The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Its no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
    Proud Father Maki Riddington's Avatar
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    Bench Pressing, Full Or Half ROM?

    Just like Squats, some people only bench so that their elbows are at a 90 degree angle.
    Other people believe that a full ROM which allows the individual to gently touch the bar to their chest is the most effective way to bench.

    Your thoughts?
    Maki Fit Blog

    At Large: Optimize Your Body | Dynamic Conditioning |
    My articles on Wannabebig

    "Soli Deo Gloria"
    "Test all things; hold fast what is good.": 1 Thessalonians 5:21

    "I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do--this I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
    So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God's law; but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God--through Jesus Christ our Lord!"
    Romans 7:14-25

    "Judo is not about strength. Yet in the learning curve, all Judokas get strong. Only with time do you learn where to apply that strength."
    The Art of Judo

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  3. #2
    Wannabebig Member
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    I just took it as red that 90 deg was the best, if you go lower yer bring in the delts

    ontheup

    CUSHTIE

    YOUR`E NEVER TO OLD TO LEARN SOMETHING STUPID.

  4. #3
    MulletII - AKA Ninja Boner Gyno Rhino's Avatar
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    I don't really see the point in benching to 90 degrees. Just touch it to your chest.
    Founding Member and CEO of the FFFA

    "All that matters is beauty on the inside! Outside beauty doesn't matter!"
    ~This is something ugly people say to feel better about themselves...

    "Strength and size don't matter! It's not fair to judge training knowledge based on strength and size!"
    ~This is something wussy people say to feel better about themselves...

    Pearls of Wisdom...


    Resident Ninja Demon (with a pet Radioactive Sloth) and SchlonkeyMaster of WBB!

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    And no COLON jokes, bastards!

  5. #4
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    The whole range of motion thing on the bench is somewhat misunderstood. A lot of people believe that a wide grip works the chest to a greater degree than a narrower grip. Now, taken to extremes, this is true (i.e. an extremely close grip places more emphasis on the triceps, thus limiting pectoral invplvement). However, a narrower (without being too narrow) grip also takes the pectoralis through a greater range of motion. It is generally agreed that a greater ROM is superior for stimulation, thus a narrower grip is superior for pectoralis development. Now, most trainees use a grip where their upper and lower arms form roughly a 90 degree angle at the point where the bar touches the chest, so I am not sure I understood the question.

  6. #5
    Lord Kel Masters Sayiajin Prince's Avatar
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    i think my anatomy is weird cuz i cant place my elbows that far back for the bar to touch my chest, it feels like my shoulder is cracking of somethin
    "The whole jedi thing was just not compatible with my lifestyle. My master was jelous he was always holding me back, -"be mindfull of the future, but live in the present"- what the hell does that mean? I even got my arm cut off...it just sucked. So i switched to the dark side and i havent looked back once...Now i am shooting lightning from my fingertips, choking people over the phone, i even get to wear a cape.....its just boss. My name is Anikin skywalker and i am a sith lord."

    "i have the sex drive of 10 rabbits on viagra"

    age: 19
    height: 5'8'' (im lieing its probably 5'7'')
    weight: 159-165 lbs (morning and day)
    bodyfat: 8.6
    bench:315
    squat:405
    Deadlift:500

    goals for end of the year 405/500/600 at 170-175(with the 8pack)

    other: dips 3 and a quarter plates for 4 reps

  7. #6
    Proud Father Maki Riddington's Avatar
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    Chris, I understand that certain individuals have short arms which means that they will touch their chest with the bar if they were to go to a 90 degree angle at their elbow joint.

    This is geared towards those that have long arms. Whether it is a wide grip or a narrow grip is a full ROM bench going to be more superior?
    Maki Fit Blog

    At Large: Optimize Your Body | Dynamic Conditioning |
    My articles on Wannabebig

    "Soli Deo Gloria"
    "Test all things; hold fast what is good.": 1 Thessalonians 5:21

    "I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do--this I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
    So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God's law; but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God--through Jesus Christ our Lord!"
    Romans 7:14-25

    "Judo is not about strength. Yet in the learning curve, all Judokas get strong. Only with time do you learn where to apply that strength."
    The Art of Judo

