The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #26
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    Originally posted by STM


    Well I read this part of your post. Could you tell me why it is so silly?

    Certainly. I will address the issues in point form.

    1. The article is literally RIDDLED with spelling and grammatical mistakes. Now anyone can make a few mistakes, (heck I'm not perfect either) but this article looks like it was written by a grade nine student who read a few too many Flex magazines and not enough English books. In and of itself, this does not have a bearing on the author's training knowledge, but I counted 9 mistakes in one paragraph alone! If you are trying to present your ideas, it is a good idea to employ Spell Checker at the very least. It certainly should raise a red light at the least to see a article as badly written as this one.


    2. "I truly believe I could take anybody reading this and turn them into a 4.0lbs per inch bodybuilder." First of all even men like Ronnie Coleman, and Yates are not 4.0lbs per inch bodybuilders ( at least in contest shape. ) Off-season yes, but do you really believe this guy's training could make "anybody" (his words) look like Coleman, Ruhl and Yates? Come on! Words like everyone and anybody should raise another red light...and cast serious doubt on the author's training qualifications.

    3. "Every bodybuilder I have trained has gained at least 47 lbs." Well I have gained about 60 lbs (naturally) during the time that I have been training. Does that qualify me to give advice? If not, what about him? If we are using weight gain as one of the criteria, then certainly I am more qualified.


    4. "I have trained 7 people bodybuilding wise in the last 4 years" Doesn't sound so great to me. That's less than TWO clients a YEAR! If he is so good, why are people not beating a path to his door? I've never heard of him and neither have many others on this board. Also nearly all this people he trained were on "juice". This alone makes his advice worthless for most of the people on this board.

    5. "If you train a bodypart once a month you will not overtrain but you will be growing only 12 times a year...
    Wrong. You will not grow if you train once a month. You will regress. Try it and see.

    6. "Incredible strength GAINS will equal incredible size GAINS." No this is wrong again. You can get a lot stronger without getting a lot bigger. He has got it the wrong way around.

    7. "I believe Ronnie Coleman was clean or close to it when he was powerlifting and when he was an amateur bodybuilder"
    Say what? First of all, either one is clean or not. There is no "close to it." Secondly if someone is THAT deluded, do you really think he knows what he is talking about?


    Feeling bored yet? I could go on and give many more examples...but I'm bored. Maybe if you're not convinced yet, I'll point out the rest in another post.
    Last edited by Songsangnim; 11-29-2003 at 10:27 PM.

  2. #27
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    "Feeling bored yet"?

    And how! Nice summation , by the way.

    In general, these kinds of arguments would be limited if every bodybuilder were about 10 years older than they are now. Then they would realize that there is nothing new under the sun, include DogCrap's "new" training methods. Sheez. Same crap, different dog. (And kids, learn to recognize an advertisement when you read one).

  3. #28
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    Double G

    What is DC advertising? If you mean he is trying to sell his program, why would he post his whole program on a 100+ page thread? Or answer questions regarding the program?

    'Kid' learn to keep an open mind.

  4. #29
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    Where' the advertising? Let's quote:


    "Dogg is presently training people online with daily emails to them and an A to Z approach with diet supplementation training and recovery. He is expensive but he wants to be because he doesn't want to train a lot of people at once (Four at once is his lit)."

    and

    "He turns away people who he doesn't believe will go at or listen to him 100 percent. If 400 dollars equals out to the 40-60lbs of muscle Dogg puts on people repeatedly to you-- then you can contact him at Doggcrapp@ziplip.com"

    Yep, there it is.

  5. #30
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    Actually the "article" by Doggcrap isn't an article, it's a thread that has been ongoing over at animalkits. An article with over 105 pages of replys I might add

    I know of a few bodybuilders that swear by his methods, and have seriously made HUGE progress. Some of his clients were on juice yes, but not every single on of them. He has trained many natural bodybuilders as well.

