The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

It’s no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
    The Tuna Tempter
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    calories on 2x a day training

    Hey all, here's a copy of a post I posted at the HST forums. If any of you could help me out it would be great...

    Hi everyone,
    At the moment I'm doing 2x a day HST, mon-wed-fri. In another post Blade says to 'eat eat eat' between your AM and PM workouts. What I want to know is, what's a rough calorie range I should for?

    I'm 170lbs, 5'9", 18 years old.

    I know this question is hard to answer, because there are many other variables to be considered, but I just want to know at least what the minimum I should be gettingin is.

    At the moment I'm getting nearly 3000 cals, but I think this might not be enough. If I'm doing 8-10 sets at each session, approx how much energy would I consume to complete each session?

    I hope someone can help me out, and give me a rough guide.

    Thanks,
    -Tank
    Life's too short to be small

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  3. #2
    The Tuna Tempter
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    Also, here's a draft of my new diet, if someone could give me some feedback on it, that would be good:

    Meal 1
    2 whole eggs
    4 egg whites
    2 slices Sunicrust Mightysoft Wholemeal Bread
    1 slc kraft singles light
    250ml skim milk

    Post Workout
    Vital Strength Total Protein
    3 tbl spoons Glucoforce

    Meal 3
    2 slices Sunicrust Mightysoft Wholemeal Bread
    25g salted peanuts
    Vital Strength Total Protein
    1 piece of banana oaties

    Meal 4
    2 slices Sunicrust Mightysoft Wholemeal Bread
    100g tuna in water
    1 tblspoon olive oil
    2 slices Sunicrust Mightysoft Wholemeal Bread
    1 tblspoon olive oil

    Post Workout
    Vital Strength Total Protein
    3 tbl spoons Glucoforce

    Meal 6
    2 slices Sunicrust Mightysoft Wholemeal Bread
    1 teriyaki chicken breast (100g)
    serving of salad…greens
    1 cup boiled green beans
    10ml flax seed oil
    250ml skim milk

    Meal 7
    2 slices Sunicrust Mightysoft Wholemeal Bread
    1 teriyaki chicken breast (100g)
    serving of salad…greens
    1 cup boiled green beans
    10ml flax seed oil
    250ml skim milk

    Carbs: 390g
    Fat: 95g
    Prot: 329g
    Cals: 3731

    I think I've got too much protein in there. Might have to cut some of it out. Calories just might be a bit high, but I have to take into consideration the 2 training sessions as well.
    Life's too short to be small

  4. #3
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    I notice that you're eating a lot of bread. make sure you read the ingredients list very carefully, as that most bread on the shelf is pure garbage (starchy, processed, non-fibrous flours).
    Watch out for partially hydrogenated oil and bleached enriched flour. They should be avoided at all costs.

    As for total calories....well thats a bit more tricky. The only advice I can offer is to possibly up you fat intake a hair, drop the protein to around 250g, and keep the carbs lowGI, except after your workouts. You also might want to have some high GI carbs before the workout. I've never done this before, but I've been reading that a lot of people here on this forum do, so it might not be a bad idea.

  5. #4
    confused by simplicity bradley's Avatar
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    IMO you should cut down on the protein a bit as you mentioned (~1g per lb. of bw) and increase fat and carbs. When training two times a day you will need more carbs to make sure that glycogen stores are full, and ready to go for the next session.

    More carbs in meal 1 for sure, and how many carbs are you taking in post workout?

  6. #5
    The Tuna Tempter
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    Originally posted by dirty-c
    I notice that you're eating a lot of bread. make sure you read the ingredients list very carefully, as that most bread on the shelf is pure garbage (starchy, processed, non-fibrous flours).
    Watch out for partially hydrogenated oil and bleached enriched flour. They should be avoided at all costs.

    As for total calories....well thats a bit more tricky. The only advice I can offer is to possibly up you fat intake a hair, drop the protein to around 250g, and keep the carbs lowGI, except after your workouts. You also might want to have some high GI carbs before the workout. I've never done this before, but I've been reading that a lot of people here on this forum do, so it might not be a bad idea.
    This is the ingredients of my wholemeal bread:
    wholemeal wheat flour, water, baker's yeast, gluten, salt, canola oil, emulsifier (481, 471), preservative (282), sugar, soy flour, vitamin (thiamin)

    Would you consider this w/wheat bread?
    Life's too short to be small

  7. #6
    The Tuna Tempter
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    Originally posted by bradley
    IMO you should cut down on the protein a bit as you mentioned (~1g per lb. of bw) and increase fat and carbs. When training two times a day you will need more carbs to make sure that glycogen stores are full, and ready to go for the next session.

