The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
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    Just got done reading "Pumping Iron"... it contradicts what you all preach here

    "Pumping Iron" was the first book written on the art and sport of bodybuilding. It was published in 1974. This is still a damn good read, and I recommend buying a copy if you can find it. Arnold has some hilarious quotes that might get him in some political trouble here soon

    The author explains a little about their routines. For example, Arnold did 1500, yes, 1500 calf raises a WEEK. This is just the tip of the iceberg. Some of those guys were benchpressing 800 times a DAY. Obviously, their routines work. My question is why these incredible routines are not emulated by people on this forum. If Arnold had such great success with extremely high reps, why can't the average weightlifter?

    Thanks.

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  3. #2
    Baby Seal Clubber ElPietro's Avatar
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    Well if you want to train like a pro, you have to inject like one too.
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  4. #3
    Crrrrrrrrrrest!!!!! mikey4402's Avatar
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  5. #4
    Senior Member Wikked1's Avatar
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    WHICH makes me wonder aloud......hmmm if ARNOLD does get into office what MIGHT the impact be (if any ) on steroid laws in Ca?

  6. #5
    WBB's Juggernaut/Liason BigCorey75's Avatar
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    all of those guys doing that insane amout of stuff, were juiced up more than an illegal street racer.

    when you juice it allows one to lift with insane amouts of volume and it enables your muscles to handle more weigth and recover more completly and more quickly

    if you tried something like that being a naturla lifter, youd have to suck down an entire bottle of glutamine after each workout, after your friends dragged you outin tears and bleeding and drove you home.

    this is why natural lifters have to adopt a low volume high intensity workout so we can maximize our bodies and not break them down with such insane amounts of volume.
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  7. #6
    Cyber Playa AllUp's Avatar
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    Originally posted by ElPietro
    Well if you want to train like a pro, you have to inject like one too.
    Haha nice one, lol.
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  8. #7
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    Bruce Lee also had an insane workout schedule, lots of reps. I think his thing was more on keeping body fat low and strength high.

  9. #8
    Gym ratt/Part-time pimp LAM's Avatar
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    Re: Just got done reading "Pumping Iron"... it contradicts what you all preach here

    Originally posted by ADebar
    [B If Arnold had such great success with extremely high reps, why can't the average weightlifter?

    Thanks. [/B]
    the key world being average. Arnold or any other IFBB pro does not have average genetics. when you combine a superior genetic profile with AS and strict training and diet the result is a far from average physique...

  10. #9
    fat and small Blood&Iron's Avatar
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    Try the routines for yourself and see what happens. I suspect after a week or two, you'll start feeling like you were run over by a semi. Or the routine (although I'm doubtful) might work. Stranger things have happened.

    High-volume routines can work. Generally, there are more intelligent (and effective and efficient) ways to approach training, though. More volume (up to a point) is better. But the levels of volume Arnold used were just insane.

    While such routines might have worked for Arnold and others of his era, you should remember that most people AREN'T Arnold Schwarzenegger. Incredible genetics coupled with drug-use can allow one to train with volumes that will incapacitate most folks.

    We tend to think of Sisyphus as a tragic hero, condemned by the gods to shoulder his rock sweatily up the mountain, and again up the mountain, forever. The truth is that Sisyphus is in love with the rock. He cherishes every roughness and every ounce of it. He talks to it, sings to it. It has become the mysterious Other. He even dreams of it as he sleepwalks upward. Life is unimaginable without it, looming always above him like a huge gray moon. He doesnít realize that at any moment he is permitted to step aside, let the rock hurtle to the bottom, and go home.

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  11. #10
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    Actually, Bruce believed in high reps for only abdominal and calf exercises. He kept most exercises in the 6-12 reps per set range.

  12. #11
    Mannequin's Lover
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    Plus, steriod information was not as extensively researched as it is today. Once people saw some of the side affects from what GH does to you, some, not all, really thought twice about what they were getting themselves into. Arnold's physique was perfect back in the day, and it is still considered a legendary look. Arnold's training today would be perceved as "over training." But back in the day, those things worked for him. I doubt Arnold's calfs could compare to Dorian Yates calfs.

    Don't get me wrong, a lot of Arnold's philosphies still live today, especially in terms of how arm development goes, but that book was published back in 1974. Some of those theories aren't valid today, after extensive research. It goes to say, Dorian Yates training doesn't work for everyone. His low rep high poundages worked for him.

  13. #12
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    I don't think Arnold will even mention steriods let alone change the laws. Its just not a good political move.

  14. #13
    The Truth
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    Originally posted by ElPietro
    Well if you want to train like a pro, you have to inject like one too.
    I'm sure Arnold was tired as hell after every workout, I'm sure he didn't feel like he could do another rep but he still did.

