The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #51
    Do that voodoo that he do
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    I've been trying to stay out of this thread.

    W8, you just won't let a pissing match go, will you? PMan tried to lay off and explain himself, and you ignored it. Bravo.

    You're using U.S. Army physical training logic as a basis of point? Especially during the 70's or 80's (when I presume you were in the military) the U.S. Army wasn't known as a wonder of physiological knowledge. Stretching has just "always" been done, as was pointed out.

    Weight lifting is also (or should be) a much different stressor on muscles than running. You're comparing apples to oranges.

    If you look at effective and progressive programs now (NCAA or professional), then stretching takes place after a warm-up, not before. Also, a lot more stress is placed on dynamic stretching, so as to not reduce explosiveness. This also allows one to stretch farther, but without causing (if warmed up) injury that slow tension stretching can.

    Yes, I've seen several severe injuries from stretching.

  2. #52
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    Originally posted by W8_4_Me
    For the record, I prefer to warm up and not stretch for weightlifting, but for anything else sport-related activity, I'm DEFINITELY going to stretch BEFORE I get started.
    .
    I think this is what a lot of us have been saying in regards to weightlifting. So what is the argument?
    Just one guy's opinion.

  3. #53
    Of the driver ilk
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    Damn nevermind.
    Last edited by Xg74; 07-28-2003 at 12:19 AM.
    "42"

  4. #54
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    Originally posted by W8_4_Me
    I am happy to share what I have learned along the way and if you keep an open mind, you will learn how make the proper choices from the start.
    Is that from your personal experience also.. that it's best to keep an open mind?
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  5. #55
    Too Beaucoup -sin-'s Avatar
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    Originally posted by W8_4_Me
    I can't ever remember any time where I suffered a debilitating stretching injury. That's just stooopid.
    HAHA yeah me either. I always stretch after my warmup sets and sometimes between sets. Its mostly a comfort thing for me.

  6. #56
    Pretty Fly for an Old Guy W8_4_Me's Avatar
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    Ok, ok... I give.

    Stretch, don't stretch... whatever.

    I was TRYING to keep an open mind when this thread began, if you read from the start.

    The the insults and challenges came in MY direction. "Ignorance is bliss" was the first one.

    I read opposing views and I disagree. If you insult me for that, I will insult you back. Almost ALL of the people reading this right now WILL NEVER get to the level of fitness I enjoy.

    You all are obviously MUCH smarter than I am.
    "A winner...knows how much he still has to learn, even when he is considered an expert by others; A loser...wants to be considered an expert by others, before he has even learned enough to know how little he knows." - Sydney Harris


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  7. #57
    HomeYield WillKuenzel's Avatar
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    Originally posted by W8_4_Me
    I was TRYING to keep an open mind when this thread began, if you read from the start.
    No offense meant here, but I don't think you've tried to keep an open mind about anything. You came in here preaching about stretching and never at any point have you considered how stretching could be bad.

    Sure you might have lots of experience and that works for you but if you have somebody new coming into it and all they hear is stretch first, its likely that if they don't have the experience then they can get hurt. Do what you want but some of us try to continue to learn.
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  8. #58
    Baby Seal Clubber ElPietro's Avatar
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    Stretching cold is just a means of warming up. It is quite inferior, and more prone to cause injury than warming up with light weight. You are promoting blood flow to the area to be worked. Notice how when you start stetching cold it takes you quite some time before you can come close to a full stretch? If you don't stetch but warmup correctly and then perform your workout, you will have a much greater stretch ROM afterwards. This is just a function of the muscle being warm. When it's cold and inelastic, it is much easier to push that muscle beyond it's elasticity and cause minor or potentially major tears. With light weight this is less likely to happen, and you are accomplishing your goals more safely and efficiently. You only increase flexibility by pushing yourself slightly beyond what you could do previously. THis is impossible to accomplish whilst the muscle fibers are cold, so there is no benefit flexibility wise. It's ok to stretch to warmup smaller parts that are more or less secondary movers but the main musclegroups will get warmed up doing the actual warmup sets.
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  9. #59
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  10. #60
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    you just have the biggest ego i've ever witnessed in my life.

    why are you so full of your self w8?

