View Poll Results: Do you think the principals actions are justifiable?

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  • I think what the principal did is ok, the child shouldn't have that haircut at that age

    4 16.00%
  • I disagree with the principals actions. If the haircut was acceptable to the parents then the public school principal had no right to change it

    17 68.00%
  • Lay off the coffee Geoff...nobody gives a poop about this!

    0 0%
  • I have a slightly different opinion that there isn't a poll option for

    4 16.00%
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Thread: Child's mohawk causes debate...

  1. #1
    Senior Member geoffgarcia's Avatar
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    Child's mohawk causes debate...

    I was horrified when I read this article on CNN this morning....

    Child's mohawk causes debate
    AUBURN, California (AP) -- It used to be that schoolchildren might get their mouths washed out for using blue language. These days at Pleasant Ridge Elementary School, they're more likely to have their hair washed out -- for sporting a blue mohawk.

    Parents of a 6-year-old boy say they plan to consult an attorney after a school principal washed bright blue dye out of their son's punk-style haircut.

    Levey Padocs Jr.'s father said he allowed his son to get the distinctive 'do more than a month ago for behaving better in class.

    But parents of the boy's kindergarten classmates complained the haircut would spoil an upcoming class photo, so Principal Derek Cooper said he washed the boy's hair in the nurse's office after getting permission from the boy's mother.

    The boy's father said neither he nor the mother approved the washing. They plan to discuss the situation with an attorney.

    "Leave him alone. He's not a problem child. He's not hurting anyone," Levey Padocs Sr. said. "He's an individual, and that's how he's expressing his individuality."
    http://us.cnn.com/2004/US/West/04/05....ap/index.html
    seeing as I've had way to much coffee in me and I haven't written a letter in ages, I've decided to write this principal and tell him what a horse's ass he is.

    If anyone else is interested in writing him here is the info:
    Principal Derek Cooper
    Pleasant Ridge Elementary School
    16229 Duggans Road
    Grass Valley, CA 95949

    while I'm at it, maybe I'll write Arnold too!
    Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger, State Capitol Building - Sacramento, CA 95814
    governor@governor.ca.gov

    I haven't finished my letter yet, I want to add as much bite as possible and I am not so good with the keyboard (aka pen), so if anyone has any advice, don't hold back! so far my letter reads:

    Mr. Cooper ,
    I was horrified when I read the story "Child's mohawk causes debate" at http://us.cnn.com/2004/US/West/04/05....ap/index.html

    That an elementary school principal would take it upon him/herself to change the appearance of a 6 year old to conform to societal norms. I think this is a slap in the face to America's First Amendment.
    What is the California education system telling children about acceptance, understanding and diversity?
    Last edited by geoffgarcia; 04-05-2004 at 09:44 AM.

  2. #2
    Hungry BCC's Avatar
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    This just opens up a whole new world of problems entirely.

    I know at my highschool girls couldn't wear low cut shirts, low cut jeans, short shorts and all sorts of ****.


    I think the principle saw the child as a distraction to other children and acted on impulse.
    Last edited by BCC; 04-05-2004 at 01:40 PM.
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  3. #3
    Senior Member geoffgarcia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCC
    This just opens up a whole new world of problems entirely.

    I know at my highschool girls couldn't wear low cut shirts, low cut jeans, short shorts and all sorts of ****.

    I think the principle saw the child as a distraction to other children and acted on impulse.
    IMHO there is a difference in clothes that are revealing vs makeup, colored hair, tattoos, piercings, etc...
    Heck, now my twisted brain if really in a knot *LOL* I'm thinking back on my youth, I was brought up in a 99.99% white community, I was the .001% minority based on my last name alone. If you brought in a kid with a blue mohawk vs an immigrant or minority I think I would have a hard time picking which is the bigger distraction.

    Anywhich way, I sure wouldn't want a principal that acts on impulse and can pull a kid out of class without consulting with parents and do this type of thing to them, next thing you know they are gonna be pulling them outta class and giving the rambunctious kids sedatives...on impulse...

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenEric
    As a tax payer, I would rather have the principal spending his/her time working on direct education standards and not pissing away a day in a court over blue hair.
    I understand what your saying, I just disagree.
    As a tax payer, paying the principals salary I agree I'd rather not have him waste a day in court...rather I'd want him fired straight off.

    I think the concept of conformity in the work place is pretty much going out the window. I've been consulting for several years now and have hopped from fortune 100 client to client, none have any sort of dress code nor set style for hair.
    I've seen male VP's with hair down to their ass, directors riding in on harleys with tattoos up and down their forearms, leather pants, shorts, sneakers, tank tops, you name it.
    I think there might be more of a "dress code" in small office where a tight ass manager might being a conservative. But in the larger HQ's w/ offices of 1000+ dress code is non existent in my experience.

    I've been in pharma and telecommunications companies, in R&D, IT, customer service and marketing divisions.
    I assumed my travels were fairly representative of white collar, but I guess we've had different experiences.
    My coworkers and I have no problems wearing sneakers/jeans/tshirts every day to work. Granted anyone in front of a customer probably adheres more to a dress code (vendors, sales people, etc...)

