When you say "1 or 2 strong teams in the East" you should definitely use BB code to make it read "1 or 2 strong teams in the East. They wouldn't be strong if they had to play the Western teams 4 times instead of the other way around.
"Marbury is good. But a player on a team isn't, or at least shouldn't be, judged on his individual stats. If you're not putting wins in the win column, you're overrated."
Well, to a certain extent you're correct. However, a player cannot win by himself. Look at the greatest player of all time, MJ. When he started to win he had a nucleus of solid players including one of the 50 greatest players in scottie pippen. As well, the other pg's you mentioned, aside from kidd, are not the primary players on their team. Cassell has Garnett and Sprewell, Nash has Dirk, Finley, Walker, Jamison, etc., Payton has Malone, Shaq and Kobe. James has nobody but we established that he's a year or two away from being mentioned among the top 5 pgs considering he may not even continue to bring the ball up the floor.
OK, Scottie Pippen is not one of the 50 greatest. That was a huge joke. Jordan won games because he was given the triangle offense and had competent players. Similar to how the Lakers run the triangle so well even though they're filled with average players like Fox and George and company.
However, what great players does Kidd play with now or when he reached the finals with the Suns? When the Bucks gave the 76ers a run for their money a few years back, who did Cassell have then? Who did Payton have in Seattle when they reached the Finals?
You don't need great teammates to make a team great. You just need to be great.
Marbury has not achieved the type of team success that the other PGs you mentioned have until this past year. He showed that he is now comfortable being a leader and is playing like one. When the Suns played the Spurs, if Marbury wasn't hurt, I wouldn't have bet against them. Parker could not stop Marbury - in fact, no one on the Spurs could stop him.
Give me this version of Marbury to build a team around over Kidd, Nash, Bibby, and Payton anyday. Kidd is a whiner and look at Dallas and now NJ to see my point. Nash has heart but he's brittle and benefits from all the other stars. Bibby? Please! Bobby Jackson plays better than him. Payton is past his prime so he's not an option as is Cassell. King James? Not yet but soon.
Amen!Originally Posted by Saturday Fever
Kidd never reached the finals with the suns - that was Barkley.However, what great players does Kidd play with now or when he reached the finals with the Suns? When the Bucks gave the 76ers a run for their money a few years back, who did Cassell have then? Who did Payton have in Seattle when they reached the Finals?
Cassell had Ray Allen and Glenn robinson - both All Stars.
Payton had Shawn Kemp, another All Star.
Kidd reaching the Finals with NJ is just another example of how pathetic the East has become. When they reached the Finals, they were/are a flawed team but they played as a team and won in a weaker conference. Good team chemistry can make up for a lack of overall talent (to a point). However, Kidd has helped to destroy that chemistry with his lack of support to Byron Scott and his erratic play this season.
Are you joking me!? Do not nit pick. It is irrelevant if you consider Pippen one of the 50 greatest or 100 greatest.Originally Posted by Saturday Fever
Kidd never went to the finals with the Suns, learn your basketball history. As well, I agreed with you that Kidd is a better pg than Starbury, however he is the only one out of the 5 you mentioned that is currently better. Not to mention that if you mean that he went to the finals with the Nets that is because like YOU mentioned the East is so bad. Put him in the West again and see what he can do. He didn't seem to have too much success with the Mavs or even the Suns.
Cassell and his team, with Ray Allen and the big dog, both better than him, lost in the playoffs a few years back and yet you're using this as proof that he is better than Marbury? PLEASE.
Payton was a fantastic player, but he is CURRENTLY not as good as Marbury, and like Hobbes mentioned he had Kemp, and lets not forget Delef Schrempf.
Again, Marbury is a top 5 PG in the league, if not among the top 2 or 3.
I love this trade for the Nicks
they could make a few more good moves also
I think it's time to deal houston
not that I don't like him but I think it would rejuvinate his career and they could get a big name for him
Shawn KempOriginally Posted by Saturday Fever
inarguably one of the top 5 powerforwards that year
how bout 10 blocks in a single gameOriginally Posted by Saturday Fever