questions and get back on track instead of this stale smith-machine-jihad discussion that always seems to crop up (to my mind, the argument always stems from either people assuming that smiths are the same as freeweight, or from people assuming that smiths are worthless because they're NOT freeweight, both of which are ridiculous notions).


    your three points are all negated by your last statement, in that you hate free squats.

    if you hate 'em, don't do 'em. Too easy. You can grow using smith squats. 'Nuff said.

    as I see it, if you progress as a bodybuilder to the point that you feel limited by the smith squats and want to incorporate free squats because you feel you will get something more out of them then, then go for it

  10. #35
    Baby Seal Clubber ElPietro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    12,778
    Originally posted by W8_4_Me
    Oh, yeah, that's where I said "squats are to be done with 100% verticality."

    You said they are the same as a smith squat. Smith squats follow a fixed path along the lift, and that's it. Do you normally follow a fixed path when you stand up? Maybe try standing up another 10,000 times as I suggested above, if you didn't figure it out the first 10,000 ok? It's amazing that you can train for so long and know so little....
    Last edited by ElPietro; 07-07-2003 at 12:28 PM.
    Deadlifts are like women, they'll hurt you everytime, but they'll also make you a man. - Me

    Friends don't let friends do dumbell kickbacks. - Me

    ElP is the smartest man in the world. - Gyno Rhino

    A low voter turnout is an indication of fewer people going to the polls. -- Dan Quayle

    If do right, no can defense. -- Mr. Miyagi

    Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey:

    I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it.

    Is there anything more beautiful than a beautiful, beautiful flamingo, flying across in front of a beautiful sunset? And he's carrying a beautiful rose in his beak, and also he's carrying a very beautiful painting with his feet. And also, you're drunk.

    Current FFFA Enforcer

  11. #36
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Kitchener, ON
    Posts
    11,341
    gentlemen.

    you don't have to agree.

    you DO have to play nice. keep it above the belt OK?

    come on now!!

  12. #37
    Pretty Fly for an Old Guy W8_4_Me's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Tampa Bay, FL
    Posts
    1,117
    Originally posted by ElPietro
    You said they are the same as a smith squat. Smith squats follow a fixed path along the lift, and that's it. Do you normally follow a fixed path when you stand up?
    Since when does ANYONE watch their form when they stand up?

    But when I have 500# on my shoulders... yes, I DO tend to watch my form. Yes, I DO try to stay as straight as I can, vertically speaking. If I bend over, I will more than likely break my spine... oh, now THERE'S the end result I want! Yes, smiths DO follow a fixed path, and MOST squatters DON'T follow ANY sort of a path. Maybe that's the problem.

    It's amazing that you can train for so long and know so little....
    That's why you never cease to amaze me!
    "A winner...knows how much he still has to learn, even when he is considered an expert by others; A loser...wants to be considered an expert by others, before he has even learned enough to know how little he knows." - Sydney Harris


    "It takes a big man to cry, and an even BIGGER man to laugh at that man!" - Jack Handey


    "It's simple. If it jiggles, it's fat." - Arnold Schwarzenegger

  13. #38
    Baby Seal Clubber ElPietro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    12,778
    Originally posted by W8_4_Me


    Since when does ANYONE watch their form when they stand up?

    But when I have 500# on my shoulders... yes, I DO tend to watch my form. Yes, I DO try to stay as straight as I can, vertically speaking. If I bend over, I will more than likely break my spine... oh, now THERE'S the end result I want! Yes, smiths DO follow a fixed path, and MOST squatters DON'T follow ANY sort of a path. Maybe that's the problem.
    WTF? Nobody watches their form? You are the only one who shouldn't since you can't change it on a smith machine. FYI I'm pretty damned sure squatters constantly check their form and have others watching for them. I'm sure you probably would break your spine as a novice squatter. Maybe you should try them some day.

    And the other funny thing I find with your argument. You keep loving your smith machine when your smith isn't even like the ones people are speaking of. Most smiths in gyms ARE counterbalanced sherlock, so your understanding of them isn't the same as your understanding of the one you train with. Unless you simply haven't figured out how yours works. These conversations are getting rather boring though. I have nothing against people using the smith, just the ignorant who think it's the same as a squat, or even close.
    Deadlifts are like women, they'll hurt you everytime, but they'll also make you a man. - Me

    Friends don't let friends do dumbell kickbacks. - Me

    ElP is the smartest man in the world. - Gyno Rhino

    A low voter turnout is an indication of fewer people going to the polls. -- Dan Quayle

    If do right, no can defense. -- Mr. Miyagi

    Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey:

    I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it.