  11. #61
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    Originally posted by W8_4_Me
    Almost ALL of the people reading this right now WILL NEVER get to the level of fitness I enjoy.

    You all are obviously MUCH smarter than I am.
    yeah.. you're the best dude.. you're so huge and cut and healthy, you should be Mr. Olympia. Please some more pictures so we can all bow down to you. Not only that, but are also a genius when it comes to weight training.

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  12. #62
    Pretty Fly for an Old Guy W8_4_Me's Avatar
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    Finally... you GET it.
    "A winner...knows how much he still has to learn, even when he is considered an expert by others; A loser...wants to be considered an expert by others, before he has even learned enough to know how little he knows." - Sydney Harris


    "It takes a big man to cry, and an even BIGGER man to laugh at that man!" - Jack Handey


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  13. #63
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    Originally posted by W8_4_Me
    LAM, don't you think that it's important to get your muscles warm and pliable BEFORE you get to the bench? If you don't yet, you will ONE day!
    I do warm-up sets vs. pre-WO stretching

  14. #64
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    in my martial art class, we often do not stretch at the begining of the session.
    i have remained injury free. well minus being punched.lol
    my exprience - joined gym 10 years ago, 6 1/2 years hard weight training exprience.

  15. #65
    Go Heels! MixmasterNash's Avatar
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    Current mainstream running advice seems to suggest that stretching AFTER your run is better for you. In any case, stretching while cold is a definate no-no. When I ran competitively, it was always running for warmup, followed by stretching, followed by training.

    What's the best way? I don't know. I stretch during weightlifting between sets, after runnning, and after warmup but before playing for sports. So there! Ha! As for the efficacy of stretching in preventing injury, I'd say it's on par with being really drunk when doing stupid stuff. We all know you're safer and more relaxed when you're drunk.

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  16. #66
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    Originally posted by W8_4_Me
    Finally... you GET it.
    Even if you have an incredible physique, your level of immaturity is far more impressive. I would say "I'd expect this kind of behavior from a teenager", but that would be insulting to the teenagers here who have caried themselves with far greater composure than you probably ever will.

    Socrates once said "The only thing I know, is that I know nothing". There is a lesson in humility to be learned here. I would think a martial artist would understand that..............
    Last edited by dirty-c; 07-29-2003 at 02:51 PM.

  17. #67
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    Thanks for regarding my fellow teenagers.

    I've noticed that stretching while cold makes certain joints hurt when I'm lifting. When I am in a tight jam for time, I don't have the opportunity to do a warm-up jog (which is about a mile).

    But, if I can dedicate enough time to my workout (which includes a brisk jog at 10 on the tread) then my stretch feels more sufficient and my workout feels very adequate (ROM wise).

    When I work out on no-jog, no-stretch days I can't put up a lot. A jog and stretch gets your blood and adrenaline at a more vulnerable level to stimulate.
    :|Alec

  18. #68
    Still Plugging Away -TIM-'s Avatar
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    Originally posted by W8_4_Me
    Going running? You BETTER stretch first. Why do you suppose the U.S. Army made me stretch AND warm up prior to running 5-10 miles? Duuuuhh...
    Yeah, and the Army still thinks doing a full sit up is a good healthy way to measure physical ability even though it's PROVEN that that exercise is horrible for your back and neck.

    That's not an attack on you W8, I'm just pointing out that established organizations still have people doing things that aren't good because they're set in their ways and don't examine new studies.