    ExtremeAnabolic,

    First of all, just because someone might not have as high of an "education" as you obvioiusly do, you shouldn't make fun of someone's grammarical mistakes when I have counted a few that you have made

    Secondly, you obviously don't believe that DC training style won't add weight even to the smallest people, maybe you should prove it wrong. Give it a go for a few weeks, are you afraid
    Last edited by Blindfaith; 12-16-2003 at 08:39 PM.

  6. #31
    Senior Member smalls's Avatar
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    K, I dont think many people are getting the main point.

    DC training is what a lot of people already do, with slight modifications all summed up in a long article. But it's not like their "his" training principles that put so much muscle on people.

    I dont understand how people still beleive there are "tricks" to this game, especiallly "tricks" when it comes to training.
    Diet is key, the calorie is king

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    Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination
    alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'press on' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race."
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  7. #32
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    sure there are tricks to training...the trick is to find that one type of training that works best for your body to grow at a large rate...maybe he found one that just happens to work for him and ALOT of other people.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by STM
    Well I read this part of your post. Could you tell me why it is so silly?
    For the reasons he stated in the post you quoted from.
    Shao-LiN
    "I tried so hard and got so far, but in the end, it doesn't even matter." - Linkin Park

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blindfaith
    Actually the "article" by Doggcrap isn't an article, it's a thread that has been ongoing over at animalkits. An article with over 105 pages of replys I might add

    I know of a few bodybuilders that swear by his methods, and have seriously made HUGE progress. Some of his clients were on juice yes, but not every single on of them. He has trained many natural bodybuilders as well.

    ExtremeAnabolic,

    First of all, just because someone might not have as high of an "education" as you obvioiusly do, you shouldn't make fun of someone's grammarical mistakes when I have counted a few that you have made

    Secondly, you obviously don't believe that DC training style won't add weight even to the smallest people, maybe you should prove it wrong. Give it a go for a few weeks, are you afraid
    First of all, I wasn't making "fun" of his mistakes. Go back and read my post. I stated that I was not perfect either when it comes to spelling. But if you are trying to sell an idea, and you come across as mildly retarded, it is not a great marketing strategy. That article has literally over A HUNDRED mistakes in it (and I am not just talking spelling mistakes, but training misconceptions as well).


    Secondly where do you get the idea that I "obviously don't believe that DC training style won't add weight even to the smallest people..." Where did I ever say that? What I said, (and you should refer to my post again) is that it is not going to turn a natural into a 4lbs per inch bodybuilder. What I also said is that the author claimed that his style would work for everyone. I said that that was a rather silly claim to make, for reasons that should be obvious.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blindfaith
    sure there are tricks to training...the trick is to find that one type of training that works best for your body to grow at a large rate...maybe he found one that just happens to work for him and ALOT of other people.

    Since (by the author's own admission) that most of these people were on 'juice' that can be hardly called a style of training. Bottom line, if every single one of these people were natural, then maybe he would have a case. But the majority were on gear and the few remaining naturals could have been (for all we know) genetically gifted. It would have been more honest and made much more of a compelling case if he had started with a large group of naturals and gone from there.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shao-LiN
    For the reasons he stated in the post you quoted from.
    Thanks for pointing that out.

    I believe that EVERY training system that has been put out makes 'claims' about this or that. Does it make the system useless? Can you actually gain some knowledge from his ideas?

    Can you learn something about incorporating extreme stretching to help you grow, yes. Can you use his other ideas like his style of pullups to grow, yes. FYI I have been lifting for 13 years, read tons on the subject, and have NEVER read about doing pullups in this fashion.

    If you read the thread, yes all 100+ pages of it, you would realize that he has trained nattys and makes adjustments to the program. Go read it, if you can take a few things from it that might work for you, then great.

    Anyways this is pretty old man, I obviously disagree with Extremeanabolic, and lets leave it at that.