    Is there anything more beautiful than a beautiful, beautiful flamingo, flying across in front of a beautiful sunset? And he's carrying a beautiful rose in his beak, and also he's carrying a very beautiful painting with his feet. And also, you're drunk.

    Current FFFA Enforcer

  14. #39
    MACHINE
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    on the short bus
    Posts
    0
    Originally posted by W8_4_Me


    I disagree. People have told me for years that my stabilizers aren't what they oughta be, yet my strength level is higher than yours.

    Additionally, I do MUCH less weight to achieve BB goals than I EVER did as a PL.

    I have no idea where you come up with this crap.
    First things first - if you want to discuss something like an adult, don't sound like a child. Getting defensive about my preference and information about squats is pretty lame. I didn't "come up with this crap," I tried both smith and free squats, got results, then found out the science behind the results, which supported my results of preferring free squats for thigh muscle mass and strength. I've been training for over 10 years and studied diet/nutrition/training for just as long, so don't think you're talking to a chump. I've forgotten more than a lot of people know about the game, so settle down. I've competed in powerlifting, successfully prepared myself for college football all 4 years I played, and won a bodybuilding competition...but do I use that to support my opinion? No, because that is VERY lame.


    Also, what makes you think you're stronger than me? Pound-for-pound? I don't recall posting my maxes anywhere. Nor do I remember a direct correlation between strength and training intelligence. I have a friend who eats 3 meals of garbage every day and maintains below 8% bodyfat year-round, so that means he knows how to diet right? Wrong.
    "He's the best damn rollerskater that ever lived...probably in the whole town" - Chris Pontius

    If you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with.

    5'10" 215 lbs
    Personal Bests:
    Bench 355
    Squat 505
    Deadlift 560

  15. #40
    Pretty Fly for an Old Guy W8_4_Me's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Tampa Bay, FL
    Posts
    1,117
    Do you feel better now?

    Smith or free, as long as you lift and use good form.

    Good form.

    ElPietro, I am sure you use good form. I am SURE, also, that the vast majority of teenage boys who come to this forum to gain knowledge do not. You can go to ANY gym in America and see this first hand.

    How many threads have we read time after time about Joe Newbie who heard that this or that technique was either the BEST way to do something or the WORST way when any experienced lifter would tell you that there's more than one way to achieve the same goal.

    In this thread alone you can read several posts like that.

    I am merely suggesting that it's all a matter of results and preference. What works best for an individual. There is no sure-fire method.

    Now, if you find a way to fight about that, then you are obviously just looking to be argumentative.
    "A winner...knows how much he still has to learn, even when he is considered an expert by others; A loser...wants to be considered an expert by others, before he has even learned enough to know how little he knows." - Sydney Harris


    "It takes a big man to cry, and an even BIGGER man to laugh at that man!" - Jack Handey


    "It's simple. If it jiggles, it's fat." - Arnold Schwarzenegger

  16. #41
    MACHINE
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    on the short bus
    Posts
    0
    I know I feel better
    "He's the best damn rollerskater that ever lived...probably in the whole town" - Chris Pontius

    If you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with.

    5'10" 215 lbs
    Personal Bests:
    Bench 355
    Squat 505
    Deadlift 560

  17. #42
    Pretty Fly for an Old Guy W8_4_Me's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Tampa Bay, FL
    Posts
    1,117
    gino-

    Sorry that I have ruffled your feathers. It was you who posted your last leg workout, right? it was you who put your hieght/weight in there, wasn't it? 405 x 5 and 455 x 2? 5' 10" @ 215? I didn't fall prey to my alzheimer's again, did I?

    You have done what a miniscule fraction of the people who pick up a weight do or will EVER do.

    You found the solution to your personal fitness needs, just as I have found mine, and as El Pietro has found his... but we are the real rarity.

    Most don't EVER figure it out.