    I think high volume and high frequency works, if you're too much of a pussy to get past the pain, then you can't reap the benefits. Obviously most guys aren't going to be the size of a pro bodybuiler with low volume, medium volume, or high if they juice or if they dont...

    Arnold still would've been big if he didn't juice.

  15. #14
    Wannabebig New Member HahnB's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Tru


    I'm sure Arnold was tired as hell after every workout, I'm sure he didn't feel like he could do another rep but he still did.

    I think high volume and high frequency works, if you're too much of a pussy to get past the pain, then you can't reap the benefits. Obviously most guys aren't going to be the size of a pro bodybuiler with low volume, medium volume, or high if they juice or if they dont...

    Arnold still would've been big if he didn't juice.
    Your going to overtrain your muscles if you workout like a pro body builder without juicing and taking a ****load of supps-that's as simple as it gets.
    My brother and I were brutal. I once chased him around the house with a spoon that I put on the burner. I burned that little pricks leg. -sharkall2003

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  16. #15
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    Why?

    I might not grow as insanely as them but why do you think I won't grow?

  17. #16
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    Because there's an optimal balance between workload and the body's growth/repair mechanisms.

    With the volume that high for too long, you won't be growing much.
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  18. #17
    Wannabebig New Member HahnB's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Tru
    Why?

    I might not grow as insanely as them but why do you think I won't grow?
    Say it with me this time, o-v-e-r-t-r-a-i-n-i-n-g
    My brother and I were brutal. I once chased him around the house with a spoon that I put on the burner. I burned that little pricks leg. -sharkall2003

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  19. #18
    Bodybuilding Mythbuster
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    Originally posted by Tru


    I'm sure Arnold was tired as hell after every workout, I'm sure he didn't feel like he could do another rep but he still did.

    I think high volume and high frequency works, if you're too much of a pussy to get past the pain, then you can't reap the benefits. Obviously most guys aren't going to be the size of a pro bodybuiler with low volume, medium volume, or high if they juice or if they dont...

    Arnold still would've been big if he didn't juice.

    And if even Arnold was tired after every workout (and I have read several interviews in which he claims he was exhausted) how do you think you would feel? Remember Arnold had superior genetics AND was on gear. Even with that he was exhausted. A natural lifter would likely suffer some form of serious injury in addition to overtraining.

    So you think high volume and high frequency work? Instead of just thinking "well Arnold did it so it must work", apply his advice to your own body. Do this for 3-4 months. Then come back and tell us how well it worked.

    As for your last sentence maybe. But it is just as likely that he would have been a lot smaller (then his orginal size BEFORE juicing) due to severe overtraining. It was quite likely it was the steriods (coupled with his incredible genetics) that enabled him to recover from these training routines he used.

  20. #19
    The Truth
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    "Because there's an optimal balance between workload and the body's growth/repair mechanisms.

    With the volume that high for too long, you won't be growing much."

    But WHY is it overtraining? Please explain...

    How do we even know what the optimal balance is? Nearly every article on the web is just the writers opinion (usually under 200lbs not even cut aka not a tru bodybuilder) of some scientific study that doesn't control the experiment at all... so it produces the results the author wanted to write about.

    I have been doing this type of routine for about a month and I'm loving it. I'm extremely tired, arms shaking, incredibly sore but I love it. Obviously he would've been smaller without steroids, he would've never reached his juice size through low volume training; had he done that, we probably would've never heard of him.
    Last edited by Tru; 08-10-2003 at 06:56 AM.

  21. #20
    WBB's Juggernaut/Liason BigCorey75's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Tru
    "Because there's an optimal balance between workload and the body's growth/repair mechanisms.

    With the volume that high for too long, you won't be growing much."

    But WHY is it overtraining? Please explain...

    here ya go,

    there is an old saying that goes, "there is no over training, just under eating and under sleeping". the amount you can train before you hit over training is in relation to how much rest and food you can get.

    now im sure if all a drug free lifter did was lift weights then eat and sleep for the rest of the day im sure he may get away with the super high volumes. but we have things we need to do called "lives" plus the human body is not designed to really naturally sleep for over 10 hours a day. and i dont care how big your apetite you can only eat so much in a day.

    now the reason im saying this is because muscle is built at home while on rest, when the muscle is resting repairing and recovering and growing. now the harder you train the more time you need to repair. and if your not fully recovered by the time you do your next workout it will only tear the muscle down that much more. then after you do this over and over your muscle actually begins to shrink and you lose strength. this is when you hit over training


    steroids allow people to recover much faster so thats why a juicer can handle a higher volume of a workout because they can recover much faster.