  4. #4
    Senior Member DokterVet's Avatar
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    The principal had no right to do that.

    Why can't a kid have a blue mohawk? In response to the parents that said he would "ruin" the upcoming class photo, I'd probably say, "Look lady, your kid is ugly. He'll ruin the photo because he is so surprisingly ugly."

  5. #5
    Jack's Utter Surprise Saturday Fever's Avatar
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    It's this lovely slippery slope we're on where offensive is against the rules, or illegal.

  6. #6
    Senior Member geoffgarcia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DokterVet
    In response to the parents that said he would "ruin" the upcoming class photo, I'd probably say, "Look lady, your kid is ugly. He'll ruin the photo because he is so surprisingly ugly."
    blue mohawk hair cut 45$
    pierced dangly skull earrings 15$
    wife beater with ketchup and chocolate milk stains 3$
    your kid is STILL cooler and better looking than angry moms' ugly kids priceless!

  7. #7
    July 4th, 2016 SonOfLiberty's Avatar
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    I think one important thing most of you won't understand is the city of Auburn. Now it's been a few years since I've visited there, and this doesn't excuse the principal, but it explains the behavior. Aubrun/Grass Valley is probably the most clean cut straight forward place I've ever seen. It is not a big city, it's up in the hills where clean cut traditional white kids ride dirt bikes and go hunting/fishing. Any stray from that norm usually gets a reaction, which is a bit surprising for me to read about a kid no less will blue hair.

    As I said, it doesn't make the principal's behavior acceptable, it is just explaining it.

    Also, your tax dollars aren't paying for this school geoff, but I get your point
    ...whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government,...

  8. #8
    Jack's Utter Surprise Saturday Fever's Avatar
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    It's definitely been a while since you've been to Auburn. Auburn has gone through serious changes in the last 8 years or so. Most of the kids are stoners, a lot of the adults are stoners. Skater punks and wannabe rebellious kids with funny colored hair are everywhere in Auburn.

  9. #9
    July 4th, 2016 SonOfLiberty's Avatar
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    Been about 4 years I think. But it makes sense with all that space up there to grow weed. Bums.
    ...whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government,...

  10. #10
    Party of "No." Tryska's Avatar
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    i'm not sure what to think on this subject.

    on the one hand, sure it's a public school and freedom of expression and blah blah blah.

    ont he other hand, i believe public school kids should wear uniforms.
    Last edited by Tryska; 04-05-2004 at 03:02 PM.
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  11. #11
    July 4th, 2016 SonOfLiberty's Avatar
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    Uniform and dress codes exclude hair though. (I don't know actually)
    ...whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government,...

  12. #12
    July 4th, 2016 SonOfLiberty's Avatar
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    oh, as for the freedom of expression.....it's a 6 year old! Sounds more like the parents freedom of expression than a 6 year olds.

    Either way he should be allowed to keep it, as absurd as it is.
    ...whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government,...

  13. #13
    Party of "No." Tryska's Avatar
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    yeah, i'm not sure actually. seems like a question we should look to the brits to answer.
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  14. #14
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    I don't think he had the right to touch the kid. If they didn't like should have met with the parents. If that didn't work sent him home.
    Personally I don't think the hair is a big deal. Your jsut giving the kid more attention. What they probably should have done is stuck him in the back of the picture or not allow him to be in it. Though parents probably would sued over that.

    I don't beleive in uniforms in public schools. Private is fine its your choice to send your kid there. But why should the school be allowed to dictate what someones child can wear to that degree. Not to mention could make it hard on the poor.

  15. #15
    Equal Opportunity Offender Budiak's Avatar
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    I wish they'd kicked me out of the class photo when I was really fat. Maybe then I would have learned to move my ass a little earlier in life.

  16. #16
    Party of "No." Tryska's Avatar
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    berserker - i would think it would make it easier on the poor, since there isn't so much distraction and competition to keep up with the latest fashion trends. i know in my school system poor kids got picked on for not having the right clothes, and that started in first grade. that stuff didn't happen when i was in catholic school.

    as for whether the princi0pla had any right to touch the kids haior - no i don't believe he did. Being sent home would have been different.
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  17. #17
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    When I was in school they wouldnt let me leave my hair grow long. It was a public school, but they said it didnt fit in with the schools image.

    Its easy to understand why the principal felt the way he does that however wont change the fact that he is wrong.

    Lots of schools in Ireland anyway, have school rules. If you want your child to attend a particular school then you are expected to adhere to their rules. I think this is fair enough.

  18. #18
    Party of "No." Tryska's Avatar
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    did you have uniforms ftotti? In your public school?
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  19. #19
    Bad Monkey! Nights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SonOfLiberty
    oh, as for the freedom of expression.....it's a 6 year old! Sounds more like the parents freedom of expression than a 6 year olds.

    Either way he should be allowed to keep it, as absurd as it is.
    I wouldn't say it's parents freedom of expression. Friends little girl has wanted a skateboard since she was two, and wants her ears pierced and stuff like that. She's four now, so that's two years of asking for something. Mother has promised it all to her when she turns six if she still wants it.