    Please accept my apology for any spelling/grammar mistakes.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExtremeAnabolic
    Since (by the author's own admission) that most of these people were on 'juice' that can be hardly called a style of training. Bottom line, if every single one of these people were natural, then maybe he would have a case. But the majority were on gear and the few remaining naturals could have been (for all we know) genetically gifted. It would have been more honest and made much more of a compelling case if he had started with a large group of naturals and gone from there.
    EA,
    I guess you have to read all the threads to be truely appreciative about it. And if you do read most to all of the threads he doesn't train just steroid users. Besides, you can take all the juice in the world but if your training and diet aren't there than you got nothing but expensive piss! And again, it's not an article, its just an ongoing thread, so there are likely to be a few errors

    Also it's hard to explain an entire training philosophy over a board, which I believe DoggCrap does very well. Alot of other guys don't like to be told how they should train...especially from over the internet. Heck all you know the guy could be a 16 year old kid. I guess it's an ego thing for most people. But people are still brainwashed on the ideas that doing a 3 day split, or high volume routine is king of all routines. If you were to see and hear DC in person maybe you would have a different opinion about his style and philosophies.

    Maybe not everyone will grow to be a 285lbs monsters like him, alot of people don't have that dedication and alot of people just don't have the balls.

    Try the routine before you discard it as crap. I can't openly post the site where his huge thread is, but if you want to educate yourself, expand your horizons if you will, then PM me and i'll send you the link.

    Cheers

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by STM
    Thanks for pointing that out.

    I believe that EVERY training system that has been put out makes 'claims' about this or that. Does it make the system useless? Can you actually gain some knowledge from his ideas?

    Can you learn something about incorporating extreme stretching to help you grow, yes. Can you use his other ideas like his style of pullups to grow, yes. FYI I have been lifting for 13 years, read tons on the subject, and have NEVER read about doing pullups in this fashion.

    If you read the thread, yes all 100+ pages of it, you would realize that he has trained nattys and makes adjustments to the program. Go read it, if you can take a few things from it that might work for you, then great.

    Anyways this is pretty old man, I obviously disagree with Extremeanabolic, and lets leave it at that.


    Please accept my apology for any spelling/grammar mistakes.
    I think we are on our own here bud! hehe. Oh well not our loss right! Oh and I looked over your post and it has 2 mistakes...nothing major. hehe
    Last edited by Blindfaith; 12-17-2003 at 12:42 PM.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blindfaith
    EA,
    Heck all you know the guy could be a 16 year old kid.

    Maybe not everyone will grow to be a 285lbs monsters like him, alot of people don't have that dedication and alot of people just don't have the balls.

    Try the routine before you discard it as crap. I can't openly post the site where his huge thread is, but if you want to educate yourself, expand your horizons if you will, then PM me and i'll send you the link.

    Cheers
    Ahh, the mystery is solved.

    If all it took were "dedication" and "balls" I would have been 285 lbs a long time ago. So would a lot of other people. To be 285 lbs takes one of two things or both. Genetics and steroids. There are very few people on this board who are 285 lbs and in shape. Your comment was a slap in the face to them all. You are claiming that they are that way because they don't have dedication or balls. I guess it must be easy to hide behind a computer and throw out insults hmm?

    The routine is a ripoff of Menzer's. True there are some differences, (he advocates more exercises and more time), but nothing that hasn't been said over and over again for the last thirty years. By all means keep believing that you have found the "magic" routine and train that way. You might even get big. But don't ever again get snarky with me pal. "Educate myself?"
    I have been training for almost 14 years. I have a Master's degree in a related field. And I have gone from 140 lbs to 200 lbs with only a little more bodyfat than I had when I started. And at 6'2" and 140 I had little enough bodyfat to begin with. DoggCrap states that every bodybuilder he has trained has gained at least 47 lbs. How much of that was fat? I have gained 60 lbs totally naturally. I have never even taken legal supplements, ever. Well I must know more about training than DoggCrap then right? No I know what works for me. Just like he knows what works for him (when he is on gear at least).

