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Thread: Longetivity and safety !

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    Senior Member Gavan's Avatar
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    Longetivity and safety !

    I never looked seriously at this aspect of training but today...

    I would like opinions about the Deadlift because it's certainly the more dangerous exercise (even if it's the most effective)
    I know DEADLIFT is the KING ! I love dead but I also think Deadlift are very dangerous ! I'm in my 20s and I'm sure I'll regret heavy deadlift (150-200kg) if I have pain my whole life because of it !

    I'm more oriented toward bodybuilding and I think we can build big traps/harmstrings/lower back without heavy deadlift (conventional, sumo or stiff legged)

    For Traps : Shrugs
    For Harmstring and lower back : Leg Curl and Hyper Extensions
    OR STRAIGHT legged deadlift as suggest by Dr.Ken and Arthur Jones (two specialists of the lower back and spinal erector)

    Guys I'm afraid to do the Straight Legged Deadlift, I did it yesterday (15cm from the floor) 20x71kg (easy) but so many guys told me I would kill my back.... I'm a fan of Arthur Jones but it won't protect my back

    your OPINION ?
    Last edited by Gavan; 10-08-2003 at 04:40 PM.
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  2. #2
    Milk, Milk, Milk JeffWillConquer's Avatar
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    If you do them right, they won't kill your back, or so I hear. Make sure your form is right. I definately wouldn't want to live my life with back pain.
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    One crazy MOFO/Mail man
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    In deads it is very hard to cheat for any real period of time. Unlike bench (bouncing off the chest) or bb curls or what ever. This is why most "gym rats" will tell you not do do DLs IMO. Lift what you can lift don't lift what you want to and you should be fine. (Assuming you have good form) Once your ego takes over and loads the bar for you it is your own damn fault.
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    zen idiot Scott S's Avatar
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    :withstupi

    Start really light, and only move up the weight when you can keep good form doing so. Keep your back straight. When doing SLDL's it may be best to do rack pulls instead. That way, you can be sure you're not flexing your back to be able to reach the bar. Hope this helps.

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    back at it Beast's Avatar
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    Re: Longetivity and safety !

    Originally posted by Gavan
    Guys I'm afraid to do the Straight Legged Deadlift, I did it yesterday (15cm from the floor) 20x71kg (easy) but so many guys told me I would kill my back.... I'm a fan of Arthur Jones but it won't protect my back

    your OPINION ?
    I actually find SLDL's safer, just because I find myself being safer with the weight I use. In DL's, I'm always trying to load on the weight and get it up, because it's such a powerful exercise.

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    Senior Member Gavan's Avatar
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    The problem is that even if you work with good form there is a big compression of the spine !!! And there is no nerves on the lumbar disks so you cannot know if you are killing them or not !

    you know only when it's too late !!

    I'll try the Straight Legged Deadlift but I'm not 100% sure it's safer than regular Deadlift !
    Gain Muscles ? Overload !
    Lose Fat ? Input < Output
    Genetic determines your potential
    Chins : 10x106kg Dips 10x109kg

  7. #7
    Toughest Man in the World Bruise Brubaker's Avatar
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    Deadlift isn't the most dangerous exercise at all, if we base on the same principles you said, squat would be much dangerous as there is much more pressure on the lower back as the weigth is closer to it, and there is also a lot of pression on the knees.

    Olympic cleans would be also more dangerous, almost combining a deadlift, a squat and an upright row (very basic exercises comparison).

    The spine can take a lot pression when correctly aligned. I'm sure you could hold more weight in your hands (using straps by example) while standing up than what you will deadlift in 2 years.

  8. #8
    Wounded Deadlifter ryan1117's Avatar
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    I'm pretty sure bench press is statistically the most dangerous exercise.
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  9. #9
    Senior Member Gavan's Avatar
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    I don't bench anymore I think Dips are better (heavier weight bigger range of motion) and safer. Add Standing Press and you realy don't need bench press if you are a Bodybuilder.

