The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

It’s no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
    Wannabebig Member
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    Abs training question ...

    Been doing WBB routine 1 for several months months now and im happy with the results. I was 'cut' when I started from previous sports, but now im bigger, but slightly less cut. And this is giving me a problem with my abs. Basically Im not sure, but I think the muscles are getting too big in my abdoman.

    I train abs on monday with chest/back and friday with shoulders/arms. ON wednesday with legs I do lower back and obliques.

    For abs I do 3x6-8 weighted situps, 4x6-8 weighted crunches, 1x30 unweghted crunches, and 1x8-12 leg raises.

    I get a good burn from this and the lower back injury I had has not given me any objections.

    BUT im looking in the mirror and my abs stick out!! I cant see them as clearly because ive lost my cut, but they stick out further than my chest now if I relax. I look like a turtle took up residence beneath the skin of my stomach!

    Is twice a week too much for abs? Or is this normal? I look ok when tensing the stomach but who the hell wants to walk around like that? When I cut will I look ok?


    I used to train badly, doing 3x100 unweighted crunches and 3x30 leg raises, and i trained 3 times a week. My stomach was hard and flat. Training higher weight with lower reps and twice a week and my stomach is hard and ... not flat ...


    Advice? Once a week? Perhaps abs monday, lower back wednesday and obliques on friday? Or just stop worrying and do a cut?

    ps. Ive had the same effect on my ass and loving it

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  3. #2
    is numero uno Saint Patrick's Avatar
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    I'd say drop to only once a week, and, depending on your bf% start cutting. See how they look once your bf% is lower.
    Age:30
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  4. #3
    Mostly healed up! PizDoff's Avatar
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    Your ass sticks out further than your chest?

    Hmmmm ok...



    I have the same thing, I'm just trying to work my chest more now so that grows out. When is your cardio?

  5. #4
    Wannabebig Member
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    I stopped doing cardio a few months ago after an accident left my feet and legs damaged. Will probably be another 1 or 2 months until I can do anything cardio based. Then it will probably be on all the off training days, ie 4 days a week. And it will be between 3 to 60 hours depending on the snow conditions
    6 ft tall

    1st Aug : 172lbs - Seriously cut
    5th dec : 193 lbs - lost definition around waist. Slight loss of mobility in mid section.
    24th feb: 211 lbs - Has anyone seen my abs? I seem to have lost them.
    29th April : 200 lbs and Ive seen sightings of my abs!

  6. #5
    Wannabebig Member
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    All you need to do MorganB is cut down on your fat intake.
    With abs its more a case of diet than anything. Measure your body fat percentage, if its around 9% you should be able to get definition.
    Also, you don't need to use weights, that could alone be creating a mass problem. Your objective is form, not mass.
    If you were to train twice a week, doing just two simple exercises, tageting lower and upper abs, you would find that youd get results.
    Weights do work but only after your fat intake has been reduced and its better to use weights only when targeting upper abs.
    If using weights I recommend crunching on a 45 degree incline bench a couple of inches, pausing then repeat.
    Twisting and side cruches are not necessary.

  7. #6
    Wannabebig Member
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    Thanks for the input. I still have good definition, although not as good as a few months ago, but im now 100% sure I have increased mass on the abs. I am going to reduce the training a little I think.

    However im afraid side and twisting crunches are essential for me. Strength in my waist is important to me. Im more worried that at the current rate of growth my abs will be growing faster than the rest of me and make me look pregnant
    6 ft tall

    1st Aug : 172lbs - Seriously cut
    5th dec : 193 lbs - lost definition around waist. Slight loss of mobility in mid section.
    24th feb: 211 lbs - Has anyone seen my abs? I seem to have lost them.
    29th April : 200 lbs and Ive seen sightings of my abs!

  8. #7
    Wannabebig Member
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    You've kind of answered your own question there, in regards to your lack of cardio. If you're maintaining your previous calorific intake when you were doing a lot of sport/cardio, now you're not doing any CV training a % of those extra calories will most likely now be being converted and stored as fat.