    thats is why its called over training.
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  22. #21
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    Originally posted by BigCorey75


    here ya go,

    there is an old saying that goes, "there is no over training, just under eating and under sleeping". the amount you can train before you hit over training is in relation to how much rest and food you can get.

    now im sure if all a drug free lifter did was lift weights then eat and sleep for the rest of the day im sure he may get away with the super high volumes. but we have things we need to do called "lives" plus the human body is not designed to really naturally sleep for over 10 hours a day. and i dont care how big your apetite you can only eat so much in a day.

    now the reason im saying this is because muscle is built at home while on rest, when the muscle is resting repairing and recovering and growing. now the harder you train the more time you need to repair. and if your not fully recovered by the time you do your next workout it will only tear the muscle down that much more. then after you do this over and over your muscle actually begins to shrink and you lose strength. this is when you hit over training


    steroids allow people to recover much faster so thats why a juicer can handle a higher volume of a workout because they can recover much faster.

    thats is why its called over training.
    That's hugely over simplifying a very complex issue.

    Overtraning is not related to food intake or necessarily to lack of rest, nor is it relateed to the amount of trauma the muscle endured.

    When you lose strenght is not because your muscles shrink but necause your male hormones droped significantly and your nervous system is shot. Your immune system also goes down.

  23. #22
    The Truth
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    Here's a snippet from the HST website..

    "When you lift weights, you cause damage to your muscles. This is often referred to as "microtrauma". Microtrauma involves the tearing and shearing of delicate protein structures within your muscle cells. This may sound bad but in reality it is necessary for the initiation of growth after your workout.

    This microtrauma may be expected to require you to postpone your next workout until your muscles are back to normal. It is this logic that your average personal trainer will use when he/she tells you to wait, sometimes a full week, before training the same body part again. Recent research however is showing us that putting off your next workout until your muscles have "fully recovered" may not be necessary or even desirable!1,2,3 In a study performed at the University of Alabama4, two groups of subjects performed the same periodized resistance training routine either once per week or three times per week. The results showed that muscle mass increases were greater in the three workout per week group, compared to the one workout per week group. In addition, the strength increases in this group were on average 40% greater! So what does this mean to you? It means the fear of overtraining, which sometimes verges on paranoia, may be preventing you from getting the most gains you can in the gym.
    References:

    1) Nosaka K, Clarkson P.M. Muscle damage following repeated bouts of high force eccentric exercise. Med. Sci. Sports Exrc., 27(9):1263-1269,1995

    2) Smith LL., Fuylmer MG., Holbert D., McCammon MR., Houmard JA., Frazer DD., Nsien E., Isreal RG. The impact of repeated bout of eccentric exercise on muscular strength, muscle soreness and creatine kinase. Br J Sp Med 28(4):267-271, 1994

    3) T.C. Chen, Taipei Physical Education College, and S.S. Hsieh, FACSM,. The effects of a seven-day repeated eccentric training on recovery from muscle damage. Med. Sci. Sports Exrc. 31(5 Supp) pp. S71, 1999

    4) McLester JR., Bishop P., & Guilliams M. Comparison of 1 and 3 day per week of equal volume resistance training in experienced subjects. Med. Sci. Sports Exrc. 31(5 Supp) pp.S117 1999

    5) Curto MA., Fisher MM. The effect of single vs. Multiple sets of resistance exercise on strength in trained males. Med. Sci. Sports Exrc. 31(5 Supp) pp.S114, 1999"


    High volume doesn't mean you don't get rest. You tear down the muscle as much as possible. Then you rest 2 days, then do it again. Rest 2 days, do it again. Rest 3 days, do it again.

  24. #23
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    i forgot to mention that the author states that he NEVER saw arnold or any of his fellow bodybuilders taking steroids. he acts like it was only a small percentage of BBs and he never witnessed it. i'm wondering how this author spent so much friggin time with these BBs and never witnessed them juicing? maybe he was just lying to bring some credibilty back to the sport back then.

    lying to build credibilty... lol

  25. #24
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    I agree a litle bit that if all you did was lift you could do more volume. Lift, sleep, lay on the beach.

  26. #25
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    Originally posted by ADebar
    i forgot to mention that the author states that he NEVER saw arnold or any of his fellow bodybuilders taking steroids. he acts like it was only a small percentage of BBs and he never witnessed it. i'm wondering how this author spent so much friggin time with these BBs and never witnessed them juicing? maybe he was just lying to bring some credibilty back to the sport back then.

    lying to build credibilty... lol
    He never saw them juicing because its a private thing in the bathroom with a needle and their a$$.

    Do you really want to see Arnold, or any other bodybuilder for that matter, stick a needle in their a$$?
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