The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
    Newd poster SquareHead's Avatar
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    Training for hypertrophy

    While designing my routine should I base my weight's to be lifted off of my one rep max? Like say 2 sets @ 80% of one rep max or ? How do some of you decide on your weight and rep scale. As stated before hypertrophy is the main goal. Thanks for the help.

    *edit

    what a n00b... Here is more info. I am looking to fill in the following routine.

    Day 1) chest

    Day 2) back

    Day 3) Quads

    Day 4) calves

    Day 5) shoulder

    Day 6) hams and lower back

    Day 7) rest
    Last edited by SquareHead; 09-03-2003 at 08:19 PM.
    Old Journal


    " I'd give up a pinky or a toe or something I don't need those"
    -PwrMajt:

    "Remember, as long as you don't kick them in the head or use a weapon, it's only a misdemeanor." -JustinASU

    I nominate this thread for the Tim Nissen Award! -El P

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  3. #2
    Feed me weird things. fuzz's Avatar
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    www.hsnhst.com

    Use HST. Its very good for hypertrophy.

  4. #3
    Newd poster SquareHead's Avatar
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    I want to use a split like I outlined above for a while. I have been getting bored with 3 days a week.
    Old Journal


    " I'd give up a pinky or a toe or something I don't need those"
    -PwrMajt:

    "Remember, as long as you don't kick them in the head or use a weapon, it's only a misdemeanor." -JustinASU

    I nominate this thread for the Tim Nissen Award! -El P

  5. #4
    Feed me weird things. fuzz's Avatar
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    If you want to use a split, I would recommend doing upper/lower/rest, to keep frequency up. Hitting a body part once a week is really not desirable for hypertrophy.

  6. #5
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    Re: Training for hypertrophy

    Originally posted by SquareHead

    Day 1) chest

    Day 2) back

    Day 3) Quads

    Day 4) calves

    Day 5) shoulder

    Day 6) hams and lower back

    Day 7) rest

    That looks horrible

  7. #6
    Wannabebig New Member
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    Re: Re: Training for hypertrophy

    Originally posted by D&G



    That looks horrible
    how u figure that dude?

    i dont think u can argue with 90% of pros using once a week for each bodypart. in fact, where you coming from? MOST people use once a week...

    in fact for many smaller muscles like delts tris and bis, u train them once with compound movements, say for bis on back day, and then when u isolate them another day, u train them again, so in fact these muscles get hit twice a week.
    HARDCORE!

  8. #7
    Wannabebig New Member
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    Re: Re: Training for hypertrophy

    Originally posted by D&G



    That looks horrible
    how u figure that?
    HARDCORE!

  9. #8
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    Re: Re: Re: Training for hypertrophy

    Originally posted by Crazee_786


    i dont think u can argue with 90% of pros using once a week for each bodypart.

    The pro's!

    I could argue with everything they do, like not have full time jobs, take lots of drugs etc. etc. don't think for one second the pro's mean jack **** when it comes to how YOU should train, they are on another planet altogether from average people.

    I never said there was anything wrong with once a week per bodypart, this particular routine is horrible because there are too many days per week and because there is going to be way too much overlap, who really does a whole day for calves when trying to get hypertrophy thats just a waste of recovery ability.

    What's he going to do on leg day for example, if he squats then he's going to severely limit his back and hamstring/lower back day. If he deadlifts on hamstring/lower back day that's going to overlap with his back/quad day. He's looking at up to three seperate lower back beatings per day on top of all the other stuff.

    Training six days in a row is suicide unless you can sleep 15 hours every night and pack away calories by the thousand. It would require superhuman recovery abilitly, you grow when your out of the gym resting and nourishing muscles, going into the gym again and again when you still need to recover is going to batter the CNS, you won;t have a hope of gaining, you'll be lucky to maintain.

    The WBB routines, HST, DFHT are all sensible options I'd recommend looking into those before getting into the counter-productive more is better attitude.

  10. #9
    Wannabebig New Member
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    ok lets say i increase frequency of workouts for bodyparts

    that would mean I would have to lower volume obviously, other wise I would be doing double of what I would do on a once a week split.

    whats the optimal volume per bodypart to do then on increased frequency workouts?

    also why is more frequent workouts better for HYPERTOPHY and not things like strength etc
    HARDCORE!

  11. #10
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    You would 'probably' need to drop the volume it just depends on what you are doing.

