The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

It’s no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
    Senior Member Darcy Tucker's Avatar
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    Smith Machine Deadlifts

    Does anybody do them. My back gets a bit sore from doing sumo deadlifts. Maybe I'm doing them with bad form. Plus I'm tired of my shins getting cut up. From a mechanical sense in my mind I can see the smith machine being very comfortable to use for deadlifts.

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  3. #2
    Senior Member Darcy Tucker's Avatar
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    The reason I think they would be good is because on conventional deads the bar has the tendency to get away from my shins. On a smith bar you could position the bar almost touching your shins without it tearing them up.

  4. #3
    HomeYield WillKuenzel's Avatar
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    No. Don't do it! We will be forced to hunt you down and kill you.

    Seriously though, its a bad idea. Doing them in the smith machine, can alter the way you pull and put you in a bad position. It limits movement and will be too constrictive.

    You're back will get sore from deadlifting. Period. No other way around that. Most people rip up their shins when deadlifting. Either wear high socks or pants. As funny as it sounds baby powder might help.

    But like I said, get away from the smith machine.


    ** this is not a smith machine bashing thread. It has its purposes but just not for deadlifting!
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  5. #4
    is numero uno Saint Patrick's Avatar
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    Originally posted by HomeYield
    You're back will get sore from deadlifting. Period. No other way around that.
    :withstupi

    That's like saying your legs get sore from squats man. It's part of the fun!
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  6. #5
    Senior Member Darcy Tucker's Avatar
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    ** this is not a smith machine bashing thread. It has its purposes but just not for deadlifting!
    I was using the smith machine for the first time on tuesday for close grip bench presses and now I realize why everybody talks smack about the smith machine. It really hurt my elbows.

    But anyways in my mind the smith machine seems like it would be the perfect tool for maintaining good deadlifting form. I can't see how it would contribute to rounding of the back or the bar moving far away from your shins. What I'm asking though is if it feels very comfortable for me I should stick with them right?

  7. #6
    HomeYield WillKuenzel's Avatar
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    I still wouldn't recommend it for deadlifts. I really think it changes a bit of the dynamics. Its not exactly a deadlift anymore but just a variation like, rack deads or lockouts. IMO, you won't see all the full benefits of doing free deadlifts.
    What is elite?
    "Those who work the hardest often complain the least." -anonymous
    Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional.

  8. #7
    Senior Member Darcy Tucker's Avatar
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    I'm going to give it a try tomorrow and then post my results.

  9. #8
    is numero uno Saint Patrick's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Darcy Tucker
    I'm going to give it a try tomorrow and then post my results.

    Age:30
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  10. #9
    Senior Member shootermcgavin7's Avatar
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    ok

    Originally posted by Darcy Tucker
    I'm going to give it a try tomorrow and then post my results.
    Not to bash or anything, but you asked people for advice, and everyone told you not to use a Smith machine for deadlifts.

    It just seems to me like you had made up your mind to use it before you even posted.

  11. #10
    Baby Seal Clubber ElPietro's Avatar
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    I will never understand why people use a machine that forces you into a fixed plane ROM for exercises that do not have a fixed plane ROM.

    Perhaps you don't understand enough about deadlifts to realistically think that doing them on the smith will give you "good" form. But as the above guy said, I don't think it mattered what anyone said, since you are going to do them anyway.

    Just don't call them deadlifts, don't expect the same results as if you were doing deadlifts. You'll also probably easily pull a lot more weight too, but don't think you are stronger because of that.
    Deadlifts are like women, they'll hurt you everytime, but they'll also make you a man. - Me

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  12. #11
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    DL on a smith machine... to coin a phrase off Mr. T 'you's a fool, sucker!'

    Not a wise move really, SLDL may be excusable (not for me tho) but full DL, no way Jose.

    ElPietro: nice quotes bro!
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  13. #12
    Senior Member Darcy Tucker's Avatar
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    I'm going to try them out today. I don't know why you wouldn't call them deadlifts though. If you bench press on a smith machine..it is essentially a smith machine bench press. If you lift weight from the ground (pending the smith machine allows the weight to almost touch the ground) to an upright standing position..you hence pulled the weight off the ground and did a smith machine deadlift.

  14. #13
    Toughest Man in the World Bruise Brubaker's Avatar
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    I pity the fool who deadlift on the smith machine!

  15. #14
    JustBecameAdaDDy entrrt's Avatar
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    Darcy....i just added deads 3 weeks ago to my workout(i've NEVER done them mind you) and yes, i ALSO get those scuffed shins and a lil'soreness in the back. however,i have never once thought of switching to the smith machine. why cheat yourself out of the full benefit of doing DL's for a few scrapped shins?! i think you just need more time to work on your form. no one ever said DL's were easy, but in the end they'll payoff if done the "un-assisted" way! good luck!
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  16. #15
    Baby Seal Clubber ElPietro's Avatar
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    If you understood the concept of leverage, and how much mechanical advantage you'd gain from the smith, then you'd understand it would be vastly different from a deadlift, in terms relative resistance, sticking points, and ROM. It's actually going to give you bad form, but go ahead, just don't think you are working all the same muscles in all the same ways.

    None of the exercises you listed have a completely vertical ROM, so yup, none of those are the same either. It's not going to keep your form proper, it's actually going to make your form worse, and the day you dash your training wheels and try it with free weights you'll find yourself a whole helluva lot weaker on that particular lift, having leaned on the mechanical advantages gained through the smith machine.

    There's nothing wrong with the machine itself, it's people who think they can use it to adequately train a different freeweight compound exercise that's the problem.
    Deadlifts are like women, they'll hurt you everytime, but they'll also make you a man. - Me

    Friends don't let friends do dumbell kickbacks. - Me

    ElP is the smartest man in the world. - Gyno Rhino

    A low voter turnout is an indication of fewer people going to the polls. -- Dan Quayle

    If do right, no can defense. -- Mr. Miyagi

    Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey:

    I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it.

    Is there anything more beautiful than a beautiful, beautiful flamingo, flying across in front of a beautiful sunset? And he's carrying a beautiful rose in his beak, and also he's carrying a very beautiful painting with his feet. And also, you're drunk.

    Current FFFA Enforcer

  17. #16
    Cyber Playa AllUp's Avatar
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    True, your losing out on some killer core strength gains with the smith as you dont really require much manual stabilization of the weight and your not really hitting up ur stabilizers. I've seen peeps get hurt because of that S***, no stabilizers=crap form in most if not all cases.

    Smith as a newbie is Ok, but ditch the machine. your gimping yourself in the long run.
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  18. #17
    Gonnabebig Member JuniorMint6669's Avatar
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    When you pull, you pull at an angle, not straight up.

    Get up and go deadlift something, anything. Now try doing it moving the object straight up. You will notice the object several inches in front of you, as opposed to resting on your thighs. I would imagine this puts a lot of pressure on your shoulders. You could compensate by swaying back and pushing your hips forward, but this is terrible form, and not really a DL.

  19. #18
    Senior Member Darcy Tucker's Avatar
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    I'm not trying to get in a pissing match with you guys or anything I just want some more advice.

    I tried them out today. I usually do sumo style but with the smith machine I tried conventional. I put my shins touching the bar as it lay on the ground. Throughout the whole lift I was able to keep my back nicely arched and my legs were almost always in direct contact with the bar. My question for you guys is this movement dangerous for my back. I realize it might not be as productive as a normal deadlift I just want to make sure it doesn't hurt my back. Obviously I have more leverage and can do more weight this way but If i load it up to a point were it is challenging and I keep on progressing I can't see how it would be bad for me to do this.

    I realize that the conventional way to do deadlifts is more productive but I find this way much more comfortable and fun and for this reason am more likely to get excited and motivated for it. But I am very skeptical on whether or not this will hurt my lower back in the long run. It felt very comfortable this time. Thanks guys.

  20. #19
    HomeYield WillKuenzel's Avatar
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    IMO, because of the angle, it will take out most of the lower back work. Thus as you continue, your lower back wil not get the work it used to. From here it will probably get weaker unless you do more lower back specific work.
    What is elite?
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    Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional.

  21. #20
    SFW! drew's Avatar
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    Why destroy your shins? Begin your lift with the bar 2-3 inches away from your shins and PULL it, don't drag it up your legs. That's a lot like cheating the lift (and chewing your shins to pieces).

    I just don't see the benefit to doing DLs on a Smith machine.

    Now what happens if you miss a rep at the lockout portion and your knees aren't straight? If you drop the bar, it won't move in any direction but straight down. Bye bye knees.

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  22. #21
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    I am not a real big proponent of the Smith, but it is still progressive resistance. Deadlifts are not the bodybuilding cure-all that so many seem to think they are these days. You can get real big without performing deadlifts at all.

    To jump on the guy for doing them on a Smith machine makes no sense to me because it is still a lift which involves all of the major muscle groups and the ability to use progressive resistance.

    If you like the exercise Darcy, then you should by all means continue to practice it.


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  23. #22
    Proud Father Maki Riddington's Avatar
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    What Chris said.
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