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  1. #1
    Powerlifting Stoner pastdoubt's Avatar
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    CKD Questions?

    What exactly is CKD? Is it a variation of the Atkins diet? Isn't it supposed to be dangerous? If not I think I would like to try it, where can I get information on it (on the WWW, I don't have any money to buy books )

  2. #2
    Bespoke Super Mod
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    "A + B + C = Success if, A = Hard Work, B = Hard Play, C = Keeping your mouth shut" -Albert
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  3. #3
    As I Am Paul Stagg's Avatar
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    Cyclical Ketogenic diet

    Sort of.

    It is only dangerous in the minds of uneducated nutritionists.
    Squats work better than supplements.
    "You know, if I thought like that, I'd never put more than one plate on the bar for anything, I'd never use bands or chains, I'd never squat to parallel or below, and I'd never let out the slightest grunt when I lift. At some point in your lifting career (assuming you're planning on getting reasonably strong and big), you're going to have to accept that most people think you are some kind of freak." -Sensei
    "You're wrong, and I have a completely irrelevant pubmed abstract that may or may not say so." - Belial
    I has a blog.
    I has a facebook.

  4. #4
    Senior Member TvR8oRage's Avatar
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    The Mr.X CKD Manual

    I would like to dedicate this to Bart, without him I would not be writing this nor would I be the person that I am today.
    So, you want to start a CKD. Now, what the hell is a CKD you ask? Well, a CKD (cyclo-ketonic-diet) is simply a diet that consists of two cycles: low/no-carbohydrates and high-carbohydrates. How do these two come together to actually make a diet, simply stated: they do, that’s it. But, to be serious. A Ketonic diet is something that we all hear from Atkins, which is basically High-Fat, Moderate-Protein and Low/No-Carbs. Yet, this type of diet, although very effective for the average Joe, is not sufficient for a bodybuilder’s (weightlifter’s) needs.
    Why? Well, once your muscle glycogen is depleted, your workouts become a pain in the ass, you are sluggish and muscle loss can occur. (due to the fact that no insulin is present in the system, there will be NO muscle gain while in Ketosis) Because, the main goal of Ketosis is to have no glycogen in the liver so glucagon can be released. (yada yada yada yada, well I don’t think anyone cares about the technical aspect, so I’ll get to the point)Basically, it all boils down to the following: Day 1-6 you eat High-Fat/Moderate-Protein/Low-No-Carbohydrates, then Day 7 you eat HIGH-GI carbohydrates and low-fat, in order to achieve supercompensation and refill muscle glycogen. (this will ensure quality training throughout every CKD cycle you do)
    Mr.X, can you please just shut-up and give us some information on setting up a CKD.
    YES, I can-------
    Setting up a CKD (6days Ketosis/1day Carb-Up)
    First-off, let’s figure out your BMR (basal-metabolic-rate). Take your weight and multiply it by 12=daily calorie intake without a deficit.
    (100lb person) Example: 100lb x 12cal= 1200cal…1200cal=BMR
    Everything I put forth will revolve in one way or another around your BMR, so listen up.
    6/1 ratio (6 days in ketosis/1 day carb-up)
    Figure out your BMR...(basal-metabolic-rate)=caloires needed to maintain current weight
    weight x 12=BMR....(EXAMPLE: 100lb x 12=1200 cal a day)
    Use the following fat/protein ratios w/ BMR deficit:

    Ketosis:
    Day Fat Protein BMR
    1 85% 15% -5%
    2 75% 25% -10%
    3 65% 35% -15%
    4 70% 30%
    5 70% 30% -10%
    6 65% 35% -15%
    7 (Carb-Up)** +30%
    **---I will go into detail on the carb-up later in the article---
    So, how do you calculate these percents and BMR. Well, let’s use a 200lb person as an example of this.

    EXAMPLE BASED ON 200lb PERSON:

    200lb. x 12cal=2400cal (BMR)
    Ketosis: Days 1-6:
    Day 1: 85%fat/15%protein-- BMR-5%

    2400cal (BMR) x .05=120cal (is 5% from BMR)

    2400cal (BMR) – 120 cal (5%deficit)=2280cal for day 1

    ---fat ratios for day 1---

    2280cal x .85 (that is 85% fat)=1938cal from fat

    Fat has 9 calories/gram

    1938cal divided by 9cal/gram=215g fat for day 1

    ---now we need the protein ratios for day 1---
    ,p>2280cal x .15(that is 15%protein)=342 cal from protein

    Protein has 4 calories/grams

    342cal divided by 4cal/gram=86 g protein for day 1

    Totals for Day-1: 215g fat/86g protein
    Now, you might ask, why is the protein so low? Because protein can keep you out of Ketosis and, remember, everyday you are in Ketosis, you are burning fat while preserving muscle because Ketones (hence the name Ketosis) are protein sparing. Protein can convert to glycogen at almost 58% efficiency, so you see why excess protein is a bad idea. Plus, strictly from a scientific standpoint, a person can maintain current muscle mass at merely a 15%protein ratio, while no muscle gain is possible, maintenance is a very feasible idea with these ratios.
    Day 2: 75%fat/25%protein-- BMR-10%