    There is no optimal volume - it comes down to your recovery ability, maybe your a lazy student who sleeps 10 hours per night and sits around all day. Maybe you've got three young kids in the house running around and you barely manage 7 hours sleep on a good night, your recovery ability and circumstance decides the amount of work you do in the gym, only you can find out what is optimal for you. The only thing I would say is to err on the side of caution, undertraining is better than overtraining and less is usually better.

  12. #11
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    there's also the idea that while your muscles are getting a rest when you don't train them specificly, your cns and organs are still having to work overtime as you workout. Your liver and kideney's are having to filter out all the by products and such, it would be better to have more off days.
    Height-5' 7"
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  13. #12
    Newd poster SquareHead's Avatar
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    Re: Re: Training for hypertrophy

    Originally posted by D&G



    That looks horrible
    Thanks. lol

    I am not really big on blanket statements. Like some routines wont work and some will, high volume over a long week wont work, statments like that. I am actually experimenting with different styles. I have done hst (all though improperly) for 2 cycles and gotten some great results. I am now seeing how my body responds to higher work loads spread through out the week. I will also do this for the equal amount as the the two cycles of HST. After I will compare my results of the two routines and see what my body best reacts to. I under stand that it is common wisdom that a routine like this would be overstraining. At one time it That's fine and Ill find out. I have nothing but time on my hands. Add to that while using HST I got very bored as I was not in they gym nearly as much as I would like to be. In my journal I asked HY and others for some ideas for my next split and I liked this one. As I appreciate your eloquently and tactfully put views I was really more interested in a good way to decide the weight for my work sets. Any help there would be greatly appreciate. Like should I base it off of my max one rep or go more for what ever weight I can move for a certain amount of reps.
    Old Journal


    " I'd give up a pinky or a toe or something I don't need those"
    -PwrMajt:

    "Remember, as long as you don't kick them in the head or use a weapon, it's only a misdemeanor." -JustinASU

    I nominate this thread for the Tim Nissen Award! -El P

  14. #13
    Gonnabebig Member JuniorMint6669's Avatar
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    Sorry about those guys jacking your thread

    To answer your question, I would recommend working in the 6-8 rep range, for one or two working sets per excercise. Whatever weight you can lift at that rep/set scheme, and of course aiming for progression as often as possible.

  15. #14
    The Tuna Tempter
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    Add to that while using HST I got very bored as I was not in they gym nearly as much as I would like to be.
    Using HST principles you can train twice a day if you have the time! If you've got plenty time on your hands, then why wouldn't you use HST. As you said, you're training for hypertrophy.

    Using that split, you probably are setting yourself up for burnout, especially if you're training with '100% intensity'.
    Life's too short to be small

  16. #15
    Banned Big John's Avatar
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    Must agree with D&G on most of what he's saying, growth comes with REST not constant visits to the METAL SHED. Big J.

  17. #16
    Senior Member WiNgS's Avatar
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    Re: Training for hypertrophy

    Originally posted by SquareHead
    While designing my routine should I base my weight's to be lifted off of my one rep max? Like say 2 sets @ 80% of one rep max or ? How do some of you decide on your weight and rep scale. As stated before hypertrophy is the main goal. Thanks for the help.

    *edit

    what a n00b... Here is more info. I am looking to fill in the following routine.

    Day 1) chest

    Day 2) back

    Day 3) Quads

    Day 4) calves

    Day 5) shoulder

    Day 6) hams and lower back

    Day 7) rest
    bro thats not even a HST routine.... HST is about hitting the same bodypart every 48 hours
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  18. #17
    zen idiot Scott S's Avatar
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    That's the point -- he's trying something DIFFERENT than HST.

  19. #18
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    I can't understand people who want to spend 5, 6, 7 days per week in the gym, when I train I'm totally exhausted, I wake up the next morning and know I've trained, not just DOMS but an all over feeling of taking a battering, all I want to do is eat and let the muscles heal the thought of training again seems ridiculous. I would never go over 3 45 minute sessions per week. To train hard you have to be ready mentally and physically if you train too often your just going to dilute the effort in the gym to the point where your just following a routine rather than treating every workout like an important one-off opportunity.

  20. #19
    crosstraining domination arjun's Avatar
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    D&G: People progress differently, and need different amounts of time to rest. Maybe you can take steps to minimalize your rest period.

    Stretching before workouts loosens you up, but stretching after relieves lactic acid, and will in turn reduce how sore you get afterwards.

    Also, do you train your whole body each time you workout? If you target different muscle groups each day you can train every day and still give each muscle 2-3 days rest in between sessions. Add this with proper nutrition, and any other ways you can use to relieve soreness, and your rest periods get even shorter.