    I do Full Squat to avoid the use of heavy weights (anyway my squat is very weak so that's not a problem yet)
    You are right Squat and Dead place a big stress on spine. Most people here are young and will not suffer from back problem now. But what will happend in 10 years ?!

    "I'm sure you could hold more weight in your hands (using straps by example)"

    Yes probably but the weight is not directly supported by the spine while heavy shrugs.
    Gain Muscles ? Overload !
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  10. #10
    zen idiot Scott S's Avatar
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    I'd think JM presses could be pretty fatal if you don't have a spotter. All that weight right over your neck!

  11. #11
    Toughest Man in the World Bruise Brubaker's Avatar
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    "I'm sure you could hold more weight in your hands (using straps by example)"

    Yes probably but the weight is not directly supported by the spine while heavy shrugs.
    The weight is not directly supported by the spine while deadlifting too. Your lower back muscles are correctly contracted --> good spinal alignment --> similar to when standing up. In fact, I'm not sure of all this, but can someone really hurt his lower back (I'm talking about the structure and all that, not the muscle itself) while keeping it straight?

  12. #12
    Senior Member Gavan's Avatar
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    Bruise if you keep your back straight but do super heavy partial... you might hurt your lumbar disks...
    Gain Muscles ? Overload !
    Lose Fat ? Input < Output
    Genetic determines your potential
    Chins : 10x106kg Dips 10x109kg

  13. #13
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    i think people who deadlift have less of a chance of gettin back pains...

  14. #14
    Ash "Money" Hegde Y2A's Avatar
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    I think working your way up doing deads/squats will strengthen your back. IMO, SLDL does put unnecessary stress on your lower back. Theres some similar lift, where you like thrust your @$$ back and the bar barely gets to your knees on the way down, which works your hammies with much less stress on your lower back. I dont know what its called...
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  15. #15
    One crazy MOFO/Mail man
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    Correct me if I am wrong but I don't think you do (nor do I) nearly enough weight to even remotly worry about the load placed on your spine. Well atleast when correctly aligned. As with anything if you are not going to lift heavy weights then you are not going to continue to grow, deadlifts or what ever else.
    w00t

  16. #16
    En botella whey! Max-Mex's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Y2A
    I think working your way up doing deads/squats will strengthen your back. IMO, SLDL does put unnecessary stress on your lower back. Theres some similar lift, where you like thrust your @$$ back and the bar barely gets to your knees on the way down, which works your hammies with much less stress on your lower back. I dont know what its called...
    Romanian Deadlift.

    As with any exercise, you can hurt yourself at anytime if you don't use proper form. With deads, it's important to get form down first then gradually move up in weight. This will let your muscles , tendons, & ligaments adapt to the stress. Once your body has gotten accustomed to the lift at ligther weights, then try moving up.

    IMO, I think you have to worry more about a hernia when doing dl's than hurting your lower back. Again, if you slowly add weight and use good form, your abdomnial muscles will get stronger as well.
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  17. #17
    En botella whey! Max-Mex's Avatar
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    Also, you have to really consider what deads do to your body as a whole. Sure they work legs, butt, back and traps, but that's not really the point. The point is how it affects your entire body. There have been many posts on this site about what happens when the body is stressed by lifts like deads and squats. I wish I could explain it all in detail but do a search and you'll see what I'm talking about.
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    I go to a chiropractor with a childhood back problem and he has no problems with me doing squats and deadlifts. What he does say is to incorporate lower back extensions to keep it strong never to compensate on form and go up in the weights very strongly. He also recommends a strong core of abs not just push ups for restricted definition but strength exercises like ab pull downs. He says over 10% of back problems can be prevented by having a strong ab core
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  19. #19
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    If the back is medically examined during the movement of a correctly performed set of deadlifts or squats then Im sure the exercise would be deemed entirely safe.
    The problem lies in doing heavy sets of deads and squats week in week out, year after year. Placing heavy loads on the spine will cause wear and tear and back pain in later life.
    The key is not to perform these exercises every week, even every second week maybe too much. I would say every third week and to maybe alternate between squats and DLs.

    Give your spine a break, let it rest a little

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