    2400cal (BMR) x .10=240cal (is 10% from BMR)

    2400cal (BMR) – 240 cal (10%deficit)=2160cal for day 2

    ---fat ratios for day 2---

    2160cal x .75 (that is 75% fat)=1620cal from fat

    Fat has 9 calories/gram

    1620cal divided by 9cal/gram=180g fat for day 2

    ---now we need the protein ratios for day 2---

    2160cal x .15(that is 15%protein)=324 cal from protein

    Protein has 4 calories/grams

    324cal divided by 4cal/gram=81 g protein for day 2

    Totals for Day-2: 180g fat/81g protein
    Day 3: 65%fat/35%protein--BMR-15%

    2400cal (BMR) x .15=360cal (is 15% from BMR)

    2400cal (BMR) – 360 cal (15%deficit)=2040cal for day 3

    ---fat ratios for day 3---

    2040cal x .65 (that is 65% fat)=1326cal from fat

    Fat has 9 calories/gram

    1326cal divided by 9cal/gram=147g fat for day 3

    ---now we need the protein ratios for day 3---

    2040cal x .35(that is 35%protein)=714 cal from protein

    Protein has 4 calories/grams

    714cal divided by 4cal/gram=178 g protein for day 3

    Totals for Day-3: 147g fat/178g protein
    Day 4: 70%fat/30%protein-- BMR

    2400cal (BMR)

    ---fat ratios for day 4---

    2400cal x .70 (that is 70% fat)=1680cal from fat

    Fat has 9 calories/gram

    1680cal divided by 9cal/gram=186g fat for day 4

    ---now we need the protein ratios for day 4---

    2400cal x .30(that is 30%protein)=720 cal from protein

    Protein has 4 calories/grams

    720cal divided by 4cal/gram=180 g protein for day 4

    Totals for Day-4: 186g fat/180g protein
    Day 5: 70%fat/30%protein--BMR-10%

    2400cal (BMR) x .10=240cal (is 10% from BMR)

    2400cal (BMR) – 240 cal (10%deficit)=2160cal for day 5

    ---fat ratios for day 5---

    2160cal x .70 (that is 70% fat)=1512cal from fat

    Fat has 9 calories/gram

    1512cal divided by 9cal/gram=168g fat for day 5

    ---now we need the protein ratios for day 5---

    2160cal x .30(that is 30%protein)=648 cal from protein

    Protein has 4 calories/grams

    648cal divided by 4cal/gram=162 g protein for day 5

    Totals for Day-5: 168g fat/162g protein
    Day 6: (same as day 3) 65%fat/35%protein-- BMR-15%
    2400cal (BMR) x .15=360cal (is 15% from BMR)
    2400cal (BMR) – 360 cal (15%deficit)=2040cal for day 6
    ---fat ratios for day 6---
    2040cal x .65 (that is 65% fat)=1326cal from fat
    Fat has 9 calories/gram
    1326cal divided by 9cal/gram=147g fat for day 6
    ---now we need the protein ratios for day 6---
    2040cal x .35(that is 35%protein)=714 cal from protein
    Protein has 4 calories/grams
    714cal divided by 4cal/gram=178 g protein for day 6
    Totals for Day-6: 147g fat/178g protein
    Essential-Fatty-Acids: flaxseed oil, sesames seed oil, sunflower seed oil, grape seed oil, olive oil, peanut oil
    Now, I know, I know. You want to know how to do this the easy way. Because, what I’ve just shown beforehand is probably damn complicated. So, here is a simple rule-of-thumb way to break down your Ketosis ratios:
    1)Set calories at: 12 cal/lb
    2)Set protein intake: typically 0.9 g/lb. Protein has 4 cal/gram
    3)Set fat intake: take protein calories and subtract them from total calories, then divide by 9 to get grams of fat.
    In practice, most people end up eating about 1 gram of fat for every gram of protein. Ketosis almost always establishes with 1/1 ratios. (fat/protein -grams-)