    I agree on personal experience being a good rule of thumb but don't you think that it's possible that stretching a cold muscle could be bad? I mean, NO you may never injure yourself because you stretched out a cold muscle. But just because it hasn't happened to you, are you saying that it's not possible? I talked to one of my doctors and a physical therapist and both of them said the most benificial time to stretch is after my work out. My chiro, who is also a body builder, said that he's never actually seen written evidence proving that stretching before hand will eliminate or decrease the chance of hurting a muscle. He said do a few warm up sets to get the blood flowing and stretch the muscle out after I've completed my routine for the day to keep the muscles flexible.
    Best way to cheat on deadlifts...

    Stand there for a few minutes, then pace back and forth a lot, huff and puff, wait until everybody's looking. Approach the bar. Back off. Approach it again. Back off. Get some water. Chalk up. Approach the bar again. Then spray some more chalk around. Wait until people start losing interest. When nobody's looking, pick it a little off the floor, and slam it down. Jump up and yell "LIGHT WEIGHT BABY". Then give high fives all around. - Belial

  19. #69
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Supert.../message/29253


    From: Mcsiff@a...
    Date: Fri Feb 28, 2003 11:02 am
    Subject: Warming Up

    Jason McClure wrote:

    <Regarding this whole stretching issue, it seems that a case can be made
    against warm-ups with animals not warming up prior to maximal or near
    maximal running efforts and, conversely, a case can be made for warming up
    with scores of injuries seemingly resulting from non-use of warm-ups. It
    appears to me, however, that warming up is more of the logical route.

    First, it should be noted that animals don't spend their lives in chairs or
    couches all day long. Even if they do spend much time in wait for the kill,
    they still have to daily utilize conventional active methods of traveling
    (and, obviously, obtaining food and water). This automatically changes the
    issue. This is also not taking into account the fact that while running can
    impose forces many times greater upon the body than conventional weight
    lifting, working with one's own bodyweight is inately quite a bit more
    natural than lifting huge loads in manners quite different from those
    experienced in nature. Anyone recall a cheetah doing high pulls? Humans
    aren't animals. If we were cavemen, maybe there would be more plausibility
    to the animal argument.

    Secondly, if a case is going to be made against warming up, what would one
    suppose is the cause of injuries in humans which apparently commonly result
    from an improper, insufficient, or no warm-up? The possible causes that are
    coming to mind can all, seemingly, be helped with a warm-up. Or would they
    just be the results of muscular imbalances?? It seems there will always be
    extreme examples to argue a case (e.g., what about those sedentary mothers
    who lift the car off their child w/out a warm-up?), but looking at the whole
    picture, it seems that quite a sufficient case can be made for the use of
    warming up prior to a significant elevation in physical activity. >

    *** I don't think that anyone is arguing against the value of "warming-up"
    for anyone about to participate in strenuous sporting activities. The
    consensus appears to be that some form of "warming-up" can certainly be
    helpful. However, the name, "warming up," can be rather misleading, because
    this activity addresses a lot more than simple warming up of the body and
    general circulation. Therefore, I prefer to call this activity
    "pre-activity preparation," because it not only increases the temperature of
    many body tissues, but also neurologically (including prestretch,
    pre-activity or post-tetanic facilitation or relaxation of certain muscles)
    and mentally prepares the athlete for action. The beneficial effects of
    tissue warming and neuromuscular facilitation offered by "pre-activity
    preparation" are discussed in detail in Ch 3.4 of "Supertraining" 2003.

    However, there are serious doubts that some prolonged period of "special"
    stretches and drills is entirely necessary, because execution of the actual
    sporting movements themselves at a progressively increasing intensity seems
    to suffice.
    The case of animals not generally being known to warm up or
    weightlifters such as Rigert being able to use autogenic mental methods of
    rehearsal and preparation serve more as examples of what is possible rather
    than what always happens or should be followed.

    The following information taken from my other book, "Facts & Fallacies of
    Fitness" is also most relevant to this topic:

    -------------

    It is always essential to Warm Up before all Exercise?