  8. #7
    Canadian
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    i was just thinking of asking this question myself.
    at my gym i see alot of guys not doing a full ROM. either they rep out at the bottom portion of the movement or the top. this allows them to use more weight, but does it mean its more effective?
    i always thought a full ROM was best.

    chris:
    when the bar touches my chest my arms form a much smaller angle than 90 degrees. if i stop at 90 the bar would be a good six inches above my chest. i do not use a wide grip, rather a medium grip. are u suggesting i stop at 90?
    "Discipline is never an end itself, only a means to an end." - Robert Fripp

  9. #8
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    Not at all, I merely meant that most trainees use a grip which places the arms at roughly (roughly ) a 90 degree angle when they touch their chest. For people with longer arms, and or shallower chests this will most likely not be the case. As I mentioned in my post, I believe that a greater range of motion is the best for healthy trainees.
    Last edited by chris mason; 09-10-2001 at 05:31 PM.

  10. #9
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    It varies from individual to individual due to arm length, shoulder width, etc. You have to experiment a little with grip width and range of motion and decide what feels like you're getting the best range of motion w/o overstressing anything.

    I have long arms and generally use a wider grip (more than shoulder width) but bring the bar down to about 2-3" above my chest. Any further and I can feel my sloppy shoulder start to slide around (not cool).

    I could give all to Time except - except
    What I myself have held. But why declare
    The things forbidden that while the Customs slept
    I have crossed to Safety with? For I am There,
    And what I would not part with I have kept.

    --Robert Frost

  11. #10
    Cardio bunny Alex.V's Avatar
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    Same as ice for distance.

    I don't have great shoulders, and I have very long arms, so the bar usually comes within 2-3" of the chest, at that point the arms are at 90 degrees.
    "Except Belial. He knows everything. This isn't a sarcastic attack, either. He really knows everything." -----Organichu
    "Alex is all knowing and perfect"-----Jane (loosely paraphrased)
    -515/745/700 bench/deadlift/squat
    Current mile time: 4:23
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  12. #11
    Moderator Adam's Avatar
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    Overall I would tell people to touch there chest, the exceptions would be people with bad shoulders, or people just trying to get triceps to do most of the press or powerlifters for getting a stronger lockout. But as I said for most people I tell them to do a full ROM.
    Best Meet @ Lifts@181:...............Best gym lifts
    Squat...- 403..........................Squat....- 395 w/belt
    Bench...- 303..........................Bench....- 300....Paused in meet - 281
    Deadlift.- 503.....Unofficial 513...Deadlift..- 490
    Total....- 1,203...IPF Class II......All done raw, Touch'n go bench

    "Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly" Robert F. Kennedy

    "A man can fail many times, but he isn't a failure until he gives up"

    "However beautiful the strategy you should occasionally look at the results" John Berardi

    Powerlifting Westside Style

  13. #12
    Bigger fewl
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    I would say both. A little variation never hurts.

    If you have a sticking point or trouble locking out like getting bigger said, partials can be used to put big gains on your full lifts.
    Squat...Eat...Sleep...Grow!

    Carpe diem

    Milk.... it does the body good.

  14. #13
    As I Am Paul Stagg's Avatar
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    As a general rule, full ROM is better than partial ROM.

    Certainly there are times when this is not the case.

    To protect the shoulder joint, keep the upper arms at a 45 degree angle to the torso. Whatever grip gets you there with the bar at the mid chest is the way to go. This may not be your strongest postition, so this may not be what you want to do in a PL meet.

    If you have shoulder trouble, I'd drop the BB bench press altogether. No reason to do it when there are other equally as effective lifts.
    Squats work better than supplements.
    "You know, if I thought like that, I'd never put more than one plate on the bar for anything, I'd never use bands or chains, I'd never squat to parallel or below, and I'd never let out the slightest grunt when I lift. At some point in your lifting career (assuming you're planning on getting reasonably strong and big), you're going to have to accept that most people think you are some kind of freak." -Sensei
    "You're wrong, and I have a completely irrelevant pubmed abstract that may or may not say so." - Belial
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  15. #14
    MA's Bionic Creation syntekz's Avatar
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    I touch my chest with the barbell.

    When I'm using dumbells; I make the dumbells touch my shoulder.

    I think this has a lot do with body structure. I've seen big fat guys, with short arms, who have a very small ROM; but they still are touching their chests.