    More carbs in meal 1 for sure, and how many carbs are you taking in post workout?
    Yeh I'm definitely lowering protein, 330g is ridiculous.

    My post workout shake contains 60g of carbs for the AM session.

    For the PM session i'm using 'Sustagen' as my post workout carbs, coz my glucoforce is running low, and no cash to buy some more atm. So 40g carbs after the PM session.


    Am I getting in enough post workout carbs?
    Life's too short to be small

  8. #7
    confused by simplicity bradley's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Tank23
    My post workout shake contains 60g of carbs for the AM session.
    This should be enough, assuming that you are going to take in more carbs during your first meal and follow up your post workout shake with a meal that contains carbs.

    For the PM session i'm using 'Sustagen' as my post workout carbs, coz my glucoforce is running low, and no cash to buy some more atm. So 40g carbs after the PM session.
    Is this like Gatorade in Australia?


    Am I getting in enough post workout carbs?
    I think 40g is probably enough, but like I said earlier make sure your previous meals have enough carbs.

    The best way to go about your diet would be how you feel during your sessions (energy level, etc.) and what kind of progress you are making each week. Try adjusting carb intake up or down and find out what works the best.
    Last edited by bradley; 07-12-2003 at 04:58 AM.

  9. #8
    confused by simplicity bradley's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Tank23


    This is the ingredients of my wholemeal bread:
    wholemeal wheat flour, water, baker's yeast, gluten, salt, canola oil, emulsifier (481, 471), preservative (282), sugar, soy flour, vitamin (thiamin)

    Would you consider this w/wheat bread?
    Usually the more processes or enriched wheat bread will not have much (if any) fiber so you can check your bread and see how much fiber it has per slice, but from the ingredients listed above it looks fine IMO. I would not really be too concerned about the glycemic index since you are eating the bread with other macronutrients.

  10. #9
    The Tuna Tempter
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    Thanks Brad.

    Is this like Gatorade in Australia?
    Nah, we have Gatorade here. Sustagen is like a chocolate powder to make milkshakes. The one I get is called 'Sustagen Sport'.

    Contains 40g carbs, 14.7g protein, 0.7g fat per 60g (3 tblspoons) of Sustagen.
    Life's too short to be small

  11. #10
    confused by simplicity bradley's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Tank23
    Thanks Brad.



    Nah, we have Gatorade here. Sustagen is like a chocolate powder to make milkshakes. The one I get is called 'Sustagen Sport'.

    Contains 40g carbs, 14.7g protein, 0.7g fat per 60g (3 tblspoons) of Sustagen.
    I see

    Why not throw in another tablespoon and bump the carbs up to about ~53g?

  12. #11
    The Tuna Tempter
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    Here's my updated diet:

    Meal 1
    1 whole egg
    5 egg whites
    2 slicesWholemeal Bread
    2 slices Wholemeal Bread
    1 slc kraft singles light


    Post Workout
    Vital Strength Total Protein
    3 tbl spoons Glucoforce

    Meal 3
    2 slices Wholemeal Bread
    25g salted peanuts
    Vital Strength Total Protein


    Meal 4
    2 slices Wholemeal Bread
    100g tuna in water
    1 tblspoon olive oil
    2 slices Sunicrust Mightysoft Wholemeal Bread
    1 tblspoon olive oil

    Post Workout
    Vital Strength Total Protein
    60g sustagen

    Meal 6
    2 slices Wholemeal Bread
    1 teriyaki chicken breast (100g)
    serving of salad…greens
    1 cup boiled green beans
    10ml flax seed oil

    Meal 7
    1 teriyaki chicken breast (100g)
    serving of salad…greens
    1 cup boiled green beans
    10ml flax seed oil

    Carbs: 302g
    Protein: 297g
    Fat: 88g
    Cals: 3249



    Even after bringing down the cals the protein is still high. Are you supposed to count total protein, or complete protein?
    I.e does the protein in my bread count as part of my protein intake?

    As it is...I count total protein.


    Also, the fact that I will be training twice a day means that I need 2 post workout shakes, which adds an extra 80 or so grams of protein to my daily intake. So on a non workout day it'll be down to approx 210g...
    Life's too short to be small

  13. #12
    The Tuna Tempter
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    Originally posted by bradley


    I see

    Why not throw in another tablespoon and bump the carbs up to about ~53g?
    I might do that Brad, but that will also up my protein intake by a bit too.....do you think that's a good idea, since my protein is already quite high is it is?
    Life's too short to be small

  14. #13
    confused by simplicity bradley's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Tank23
    Even after bringing down the cals the protein is still high. Are you supposed to count total protein, or complete protein?
    I.e does the protein in my bread count as part of my protein intake?
    Count total protein intake, seeing as how the term complete and incomplete protein is mis-leading. Some foods contain more of one AA than another, which is where the term limiting AA comes from. This is not really a concern when consuming a variety of protein sources as you are doing.


