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Thread: Muscular Work and TUT (was "bicep help...")

  1. #1
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    Muscular Work and TUT (was "bicep help...")

    Originally posted by neo

    And yes, I have tried just about every method known to man including everything from HIT, to GVT, to POWERLIFTING, to 8 x 8, to Max-OT, to everything that King, Simmons, Poliquin, Staley, Telle, Inclendon, etc, has put out.

    And I never said my method was SUPERIOR to all others (man you guys are tiresome)!...I mentioned twice already that there are many good training methods out there and not just one all-encompassing theory on how to train. If anything it is POWERMAN that is insiuating that, not me! Is POWERMANS, CHRIS'S, PAUL'S, OR PIETRO'S training the only effective methods? No, but they are probably effective though. That is why you must incorporate the best of all sound methods into your own program.

    Reading through this, I realize that I didn't exactly address what I meant, and I feel I should do so.

    He was seeing me as arguing a method v. a method, as if I were saying "HIT" v. "Max-OT"

    That's not at ALL what I was doing. My whole point was that yes, there is an over-arching theory that describes growth-- cumulative muscular work. All of the individual methods he listed all work because they fulfill that requisite of total work done by the muscle. They derive from it.

    By work, I don't mean the simple W = F*d formula of physics-- I'm referring to the internal work done by the muscle: fundamentally, ATP expenditure.

    The reason I snapped on TUT so hard is because time is only one half of the equation. Muscular work is determined Rate of Work * Duration of Work. TUT theory, as he was representing it, only accounts of the duration. It totally disregards the rate (which is directly proportional to the muscular tension, and thereby the external load), and as such its is *very* incorrect to blanketly state that 40-60 seconds of TUT is "optimal" for growth.

    He actually pointed out that very fallacy when he stated that he used lower and higher TUT's and still got results.

    Back to the point at hand, though-- the cumulative muscular work required to cause growth can be achieved in a lot of ways.

    A simple example:

    Person A does 8 sets of 3. Person B does 4 sets of 6. Person C does 2 sets of 15. All three are working fairly close to capacity, and all of these protocols have in some way or another been shown to cause growth.

    Person A has done 24 total lifts, lets say 90% intensity. B has 24 lifts, say 80%. C has 30, say 65%.

    Person A has achieved a relative workload of 21.6 (24 * 0.9). B has 19.2. C has 19.5.

    As you can see, there's a wide difference in the number of sets (7, 4, 2), and the reps (3, 6, 15), but the relative workloads are all very similar.

    Thus explaining the ability to cause growth.

    Now as with all my mathematical treatments, this is very simplified and probably has a few errors in it....Additionally, there are other factors to consider, such as eccentric action, level of fatigue, and so forth, but the basic concept holds. If you achieve enough muscular work, you'll cause growth.
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  2. #2
    HomeYield WillKuenzel's Avatar
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    Keeping it simple for this simpleton, everything else kept equal, would Person A see better total gains just based on the simple fact that he's done more total work (keeping it very simple, lets say just for that day)?
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  3. #3
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    i do my last set per body part using a highish TUT, i cycle the TUT increasing the time by 5 secs each week for 4 weeks, though using less weight for higher tuts.
    but when i go back to the lower end of TUt i can increase the workload and use more weight for time X than i did 4 weeks ago. therefore my use of TUT works as I increase the workload as powerman mentions above. the time itself is not the only factor, but each time I do it i use mroe weight.
    my exprience - joined gym 10 years ago, 6 1/2 years hard weight training exprience.

  4. #4
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    Possibly.

    The reason I can't say for sure is that there's something to be said for eccentric action and for metabolic activity.

    However, the load used to achieve 8 sets of 3, assuming the cumulative work is present, would likely be enough to cause superior growth in that case, assuming that A, B, and C are being used by the exact same person in the exact same state of training, on the exact same exercise.
    Vin Diesel has a fever.. and the only prescription is more cowbell.

    Budiak: That girl I maced
    Budiak: macked
    Budiak: heh maced
    Budiak: I wish

    ShmrckPmp5: a good thing people can't fire guns through the computer...your ass would have been shot years ago

    Y2A 47: youre smooth as hell
    Y2A 47: thats why you get outta tickets, and into panties

    galileo: you're a fucking beast and I hate you
    galileo: hate

    assgrabbers are never subtile, they will grabb ass whereever they go,public or not, I know the type, because I am one. - Rock

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