    BTW I noticed that you only faulted me for ripping on his spelling and you competely evaded the other six points I made. How about addressing them?
    Last edited by Songsangnim; 12-18-2003 at 05:53 AM.

  15. #40
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    Well, there seems to be a lot of arguing over his principles, but no one here (at least from skimming all these posts) has tried it.

    Like Borris said, I have tried training like this. It works. I made excellent gains, increasing strength every workout and putting on size to boot. Just trained like he said and kept my protein intake over 400 g/day. I will say, though, that I did NOT like the extreme stretching--seemed to aggravate old injuries more than help me gain.
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  16. #41
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    EA,

    Actually I think ever routine ever was ripped off from Milo.

    Mentzer used extreme stretching? Rest pause sets? Working the body more than once a week? Exercise rotations? Olive oil by the boatload? I never read that in his books.

    I am happy for you and your Master's degree, it must make you all warm and fuzzy inside to bring it up on a bodybuilding board. Since you brought it up, what 'related field' is it in?

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExtremeAnabolic
    Ahh, the mystery is solved.

    If all it took were "dedication" and "balls" I would have been 285 lbs a long time ago. So would a lot of other people. To be 285 lbs takes one of two things or both. Genetics and steroids. There are very few people on this board who are 285 lbs and in shape. Your comment was a slap in the face to them all. You are claiming that they are that way because they don't have dedication or balls. I guess it must be easy to hide behind a computer and throw out insults hmm?

    The routine is a ripoff of Menzer's. True there are some differences, (he advocates more exercises and more time), but nothing that hasn't been said over and over again for the last thirty years. By all means keep believing that you have found the "magic" routine and train that way. You might even get big. But don't ever again get snarky with me pal. "Educate myself?"
    I have been training for almost 14 years. I have a Master's degree in a related field. And I have gone from 140 lbs to 200 lbs with only a little more bodyfat than I had when I started. And at 6'2" and 140 I had little enough bodyfat to begin with. DoggCrap states that every bodybuilder he has trained has gained at least 47 lbs. How much of that was fat? I have gained 60 lbs totally naturally. I have never even taken legal supplements, ever. Well I must know more about training than DoggCrap then right? No I know what works for me. Just like he knows what works for him (when he is on gear at least).

    BTW I noticed that you only faulted me for ripping on his spelling and you competely evaded the other six points I made. How about addressing

    them?
    Your whole argument is now void. I found a spelling mistake!!! I also assume you meant "I have never taken illegal supplements".

    Last edited by STM; 12-18-2003 at 09:40 AM.

  18. #43
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    It looks like it has some similarities to some of Mentzer's workouts, especially the rest pause, but it doesn't look the same.

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExtremeAnabolic
    Ahh, the mystery is solved.

    If all it took were "dedication" and "balls" I would have been 285 lbs a long time ago. So would a lot of other people. To be 285 lbs takes one of two things or both. Genetics and steroids. There are very few people on this board who are 285 lbs and in shape. Your comment was a slap in the face to them all. You are claiming that they are that way because they don't have dedication or balls. I guess it must be easy to hide behind a computer and throw out insults hmm?

    The routine is a ripoff of Menzer's. True there are some differences, (he advocates more exercises and more time), but nothing that hasn't been said over and over again for the last thirty years. By all means keep believing that you have found the "magic" routine and train that way. You might even get big. But don't ever again get snarky with me pal. "Educate myself?"
    I have been training for almost 14 years. I have a Master's degree in a related field. And I have gone from 140 lbs to 200 lbs with only a little more bodyfat than I had when I started. And at 6'2" and 140 I had little enough bodyfat to begin with. DoggCrap states that every bodybuilder he has trained has gained at least 47 lbs. How much of that was fat? I have gained 60 lbs totally naturally. I have never even taken legal supplements, ever. Well I must know more about training than DoggCrap then right? No I know what works for me. Just like he knows what works for him (when he is on gear at least).