    Siff M C Facts & Fallacies of Fitness 2003 p33

    Warming up is acknowledged to prepare the body for exercise by raising muscle
    temperature and increasing the efficiency of subsequent movement, but energy
    spent on non-functional general warming up activities may fatigue the athlete
    and hinder performance. For example, is it really necessary for a distance
    runner, swimmer or cyclist to expend effort before a very long duration event
    by warming up? Surely the early less competitive stages of the event more
    than adequately serve as a warm-up?

    It is a good idea to appreciate that there are two discrete types of warm-up:
    general and specific. A *general warm-up* uses a wide variety of actions to
    prepare the body as a whole for exercise, to increase muscle temperature and
    to stimulate the right pre-exercise mood. A *specific warm-up* relies on the
    actual exercises of the training session performed easily with lighter loads
    to provide a highly specific warm-up and neuromuscular preparatory phase. So,
    if a specific warm-up is used, the first set or so serves the necessary
    preparatory purpose and no separate warm-up is necessary before the main
    workout. Every exercise is preceded by a few specific light preparatory
    repetitions or sets and no general warm-up is necessary.

    Haven't you ever wondered why many folk warm-up for circuit or weight
    training by cycling or light jogging, then go on to execute upper body
    exercises using muscles that were not prepared in the warm-up? Is this
    logical or necessary? Moreover, who decreed that a warm-up should ever be
    entirely separate from the main workout? It probably is preferable to think
    of any workout as comprising a General Preparation Phase (GPP), a Special
    Preparation Phase (SPP) and a Main Conditioning Phase (MCP), thus providing
    a microcyclic equivalent of the planning of a macrocycle in long-term
    periodisation. One may then decide on the individualised proportion of GPP
    and SPP in any given workout for a specific athlete.

    --------------

    Dr Mel C Siff
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  20. #70
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    I always stretch and warm up. I workout at around 4-5am every morning and it feels safer to get to the blood flowing before doing any lifting or running whatsoever. For example for my bench, after stretching and moving around a bit I do I set of 85lbs. Doesn't seem like much but it gets the blood flowing especially that early in the morning.

  21. #71
    Party of "No." Tryska's Avatar
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    *lmao*@ the fight between an alleged grown up and a 15 year old.
    A little learning is a dangerous thing...

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  22. #72
    fitness celebrity JHolmes145's Avatar
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    w8_4_me cut it out
    to sculpt you must first have concrete
    You are only as stong as your weakest joint

  23. #73
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    THis was at an article in this week's T-mag (I know, I know...):

    "THE EFFECTS OF STATIC STRETCHING ON POWER AND VELOCITY DURING THE BENCH PRESS EXERCISE

    Static stretching has taken a beating lately in favor of dynamic movements. This study was conducted in order to determine the effect of static stretching on velocity and power during a single rep bench press. Following either a general warm-up with or without static stretching, bench press was performed at 85% of 1RM.

    Results: The static stretching prior to benching decreased both power and velocity by nearly 25%! I know many of you out there have been living in a cave and are still doing static stretching before and during your workouts (you know who you are!) despite the recent proliferation of data showing that static stretching impairs muscle strength. This study just adds to the evidence that itís a bad idea to stretch statically before training. Stick to dynamic warm-ups if you want the best performance and injury prevention. Or better yet, stretch the antagonist instead! (6) "

  24. #74
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    wow this is a big issue. personally, when i work out i dont stretch before lifting. i just do a few warmup sets with light weight then i build up the weight or i do a pyramid lift. the only time i really do a good stretch is if im extremely tight before i run or after a workout if i lifted really heavy and i know im gonna be sore because i know my body recovers slowly. i usually have to stretch my hamstrings alot because it seems like they are always tight, but i recommend not to stretch a cold muscle if ur gonna stretch before lifting. i would just do the motion of the exercise with the bar or light weight to get blood flowing in the muscles used to the particular lift.

  25. #75
    Define Your Soul SoulOfKoRea's Avatar
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    ok guys and gals, let's remember one thing.... we're fighting about stretching?
    My profile picture is about 5 years old, I'll get around to taking some progress pics eventually.

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