  16. #15
    Lord Kel Masters Sayiajin Prince's Avatar
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    how should one's back be?
    should there be a small arch in the lower back?
    "The whole jedi thing was just not compatible with my lifestyle. My master was jelous he was always holding me back, -"be mindfull of the future, but live in the present"- what the hell does that mean? I even got my arm cut off...it just sucked. So i switched to the dark side and i havent looked back once...Now i am shooting lightning from my fingertips, choking people over the phone, i even get to wear a cape.....its just boss. My name is Anikin skywalker and i am a sith lord."

    "i have the sex drive of 10 rabbits on viagra"

    age: 19
    height: 5'8'' (im lieing its probably 5'7'')
    weight: 159-165 lbs (morning and day)
    bodyfat: 8.6
    bench:315
    squat:405
    Deadlift:500

    goals for end of the year 405/500/600 at 170-175(with the 8pack)

    other: dips 3 and a quarter plates for 4 reps

  17. #16
    MA's Bionic Creation syntekz's Avatar
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    Just keep your back and butt on the bench. LOL.

    I've seen people completely raise their entire lower body off the bench. The only thing that was touching was their shoulders/upper back; everything was sticking up in the middle of the air.

  18. #17
    Proud Father Maki Riddington's Avatar
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    Keep your butt on the bench and raise your lower back off the bench.
    Maki Fit Blog

    At Large: Optimize Your Body | Dynamic Conditioning |
    My articles on Wannabebig

    "Soli Deo Gloria"
    "Test all things; hold fast what is good.": 1 Thessalonians 5:21

    "I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do--this I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
    So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God's law; but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God--through Jesus Christ our Lord!"
    Romans 7:14-25

    "Judo is not about strength. Yet in the learning curve, all Judokas get strong. Only with time do you learn where to apply that strength."
    The Art of Judo

  19. #18
    Lord Kel Masters Sayiajin Prince's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Maki Riddington
    Keep your butt on the bench and raise your lower back off the bench.
    thats wut i wus asking, thanx
    "The whole jedi thing was just not compatible with my lifestyle. My master was jelous he was always holding me back, -"be mindfull of the future, but live in the present"- what the hell does that mean? I even got my arm cut off...it just sucked. So i switched to the dark side and i havent looked back once...Now i am shooting lightning from my fingertips, choking people over the phone, i even get to wear a cape.....its just boss. My name is Anikin skywalker and i am a sith lord."

    "i have the sex drive of 10 rabbits on viagra"

    age: 19
    height: 5'8'' (im lieing its probably 5'7'')
    weight: 159-165 lbs (morning and day)
    bodyfat: 8.6
    bench:315
    squat:405
    Deadlift:500

    goals for end of the year 405/500/600 at 170-175(with the 8pack)

    other: dips 3 and a quarter plates for 4 reps

  20. #19
    Canadian
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    Originally posted by chris mason
    Not at all, I merely meant that most trainees use a grip which places the arms at roughly (roughly ) a 90 degree angle when they touch their chest. For people with longer arms, and or shallower chests this will most likely not be the case. As I mentioned in my post, I believe that a greater range of motion is the best for healthy trainees.
    thanks for clarifying
    "Discipline is never an end itself, only a means to an end." - Robert Fripp

  21. #20
    David Puddy Maddog's Avatar
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    I always touch my chest on bench. The only people that I've seen that don't are usually using twice as much weight as they should.
    ...it's more friendly for trainers to say, "yeah, we can help you tone up!" rather than saying, "yeah, we can help you get rid of that fat ass!"

    Anthony

  22. #21
    Soon to be lean... Joe Black's Avatar
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    lol Maddog's comment reminds me of this guy in the gym..

    He uses both in the same set.

    he'll put up a wiehgt he can bench say 3 full reps with and then he will continue to go unassisted for a firther 5 or 6 , the rom getting smaller each time..

    I don't see why he doesn't use a spotter and go for 3 more full rom assisted reps?

  23. #22
    Senior Member Bigmofo's Avatar
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    I had the same problem, so right now I bench till my arms make a 45 angle, I have relatively long forearms and short arms, so it brings the bar 1-1.5'' above my chest, anything lower and my rotators suffer, even if I am only moving the bar.

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