    BTW I noticed that you only faulted me for ripping on his spelling and you competely evaded the other six points I made. How about addressing them?
    First of all EA, I wasnt trying to slap anyone in the face...you took what I said WAY out of context my friend.

    If you think debating is being "snarky" then you must have really hated getting grilled during your thesis review I too have a Masters in a related field. Don't take the debating as a slap to your ego..which you are obviously doing, take it as an elightnement

    Basically what DC has been doing is taking a few principles from different training aspects to make one that worked well for himself...then after training a few guys (not all on juice) that were stuck in a plateau to become better than they had ever dreamed possible. And if you ever decided to venture out on other boards (ie: anabolicminds, animalkits.be, musclemayham, bodybuilding.com etc etc etc...) you will read ENDLESS threads of people hailing this man is there GOD! Now i don't believe in cults or anything but I do believe he has started one. I don't see anyone on here hailing you as their God.

    And whats with this whole hatred thing against people taking roids...are you prejudice or something!? Just because someone takes a performance enhancer doesn't make them a bad person. As I said before and i'll say it again: YOU CAN TAKE ALL THE JUICE IN THE WORLD, IT ISNT GOING TO MAKE YOU THE HULK ENLESS YOU TRAIN AND EAT RIGHT! So just because someone is taking juice (which only makes a trainee recover faster) doesnt mean they are going to make better gains.

    I really don't care if you try it or not...just keep doing your 3 sets of 10, 3 day split, too much volume, overtraining special.

    I can tell we are going be the best of friends!

    Cheers

  20. #45
    Senior Member smalls's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=STM]EA,

    Actually I think ever routine ever was ripped off from Milo.

    Mentzer used extreme stretching? Rest pause sets? Working the body more than once a week?
    QUOTE]

    LOFL. Mentzer used a lot of different training protocols throughout his life, but if anyone is responsible for popularizing rest-pause training it's him.

    K, I'm not agreeing with anyone here in particular, but if you would read all the ****ing posts, you would see that no one is discrediting doggcrap training as effective. They are just saying its not some new and amazing thing that is better than anything anyone has ever seen.

    **** man, every training program has been implemented 100's of times in the past. How do you think those greek gods got so jacked.
    Last edited by smalls; 12-18-2003 at 05:01 PM.
    Diet is key, the calorie is king

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    Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination
    alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'press on' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race."
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    "If you want to look abnormal you have to eat abnormal,lol."--ST

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by STM
    EA,

    Actually I think ever routine ever was ripped off from Milo.

    Mentzer used extreme stretching? Rest pause sets? Working the body more than once a week? Exercise rotations? Olive oil by the boatload? I never read that in his books.

    I am happy for you and your Master's degree, it must make you all warm and fuzzy inside to bring it up on a bodybuilding board. Since you brought it up, what 'related field' is it in?

    You must not have read many of his books then. Mentzer was a champion of rest-pause. He is one of the main figures responsible for popularizing it. And yes he used exercise rotations and olive oil (the last is used by many bodybuilders or so they claim.)

    Exercise science. What is yours in BTW? Or DogCrapp's
    Last edited by Songsangnim; 12-19-2003 at 04:47 AM.

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by STM
    Your whole argument is now void. I found a spelling mistake!!! I also assume you meant "I have never taken illegal supplements".


    As I said, I never claimed to be perfect. And you still have not addressed the other reasons why I thought (and still think) DogCrapp's article is silly.

    And no, I have NEVER taken ANY supplements, legal or otherwise. What is so hard to understand about that?
    Last edited by Songsangnim; 12-19-2003 at 05:06 AM.

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blindfaith
    First of all EA, I wasnt trying to slap anyone in the face...you took what I said WAY out of context my friend.