    But again, like i said above, everyone is different, i know people who train once or twice a week and are sore and need rest every day they have off. There are also people who train hard every day, make lots of progress, are never really that sore, and dont need much rest.

    Dont be so quick to assume that people arent getting a good workout if they arent hurtinge for days after. Plus training constantly with minimal rest will condition your muscles and let them adapt to it. But this is an athelete talking, as ive said many times before, training for hypertrophy is a more delicate art than training for strength.
    I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve

    Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.
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  21. #20
    Senior Member
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    Originally posted by arjun
    [B]D&G: People progress differently, and need different amounts of time to rest. Maybe you can take steps to minimalize your rest period.
    I already do.

    Stretching before workouts loosens you up, but stretching after relieves lactic acid, and will in turn reduce how sore you get afterwards.
    I know, I said I 'feel' battered the next morning, I don't usually get a great deal of soreness.

    Also, do you train your whole body each time you workout? If you target different muscle groups each day you can train every day and still give each muscle 2-3 days rest in between sessions.
    Your looking at it too simplified, muscle recovery isn't the issue, a muscle recovers within a few days, its the tendons, ligaments, CNS, etc. that you have to work with, your body is a unit all the muscles are interlinked its not a collection of individually operating muscles they all work on the same neural pathways, if you overtrain one muscle it affects the whole body.

    There are also people who train hard every day, make lots of progress, are never really that sore, and dont need much rest.
    That's called favourable genetics.

    Dont be so quick to assume that people arent getting a good workout if they arent hurtinge for days after.
    I said/assumed nothing of the sort.

  22. #21
    crosstraining domination arjun's Avatar
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    Ah you are right, i did not have enough data to get very detailed. If we arent talking about general soreness then my tune will change.

    Favorable for who? If you do less training with more rest and still progress i think you are getting the upper hand of the deal. Diferent people have different requirements their body demands, it is not always black and white. But again, you said/assumed nothing of the sort, i am just going along on the subject.

    If you overtrain a muscle it effects the body, yes, but training one group of muscles one day and another the next day will not have negative effects on your body. That right there isnt just an athelete talking, most professional bodybuilders isolate muscle groups and train them seperately, instead of focusing on the whole body in one session.
    I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve

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  23. #22
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    Originally posted by arjun
    If you overtrain a muscle it effects the body, yes, but training one group of muscles one day and another the next day will not have negative effects on your body.
    That's a sweeping statement, if you overtrain chest on monday your whole body is affected when you turn up to the gym on tuesday to do legs. It depends on what you do and how you do it. I'm not saying don't train two days in a row, if your an unemployed student who has nothing to do all day but eat and sleep then your training frequency can be much higher, most people though have full time jobs, families and other commitements that have to be worked around.

    That right there isnt just an athelete talking, most professional bodybuilders isolate muscle groups and train them seperately, instead of focusing on the whole body in one session.
    I hate it when professional bodybuilders are brought into the equation, they are so far removed from the average person they don't deserve to be mentioned, their recovery is so far above and beyond that of a normal person, I assume in my posts that the person is genetically average and natural for that person training 6 days per week a different muscle group every day is very likely to be pushing things too far because of the overall stress on the recuperative abilities of the body. By average person I'm talking a real life person who has a life, a job, kids, etc. etc.

  24. #23
    Still Plugging Away -TIM-'s Avatar
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    Re: Re: Re: Re: Training for hypertrophy

    Originally posted by D&amp;G
    Training six days in a row is suicide unless you can sleep 15 hours every night and pack away calories by the thousand.
    True 'Dat. That's going to run him into the ground after 2 weeks. I played catch up and ended up cramming in 4 straight days of hitting it heavy two consecutive weeks and it drained me.

    D&G may be right about the overlapping as well. You are going to hit your back three days a week. That's really not sufficient time for recovery. You could combine Back and Hams into one day. Your lower back will be hit doing deads (assuming you're not doing them on leg day). I personally train calves on chest day. Then they also get hit during leg day with squats. It's worked pretty well for me.
    Best way to cheat on deadlifts...

    Stand there for a few minutes, then pace back and forth a lot, huff and puff, wait until everybody's looking. Approach the bar. Back off. Approach it again. Back off. Get some water. Chalk up. Approach the bar again. Then spray some more chalk around. Wait until people start losing interest. When nobody's looking, pick it a little off the floor, and slam it down. Jump up and yell "LIGHT WEIGHT BABY". Then give high fives all around. - Belial

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