    Also, the fact that I will be training twice a day means that I need 2 post workout shakes, which adds an extra 80 or so grams of protein to my daily intake. So on a non workout day it'll be down to approx 210g...
    I really do not see the need for so much protein post workout, and IMO ~20g would be plenty.

    I might do that Brad, but that will also up my protein intake by a bit too.....do you think that's a good idea, since my protein is already quite high is it is?
    Well you could just drop the protein powder and just have the protein that is derived from the Sustagen.

  15. #14
    The Tuna Tempter
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    Well you could just drop the protein powder and just have the protein that is derived from the Sustagen.
    That's a good idea! But do you think it will make much difference, since the Sustagen isn't whey isolate?


    I think I'll cut my post workout protein down to 2 tblspoons (24g protein)....
    Life's too short to be small

  16. #15
    confused by simplicity bradley's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Tank23


    That's a good idea! But do you think it will make much difference, since the Sustagen isn't whey isolate?
    I don't think it will make that much difference because you will be taking it in anyway. The only difference would be digestion/absorption rate, but since you will be taking it in anyway this is not really a concern.

    Where does the Sustagen derive most of it's carbs? What I mean is does it contain malto, sucrose, HFCS, etc.

  17. #16
    The Tuna Tempter
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    The sustagen derives its carbs mainly from sucrose. I just checked out the label, and it says it has a GI rating of only 43. So I'm thinking this isn't good for a post workout shake.

    I'll have to try to get some more glucoforce, since it's not really all that expensive.
    Life's too short to be small

  18. #17
    Wannabebig Member
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    ok ok
    I have seen all your food intake and that is insain, but I guess you boys are a little bigger then me... thought I would ask what do you recommend for me to gain a little more muscle, I am competing in 8 weeks..
    What type of diet should I be on.. help..
    thanks
    karey
    Dream BIG Dreams
    and no one can take those away from you !!!

  19. #18
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    Originally posted by Tank23
    The sustagen derives its carbs mainly from sucrose. I just checked out the label, and it says it has a GI rating of only 43. So I'm thinking this isn't good for a post workout shake.

    I'll have to try to get some more glucoforce, since it's not really all that expensive.
    DOnt worry about where it gets the carbs, (as long a total fructose doesnt get too outta control), its all good in the end. GI is a bit of a bollocks in the end, especially when the food is mixed with anything else. If you want more carbs, try and buy some plain dextose/malto, it should be easy enough to find in Aus as I can buy it in a supermarket in NZ.

    As for total carbs, I would have more than 300g, I can lose glycogen content doing 1x per day on that amount, but you are a touch smaller than me.
    your around 76kg, so I would be looking at 304-456g/day (4-6g/kg) and probably looking at the high end for hte 2x daily, becase htey can be the killer, ESPECIALLY for hte 15s

  20. #19
    The Tuna Tempter
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    Hey noraa
    I might have to check out some supermarkets here for the dextrose. I've never seen dextrose in a supermarket before, not that I was really ever specifically looking for it . Which section do you find it in your supermarket?
    Life's too short to be small

  21. #20
    The Tuna Tempter
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    Originally posted by fitness queen
    ok ok
    I have seen all your food intake and that is insain, but I guess you boys are a little bigger then me... thought I would ask what do you recommend for me to gain a little more muscle, I am competing in 8 weeks..
    What type of diet should I be on.. help..
    thanks
    karey
    Hi Karey, I really don't know much about competing, since I've never competed before. I think you'd get more responses if you made your own thread on the topic.
    Life's too short to be small

  22. #21
    confused by simplicity bradley's Avatar
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    Originally posted by fitness queen
    ok ok
    I have seen all your food intake and that is insain, but I guess you boys are a little bigger then me... thought I would ask what do you recommend for me to gain a little more muscle, I am competing in 8 weeks..
    What type of diet should I be on.. help..
    thanks
    karey
    Probably need to give us more information such as height, weight, bf%, current diet, etc. Although with you this close to your competition I would not attempt to gain very much, because usually when gaining LBM you will gain some bf.

    Feel free to start a thread and I am sure you will get some feedback on your questions

  23. #22
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    yeah, sustagen is a halfway / bastardised - protein shake / meal replacement drink.

    tries to be everything to everyone...they do taste nice though, specially the dutch chocolate.

  24. #23
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    I find it in the general section of our supermarkets, where they stock home brew gear. They may not do that in Aus tho. Our local chemist has a home brew section too where I can get an easy 25kg bag of dextrose if i wanted.

  25. #24
    The Tuna Tempter
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    Thanks for that noraa.
    Life's too short to be small

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