    What's the harm in inviting people to try a variety of things? I fully content that just because something works well for oneperson, that doesn't make it the gospel.
    "A winner...knows how much he still has to learn, even when he is considered an expert by others; A loser...wants to be considered an expert by others, before he has even learned enough to know how little he knows." - Sydney Harris


    "It takes a big man to cry, and an even BIGGER man to laugh at that man!" - Jack Handey


    "It's simple. If it jiggles, it's fat." - Arnold Schwarzenegger

  18. #43
    MACHINE
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    on the short bus
    Posts
    0
    Originally posted by W8_4_Me
    gino-

    Sorry that I have ruffled your feathers. It was you who posted your last leg workout, right? it was you who put your hieght/weight in there, wasn't it? 405 x 5 and 455 x 2? 5' 10" @ 215? I didn't fall prey to my alzheimer's again, did I?

    You have done what a miniscule fraction of the people who pick up a weight do or will EVER do.

    You found the solution to your personal fitness needs, just as I have found mine, and as El Pietro has found his... but we are the real rarity.

    Most don't EVER figure it out.

    What's the harm in inviting people to try a variety of things? I fully content that just because something works well for oneperson, that doesn't make it the gospel.
    No, you're right about the weights I posted, but aside from the low reps, they were bodybuilding style squats for me - narrow stance, slow negative, high bar placement, etc... I could have done 500, but it wasn't even my plan to go up as high as I did and I didn't have a spotter, so I did a double with something I could have done a triple with. Now if you can do a lot more than that with free weight squats right now, props to you, but I just didn't realize you even knew what your free weight squat was since you didn't do them any more.

    And I totally agree with you about trying things out before making decisions, but I can only fully support something I have had positive first-hand experience with... I never knock the smith machine as worthless because I have used it a lot over the years and definitely find value in it. I have a feeling that I'll be using it a lot more 20 years from now too...
    "He's the best damn rollerskater that ever lived...probably in the whole town" - Chris Pontius

    If you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with.

    5'10" 215 lbs
    Personal Bests:
    Bench 355
    Squat 505
    Deadlift 560

  19. #44
    HomeYield WillKuenzel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Charleston, SC
    Posts
    7,769
    But to tell you all the truth, squats have nothing on walking lunges. When I started doing those my legs blew up and my squat went up like crazy at the same time.

    Now try doing those in the smith machine.
    What is elite?
    "Those who work the hardest often complain the least." -anonymous
    Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional.

  20. #45
    Pretty Fly for an Old Guy W8_4_Me's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Tampa Bay, FL
    Posts
    1,117
    .
    .
    .
    <--- is 40 now. Maybe THAT has something to do with it!

    Sorry... no offense intended... even to you, ElPietro!
    Last edited by W8_4_Me; 07-07-2003 at 02:47 PM.
    "A winner...knows how much he still has to learn, even when he is considered an expert by others; A loser...wants to be considered an expert by others, before he has even learned enough to know how little he knows." - Sydney Harris


    "It takes a big man to cry, and an even BIGGER man to laugh at that man!" - Jack Handey


    "It's simple. If it jiggles, it's fat." - Arnold Schwarzenegger

  21. #46
    Rollin Dubs HORNEDFROGS07's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    0
    Hey, I seem to have done a GREAT job stirring up this stuff....lol.

    I did free squats for the first time in about 6 months last night, and I have to say that I feel like a little b**** today.....they totally wasted my quads. I did 10x225, and (2sets) 8x275 parallel, followed by 3sets 10x185 ATF, and my a** is toasted. W/Smith squats, I would normally do 4-5 sets of declining reps with 315# up to 415#, followed by 2x20x185 ATF, and get the same soreness, so I think I'll start mixing it up a little more.
    Vincere aut mori

    "The best inspiration is not to outdo others, but to outdo ourselves."

    "From the inside looking out, you can't explain it; from the outside looking in, you can't understand it."

  22. #47
    Wounded Deadlifter ryan1117's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Posts
    1,651
    Originally posted by HORNEDFROGS07
    Hey, I seem to have done a GREAT job stirring up this stuff....lol.
    No, this Smith vs. Free Weight topic is one topic that will never die. I'm Pro-Free Weight by the way. (especially if you lift for strength)
    5-9 170

  23. #48
    Proud Father Maki Riddington's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Vancouver, B.C.
    Posts
    5,323
    [QUOTE]Originally posted by gino
    [B]Stabilizers aren't invisible muscles that don't contribute to the overall muscle mass of an individual. They get stimulated, grow larger and stronger like any other muscle group.