    I think you'll find that when you 'cut' that the definition will start to return - in the meantime I'd certainly recommend some form of Cardio. Without knowing the full extent of your injuries, its hard to know what to suggest - possibly the rower, upper body cycle erogometer or a Versaclimber??

    As for specific ab training - you can't effectively seperate 'Upper' and 'Lower' abs. The Rectus Abdominus (the visible 'six-pack' muscle) is one muscle, basically stretching from the bottom of the rib cage and attaching to the top of the pelvis. Although certain exercises feel like they're stressing one side of the attachment more so, studies (which I'll try and dig out if anyones interested) have shown that activation of the muscle itself as a whole remains fairly similar - obviously some exercises more effectively hit the muscle than others. Why not try some exercises for other portions of the abdominal area like the transverse abdominus, such as stability ball work, planking etc? These will help tighten and firm underlying muscles, and add to the overall balance and stability of the core.

    To reiterate, I don't think theres anything specifically wrong with your ab routine - sounds pretty good to me. More likely a bodyfat issue - cutting or cardio should do the trick.

    Hope this helps.

  9. #8
    Wannabebig Member
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    My bf% is low, just not as low as it was when I started this (my first) bulking phase. I was actually too cut for my size. I looked kinda odd, with every single blood vessle on my abs showing. Might look good on a 200lb/6ft guy, but not on a 171lb/6ft guy But I can still see the muscles in my abs clearly, and a few of the major veins. But at 186lb I do look a little healthier.

    The problem is the belly sticking outwards (ie forwards). In fact because the muscles are larger the definition is still good , its just my midsection seems to be swelling. It could also be because over the months my intake of food has been slowly increasing. Perhaps im just pushing the muscles out with all this food But it doesnt seem to be fat. I have more fat, but not so it hides the muscle.

    BTW on the subject of cutting, as Ive never deliberately done one before, how often would you suggest? Every 5kg? Every few months? Whats the rule? Do you bulk for a month and cut for a month or is it more like 3 to 1? I see lots of advice on how to cut, but not how often
    6 ft tall

    1st Aug : 172lbs - Seriously cut
    5th dec : 193 lbs - lost definition around waist. Slight loss of mobility in mid section.
    24th feb: 211 lbs - Has anyone seen my abs? I seem to have lost them.
    29th April : 200 lbs and Ive seen sightings of my abs!

  10. #9
    bulking
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    I usually just start cutting before summer starts, or when I think I'm really starting to get too fat.

    Remember, you'll loose some muscle during your cut.

  11. #10
    Mostly healed up! PizDoff's Avatar
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    I stopped doing cardio a few months ago after an accident left my feet and legs damaged.
    Can you go swimming?

  12. #11
    Wannabebig Member
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    Possibly but im in no rush to get back to the cardio, certainly not until im 100% the ligaments in my foot are happy again. And I dont mind putting on some weight, as long as its more muscle than fat So this rest period is ok by me.

    Its the 3 months pregnant look im worried about
    6 ft tall

    1st Aug : 172lbs - Seriously cut
    5th dec : 193 lbs - lost definition around waist. Slight loss of mobility in mid section.
    24th feb: 211 lbs - Has anyone seen my abs? I seem to have lost them.
    29th April : 200 lbs and Ive seen sightings of my abs!

  13. #12
    Wannabebig Member
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    If you don't have a problem with definition and your fat intake is considerably low, then I'd recommend not using weights.
    Try low intensity ab workouts. And try higher intensity workouts on chest. You say you have a problem with your profile; your abs stick out too much, then you need to work the middle area of the pecs to comensate.
    You're probably already aware of this but just in case you're not, try close grip bench press or over the head pullovers with light weight and you'll hit the mid area of the chest (and Glutes too, with the pullovers).

    And thats not a bad idea with the swimming too. Swimmings also good for the skin. Cleans internally and externally at the same time.

  14. #13
    Senior Member
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    Originally posted by PizDoff
    Your ass sticks out further than your chest?

    Hmmmm ok...


    oooooh
    Last edited by mstar; 10-24-2003 at 04:29 AM.
    "It's all about quality, not quantity. That's not to say that the other programs won't work. But you should learn first how to use intensity to it's fullest. You will encounter a lot of programs throughout the internet. None will be productive if you can't lift with the proper intensity." - Maki

  15. #14
    Wannabebig Member
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    Originally posted by kingkong888
    If you don't have a problem with definition and your fat intake is considerably low, then I'd recommend not using weights.
    Try low intensity ab workouts.
    That might be what I need. Ive always done low intensity until I started trying to gain weight and came to these forums. The problem is I was doing 500reps per excercise, and doing 5 or 6 different excercises. My abs were hard and lean, but not large. All good except after a few years it had caused an irritation in my lower back. Repetetive motion problems. You cant win sometimes

    Originally posted by kingkong888
    And try higher intensity workouts on chest. You say you have a problem with your profile; your abs stick out too much, then you need to work the middle area of the pecs to comensate.

    You're probably already aware of this but just in case you're not, try close grip bench press or over the head pullovers with light weight and you'll hit the mid area of the chest (and Glutes too, with the pullovers).
    time.
    Close grip bench press? Should I do that instead of the wider grip or in addition?

    And light weight on the overhead pullovers? Can you explain why that works to build my chest? I dont do that excercise usually as I normally feel it in my upper back more than the chest. Plus I dont have a spotter and with the wieght I need to get resistance im serioulsy worried about squishing my head

  16. #15
    Wannabebig Member
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    Im just trying to work out how you managed to to 500 reps per exercise. I only do 15 reps of 3 sets with just 2 different exercises. And thats enough for me, providing I Do it twice a week. The reason your abs were hard and not large would probably have something to do with the fact that you might have been overtraining. You need to 'listen' to your body, take in the right amount of calories you burn after doing an ab workout, and rest. In an adverage ab workout I would say on adverage 200-300 calories would be burn as its not meant to be a very strenuous routeen. So Id recomend 400 calories to be on the safe side, in the form of both low and high glycemic foods, preferably liquid form.eg banana 250ml soymilk,4 eggs, and have a natural source of high glycemic food such as an apple.

    The close grip bench press should be done with the normal bechpress the only difference is should be half the weight and youd do it after the normal (heavier) bench.

    The pullovers should be done intead of the close grip bench. You do it on a decline bench (to create more resistance) and you use a barbell (closegrip). You dont go heavy because its for form not mass. You only need one mass excersise with the chest. This excersise also expands the ribcage.
    Always finish off with dips for lower chest and overall mass.

  17. #16
    Wannabebig Member
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    Cool thanks for the advice. I cant do the dips though, old shoulder injury

    As for doing 500+ reps on ab excercies causing overtraining: yes they did. In my back after several years I strained it so badly that it caused tension all the way up to my neck. I never gave it chance to rest. This website hasnt just helped me put weight back on (in the right places) the advice ive had here has helped several strained areas get better.

    btw the shoulder injury mentioned was caused my an accident, but aggravated by years of silly martial arts training excercises. You know the ones. A summer of training for bulk rather than for 'fitness' with advice from you guys and its almost 100% again. Just will be avoiding dips for the rest of my life I think.

    But it seems then that my ab routine is good, but i should only do it once a week, rather than twice. I guess I only do everything else once a week so why should abs be different
    6 ft tall

    1st Aug : 172lbs - Seriously cut
    5th dec : 193 lbs - lost definition around waist. Slight loss of mobility in mid section.
    24th feb: 211 lbs - Has anyone seen my abs? I seem to have lost them.
    29th April : 200 lbs and Ive seen sightings of my abs!

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