    CARB-UP:
    I’ve heard different ratios stated by different people on this subject, but as you know, opinions are like ass-holes everyone has one and it stinks. So, I will attempt to come up with a feasible ratios for you.
    DAY 7: --carb-up— BMR+30%
    EXAMPLE FOR A 200lb PERSON:
    2400cal (BMR) x .30= 720cal
    2400cal + 720cal=3120cal
    ~70%carbs/20%protein/10%fat~
    CARBS:
    3120 x .70= 2185 cal from carbs
    Carbohydrates have 4cal/g
    2185cal divided by 4ca/g=546g carbs
    PROTEIN:
    3120 x .20=624cal from protein
    Protein has 4cal/g
    624cal divided by 4cal/g=156g protein
    FAT:
    3120 x .10=312 cal from fat
    Fat has 9cal/g
    312 divided by 9=35g fat
    Totals: 546g carbs/156g protein/35g fat
    SAMPLE CARB-UP: (6meals) –based on 200lb person—
    1-2: 150 g liquid glucose polymers...like carb powders (ex..carbo max, dextrose..etc.) w/ 1 scoop protein
    3-4: 75 g of liquid and solid glucose polymers...sugar cereals (frosted flakes,honey-nut-cheerios..etc) w/ fat-free milk w/ 1/4 cup walnuts
    5-6: 50 g of complex carbs (low-GI)...oatmeal, brown-rice, beans, yams, sweet potato w/ 1/4 cup walnuts
    FRUCTOSE: (i.e. FRUITS)
    Why is it that people say to avoid fructose? I've heard that quite a few times, and was curious why. How important is this? Fructose resupplies the liver with glycogen first, if the liver is full, then via the pentose phosphate pathway, all additional fructose goes to FAT.
    I know that every reader wants a simple way to figure out a carb-up, so here it is:
    1) Set total calories at: 16 cal/lb
    2) Set protein intake: typically 0.2 g/lb. Protein has 4 cal/gram
    3) Set fat intake: usually 0.1g/lb. Fat has 9cal/gram
    4) Set carb. intake: add protein and fat calories and subtract it from total calories, then divide by 4 to get grams of carbs.
    In practice, most people end up eating about 2.7 grams of carbs for every lb of weight.

    So, what type of workout and cardio do you have to do while on CKD. Here is a sample workout routine based on a 6/1 CKD. (6day Ketosis/1day carb-up)
    Day:
    1- 30 min cardio morning(empty stomach)/workout: Chest, Upper-Back, shoulders, arms, traps, abs
    2- 30 min cardio morning/ workout: Legs, (includes, calfs, hams,quads), lower-back
    3- 45 min cardio morning OR 1 hour cardio during the day
    4- SAME AS DAY 3
    5- 30-45 min cardio AM no workout
    6- 30 min cardio AM/ full body workout = circuit training 3-5 times (very light 20-25reps)
    7- before carb-up…early in AM do a full body circuit workout 3-5 times (very light 20-25reps), then IMMEDIATELY begin CARB-UP.
    -(DAY 1-6) For each bodypart do 1-2 exercises with 12-10-18-6 -dropset-12 reps---
    ex: bench-press 12/10/8/6 drop set 12 reps
    -You can increase the number of exercises for legs 1-3 with 12-10-8-6-12 reps---
    Ok, now that I have given you way too much information to comprehend, I am going to load up a little more info about supplements and then we’re done.
    Supplements you need for CKD:
    FIBER –soluble or any other form
    Multi Vitamins(MV)/ Multi Minerals(MM)
    AdipoKinetix
    "Appreciate the power of nature, knowing the rhythm of any situation, and you will be able to do anything you wish." Miyamoto Musashi
    turbo44@elitefitness.com

  5. #5
    Senior Member w8lifter's Avatar
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    Damn! Where the h*ll was this post last week when I was trying to figure out my CKD, lol

  6. #6
    clueless wonder
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    Originally posted by w8lifter
    Damn! Where the h*ll was this post last week when I was trying to figure out my CKD, lol
    we refrain from grabbing info from that board or sending ppl over there. It wouldn't be right to send ppl over to the dark side.

  7. #7
    Senior Member TvR8oRage's Avatar
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    Originally posted by vpy


    we refrain from grabbing info from that board or sending ppl over there. It wouldn't be right to send ppl over to the dark side.
    well bro seeing how no one else on this board knew anything about CKD i though id post it, anyone interested in Kenetic style diets the info above is great but for my detail i suggest you pick up a copy of body opus by Dan Duchanie with this style diet i have been able to get BF% down to 31/2 -4% and maintain for several months, i dont suggest this as a diet for life but as a diet to prepare for the beach or competions if you have trouble getting totaly ripped on traditional diets give it a try and youll
    never look at cutting up the same again its truely amazing what this diet dose to your body.
    "Appreciate the power of nature, knowing the rhythm of any situation, and you will be able to do anything you wish." Miyamoto Musashi
    turbo44@elitefitness.com

  8. #8
    Party of "No." Tryska's Avatar
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    actually fran's posting of Lyle McDonald's website actually provided quite a bit of information on CKDs.
    A little learning is a dangerous thing...

    Live Dangerously! Learn a Little!


    Dude, did Doogie Howser just steal my fucking car?

  9. #9
    Senior Member w8lifter's Avatar
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    Originally posted by vpy


    we refrain from grabbing info from that board or sending ppl over there. It wouldn't be right to send ppl over to the dark side.
    Oh, it's from the dark side, didn't realize. I went there once, but I'm still recovering from the traumatic experience

    TvR8oRage: I'm just kidding around, no offense

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