    *** It's not so much of a hypetrophic response but rather more of a neural repsonse that is a factor.

    You're only as strong as your weakest link, so keeping the stabilizers strong will allow you to work your large muscle groups harder and make you a bigger, stronger individual. The difference between a bodybuilder's and a powerlifter's physique has little to do with musculature and everything to do with bodyfat percentage.

    The more stabilizers and synergists worked, the more muscle fibers stimulated. Multi-jointed free weight exercises recruit the most muscle fibers, therefore stimulating more muscle strength and muscle growth.

    *** The more stabilzers that are firing the greater the demand is on them. Generally speaking, it is widely noted that a stabilzer muscle fails ("fail" meaning that the signal being sent to the brain becomes impaired or inhibited) first before the prime mover. This means that in a free squat, the stabilizers (being the weak link) will fatigue first. As a result the exercise is terminated, otherwise the prime movers will not be supported so that the proper excution or movement may be carried out. It can be thought of as a protective mechanism.

    So, to increase the strength of the stabilzers, one could simply start off with smith machine squat and move into a squat. This way the prime movers can be targetted first without the stabilzers
    becoming fatigued. Then, when you move onto the free weighted movement the stabilizers end up taking more of the load.
    Maki Fit Blog

    At Large: Optimize Your Body | Dynamic Conditioning |
    My articles on Wannabebig

    "Soli Deo Gloria"
    "Test all things; hold fast what is good.": 1 Thessalonians 5:21

    "I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do--this I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
    So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God's law; but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God--through Jesus Christ our Lord!"
    Romans 7:14-25

    "Judo is not about strength. Yet in the learning curve, all Judokas get strong. Only with time do you learn where to apply that strength."
    The Art of Judo

  24. #49
    MACHINE
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    on the short bus
    Posts
    0
    [QUOTE]Originally posted by Maki Riddington
    [B]
    Originally posted by gino

    *** It's not so much of a hypetrophic response but rather more of a neural repsonse that is a factor.

    Absolutely, it's more one than the other. Some added hypertrophy does occur though, and however minimal it is, multiply it by the amount of stabilizers involved in multi-joint movements, and your overall muscle mass will increase. The stabilizers alone won't put 2" on any physical measurements, but it'll give you a bit

    *** The more stabilzers that are firing the greater the demand is on them. Generally speaking, it is widely noted that a stabilzer muscle fails ("fail" meaning that the signal being sent to the brain becomes impaired or inhibited) first before the prime mover. This means that in a free squat, the stabilizers (being the weak link) will fatigue first. As a result the exercise is terminated, otherwise the prime movers will not be supported so that the proper excution or movement may be carried out. It can be thought of as a protective mechanism. So, to increase the strength of the stabilzers, one could simply start off with smith machine squat and move into a squat. This way the prime movers can be targetted first without the stabilzers
    becoming fatigued. Then, when you move onto the free weighted movement the stabilizers end up taking more of the load.

    Yeah, stabilizers are definitely the first to go, especially in a beginner - the back rounds or the knees buckle, etc... And for that same reason, I'd suggest a beginner start off with free weights. Wouldn't you want the stabilizers to take the brunt of the load up front so that once they're developed, the prime movers get the brunt of the load no matter what form of squat you're doing? Just different schools of thought, I guess.
    "He's the best damn rollerskater that ever lived...probably in the whole town" - Chris Pontius

    If you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with.

    5'10" 215 lbs
    Personal Bests:
    Bench 355
    Squat 505
    Deadlift 560

  25. #50
    Proud Father Maki Riddington's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Vancouver, B.C.
    Posts
    5,323
    It was more of a suggestion then what I believe in. I agree that a free squat is the way to go, I just feel that for bodybuilding purposes the smith machine takes a lot of abuse.
    Maki Fit Blog

    At Large: Optimize Your Body | Dynamic Conditioning |
    My articles on Wannabebig

    "Soli Deo Gloria"
    "Test all things; hold fast what is good.": 1 Thessalonians 5:21

    "I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do--this I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
    So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God's law; but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God--through Jesus Christ our Lord!"
    Romans 7:14-25

    "Judo is not about strength. Yet in the learning curve, all Judokas get strong. Only with time do you learn where to apply that strength."
    The Art of Judo

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •