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Thread: failure question

  1. #1
    wooooo Jasonl's Avatar
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    failure question

    hey everyone, i'm currently cutting, would you all recommend training to failure while on a cut? i wouldn't think of this is being beneficial in any way as you are on a calorie deficit while cutting and therefor no new muscle would be aqquired. i could actual see it being harmful. any help would be great, thanks!






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    Last edited by chris mason; 12-06-2003 at 05:29 PM.

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    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    If I took your theory to its logical conclusion then one should not stimulate the muscle at all while in a calorie deficit.

    I think training to failure is an excellent way in which to train especially for bodybuilders. It does not matter if you are dieting to lose weight or not.


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  3. #3
    Tearing **** Up FortifiedIron's Avatar
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    If your cutting then your energy levels will be low, and therefor so will your recovery levels. Thus this would make you more prone to over training. If you were to train to failure on a regular bases during this time you are just fatiguing your CNS to the point to where it cannot supply enough motor neurons to stimulate the realease of the C++ for the contraction and it would just become even weaker after each training session.


    Kc

  4. #4
    Senior Member Trent_Steel's Avatar
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    I think failure is a good habit to get into. If you don't do it when you cutting your body might learn not to push yourself as hard when your bulking

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    zen idiot Scott S's Avatar
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    I personally think it makes more sense not to train to failure while cutting, because then you can train with more frequency. Your muscles are already in a catabolic state, why make the recovery take longer than it has to?

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    Tearing **** Up FortifiedIron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trent_Steel
    I think failure is a good habit to get into. If you don't do it when you cutting your body might learn not to push yourself as hard when your bulking

    How is that pushing yourself? I know of ways to push myself that are horrible and make me wanna puke but have nothing to do with training to failure.


    Kc

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    Quote Originally Posted by FortifiedIron
    How is that pushing yourself? I know of ways to push myself that are horrible and make me wanna puke but have nothing to do with training to failure.


    Kc
    I would like for you to fill me in on some of these methods. I have never been able to understand how one can push themselves really hard but still stop short of failure. I'm not saying it can't be done, I just don't know how and I would be interested in finding out

  8. #8
    Senior Member Manveet's Avatar
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    From personally experience, I've kept more muscle on during my recent cut (using HST, not going to failure), than my previous cut where I was training low volume going to failure.
    "It is often said, mainly by the "no-contests", that although there is no positive evidence for the existence of God, nor is there evidence against his existence. So it is best to keep an open mind and be agnostic. At first sight that seems an unassailable position, at least in the weak sense of Pascal's wager. But on second thought it seems a cop-out, because the same could be said of Father Christmas and tooth fairies. There may be fairies at the bottom of the garden. There is no evidence for it, but you can't prove that there aren't any, so shouldn't we be agnostic with respect to fairies?"

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  9. #9
    Tearing **** Up FortifiedIron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thetopdog
    I would like for you to fill me in on some of these methods. I have never been able to understand how one can push themselves really hard but still stop short of failure. I'm not saying it can't be done, I just don't know how and I would be interested in finding out
    Its called decreasing rest periods adding sets/reps, exercises.

    Do 2 sets of 40 db snatches, followed up with 2 sets of 10 turkish get ups, then 2 sets of sost press for 10 reps, and then go and do rope intervals for 12-15 mins. All with very short rest periods.


    Kc

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    Quote Originally Posted by FortifiedIron
    Its called decreasing rest periods adding sets/reps, exercises.

    Do 2 sets of 40 db snatches, followed up with 2 sets of 10 turkish get ups, then 2 sets of sost press for 10 reps, and then go and do rope intervals for 12-15 mins. All with very short rest periods.


    Kc
    I have NO idea what any of those exercises are, that's probably why I didn't understand in the first place

  11. #11
    Tearing **** Up FortifiedIron's Avatar
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    look up some stuff by John Davies, THib, Mike Mahler, etc.. on T-mag


    Kc

  12. #12
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    I think different people have varying tolerances for failure training. Based on my experience I take all this CNS talk with a grain of salt. Try it out and see how it works for you. If it starts to have a negative affect on your training then stop doing it.

  13. #13
    zen idiot Scott S's Avatar
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    That's a good outlook, Neil. I guess it's because my body doesn't seem to respond as well to infrequent, failure training that I have a bias against it. Some people really bounce back easily from going to hard failure.

  14. #14
    HomeYield WillKuenzel's Avatar
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    When cutting, I still tended to train to failure but cut the volume back, alot. I did increase the frequency of how often I trained. Because of how I've been training for so long, I just like training to failure but tend to try to manipulate my sets, reps, rest periods so I can do it, whether cutting or bulking.
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  15. #15
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FortifiedIron
    If your cutting then your energy levels will be low, and therefor so will your recovery levels. Thus this would make you more prone to over training. If you were to train to failure on a regular bases during this time you are just fatiguing your CNS to the point to where it cannot supply enough motor neurons to stimulate the realease of the C++ for the contraction and it would just become even weaker after each training session.


    Kc

    Can you explain what you mean here? I don't think you meant to say "supply enough motor neurons to stimulate the release of Ca2+".
    Last edited by chris mason; 12-08-2003 at 06:43 PM.


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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jasonl
    hey everyone, i'm currently cutting, would you all recommend training to failure while on a cut? i wouldn't think of this is being beneficial in any way as you are on a calorie deficit while cutting and therefor no new muscle would be aqquired. i could actual see it being harmful. any help would be great, thanks!






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    Personally, I reccomend always training to failure. It's not like training to absolute, total muscle failure will burn any more calories, it's all neurological. If anything, it will help you maintain strength levels, which in turn my help you retain more muscle mass. Combined with lowered volume, and infrequent training, and lots and lots of cardio, you have a recipe for success in regards to fat loss.

  17. #17
    zen idiot Scott S's Avatar
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    Just out of curiosity, how does reduced frequency help one hold on to muscle mass?

  18. #18
    Cutting . . . Crystallio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott S
    Just out of curiosity, how does reduced frequency help one hold on to muscle mass?
    I think he's assuming that normal volume during a cut is detrimental because it overtaxes the CNS. I'm kind of new to cycles, so I can't speak from personal experience. However, I think Neil hit the nail on the head with experimenting to see which method is most beneficial to you.
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  19. #19
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    Training with decreased frequency can be beneficial to maintaining or gaining muscle mass if the trainee requires more rest in order to be properly recuperated before their next session. It is an indiviual thing.
    Last edited by Joe Black; 12-09-2003 at 09:23 AM.


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  20. #20
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    quit referring to the CNS in your posts, I don't know how you are "burning out your CNS" from weight training. The CNS consists of the brain, and spinal cord and the skeletal muscles, which are burned out from weight training, are part of the PNS.

  21. #21
    Senior Member smalls's Avatar
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    I think the best way to train to keep muscle while cutting is the way that you put on the muscle in the first place. For me that's with failure training.
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