    If you think debating is being "snarky" then you must have really hated getting grilled during your thesis review I too have a Masters in a related field. Don't take the debating as a slap to your ego..which you are obviously doing, take it as an elightnement

    Basically what DC has been doing is taking a few principles from different training aspects to make one that worked well for himself...then after training a few guys (not all on juice) that were stuck in a plateau to become better than they had ever dreamed possible. And if you ever decided to venture out on other boards (ie: anabolicminds, animalkits.be, musclemayham, bodybuilding.com etc etc etc...) you will read ENDLESS threads of people hailing this man is there GOD! Now i don't believe in cults or anything but I do believe he has started one. I don't see anyone on here hailing you as their God.

    And whats with this whole hatred thing against people taking roids...are you prejudice or something!? Just because someone takes a performance enhancer doesn't make them a bad person. As I said before and i'll say it again: YOU CAN TAKE ALL THE JUICE IN THE WORLD, IT ISNT GOING TO MAKE YOU THE HULK ENLESS YOU TRAIN AND EAT RIGHT! So just because someone is taking juice (which only makes a trainee recover faster) doesnt mean they are going to make better gains.

    I really don't care if you try it or not...just keep doing your 3 sets of 10, 3 day split, too much volume, overtraining special.

    I can tell we are going be the best of friends!

    Cheers
    In response to your first paragraph, you may not have been trying to slap anyone in the face, but that is what you did.

    Third paragraph. There are MANY gurus out there being hailed as gods. If you read some boards you will see many such threads hailing a particular guru as the best. I have never claimed to be one. I am however calling DogCrapp's credentials into question. So he can add muscle to people. His BEST success stories though were on steroids. Is he your god BTW? You sure seem to support him feverently.

    Fourth paragraph. No I am not prejudiced I don't hate people of a different skin color, sexual preference, or gender. Anyway I don't dislike people on steroids. I am saying that their training is not applicable to natural people so why portray it like it can?

    As for what I do, I do less volume than just about anybody on this board. Usually 6-7 work sets and I am done for the day. Yes I do a three day split...and I've put on sixty pounds (and tripled my strength) doing that. Overtrained? Most people would love to be that overtrained, that they triple their strength and gain sixty pounds.

    Yes, I can see a real friendship flourishing here! :evillaugh

    BTW read smalls' last post. There is nothing new under the sun when it comes to bodybuilding. DogCrapp's program may be very effective, but it is not new and revolutionary. Many people have gained astonishing mass and strength on other routines. I will tell you something though. You will not become a 4 lbs per inch bodybuilder like he claims, unless you use steroids and even then it's unlikely. You would have to look like Marcus Ruhl.


    Anyway I'm done. You do DogCrapp's routine, and I'll do mine, and we'll just agree to disagree. Deal?
    Last edited by Songsangnim; 12-19-2003 at 05:09 AM.

  24. #49
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    Oh one final thing. By Mr. DogCrap's own admission he has "trained 7 people bodybuilding wise in the last four years". Another post pointed out that he only trains 4 people at once. Assuming that he trains people for a whole year he should have had at least 16 clients.

    Another point:
    All these people who claim he is "god" how do they know? He didn't train them all. How do they "know" how to follow his training? Did he give it out for free? Then what would be the point of charging for his training? Either he charges for his training, and only those he trains know it works for them, or he gives it out for free and therefore why would people pay for it?

  25. #50
    Fatass STM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
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    127
    EA,

    I dont have a masters, never claimed to have. BBA, yes, masters no.

    Just for the record, I never said DC was a guru, etc. I just believe everyone should keep an open mind on the training VARIATIONS that are out there. Why not? Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

    I see you teach English in Korea, how do you like it there? I taught in taiwan for a years contract. It was pretty good money, but I was expecting food like ginger beef, lemon chicken and **** like that. Shocking that 'chinese' food, in the west, is just a made up food for Americans/Canadians.

    Anyways, good luck with your training.

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