    I'm pretty sure if a six year old sees mohawks on tv or someone he knows has one, and likes it, then he might have decided he wanted one.

    And I can also see her parents telling him that if he did good in school they'd do it. In a way, I encourage that practice. It's nothing permanent, nothing harmful, and it allows the child to try out something new and be different from the crowd. Principal didn't have any right to touch the kid without consulting the parents.

    And that's enough thinking for this early in the morning.
    Last edited by Nights; 04-06-2004 at 08:34 AM.
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  20. #20
    Banned Reinier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SonOfLiberty
    Uniform and dress codes exclude hair though. (I don't know actually)
    I think in a British boarding school where people wear uniforms kids certainly get in trouble for extreme hair

  21. #21
    Professional hobbit Focused70's Avatar
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    They say that law firms are the last bastion of conservatism and dress codes and that couldn't be more true.

    My firm was one of the last ones to institute a "casual Friday" dress code back in the late '90's. It was only when our primary client went casual 24/7 that we too followed suit. Of course now that the economy isn't doing that great, the threat of a return to "normalcy" has always hung over our heads but I think that the staff would rebel before that happened. I think that casualness is here to stay -- but this is casualness within a defined set of parameters. For instance, whilst the evening and graveyard shifts can get away with more than you'd see people wear during the day, although I come to work with collarless shirts and khaki pants all the time, I'd never be able to come in with spandex shorts or sweatpants (like some temp paralegals have on occasion).

    As for the principal being out of bounds -- schools and teachers have, in most situations, no business acting as surrogate parents. That's the parents' job first and foremost. This wasn't a case of parental negligience bordering on the criminal, this was just a case of a boy choosing to express his own individuality in his own way. The school's reaction was akin to using a sledgehammer to swat a fly. Way off base.

    The principal's story sounds like a bunch of caca, probably something he dreamed up just to cover his own hide. It's a pity that in this day and age, if you don't conform, you're considered out of sync with the rest of the population regardless of whether you're an adult or a six year old boy.

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  22. #22
    y0 aidano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ftotti10
    When I was in school they wouldnt let me leave my hair grow long. It was a public school, but they said it didnt fit in with the schools image.

    Its easy to understand why the principal felt the way he does that however wont change the fact that he is wrong.

    Lots of schools in Ireland anyway, have school rules. If you want your child to attend a particular school then you are expected to adhere to their rules. I think this is fair enough.
    Same as my (public) school..also in Ireland. We weren't allowed hair going down further than the collar, and girls skirts were supposed to be below knee length. If it's not stated in the school rules then the principal has no business forcing the child's appearance to be a certain way. If it is, then sure, no big deal. I'm not too familiar with the school system in America though.
    Last edited by aidano; 04-06-2004 at 08:45 AM.

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  23. #23
    Hulking bulking bruiser Minotaur's Avatar
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    While I think it's stupid for a 6 year old to be sporting a blue mohawk, or purple spikes, or wearing studded black leather, the principal of that school had no right to do what he did. He should have explained to the parents that the boy's appearance didn't fit in with the majority image. If the parents were adamant about the kid keeping his blue hair, the principal could have refused him being in the picture. After all, as the principal, he sets the standards for the school.

    The principal of my public school in Newark, NJ made the boys wear ties, and the girls wear dresses or skirts. She was competing with the nearby Catholic school. But she was a kook anyway, and it was 35 years ago, so maybe that's not a good example.

    And while I don't necessarily agree with majority rule when it comes to depriving individuals of rights, let's use a little common sense here. No ones rights were violated or abridged. Let the kid have his blue hair on the weekend or school holidays.

    They were all wrong, all around.

    Personally I think it's the parents that should have their heads shoved into a toilet bowl. Amateur parents.

  24. #24
    Senior Member geoffgarcia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reinier
    I think in a British boarding school where people wear uniforms kids certainly get in trouble for extreme hair
    are boarding schools the equivalent to american private schools?


    Quote Originally Posted by Minotaur
    The principal of my public school in Newark, NJ made the boys wear ties, and the girls wear dresses or skirts. She was competing with the nearby Catholic school. But she was a kook anyway, and it was 35 years ago, so maybe that's not a good example.
    when I was in elementary school 20 years ago the teachers had paddles and would hit kids in the hands, legs, back, etc for misbehaving.
    Times r a changin

    I was waiting till the day I was old enough to pick up one of those paddles and crack those teachers across the face with them.
    Last edited by geoffgarcia; 04-06-2004 at 09:34 AM.

  25. #25
    Hulking bulking bruiser Minotaur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by geoffgarcia
    I was waiting till the day I was old enough to pick up one of those paddles and crack those teachers across the face with them.
    There ya go! I'm all for it. The nuns at Sacred Heart School (the school Mrs. Cavicchia, my principal, was emulating) got away with murder. My friends who all went to SHS (so I was always the outcast, going to public school) were always telling about Sister Eulalia Reginata slapping someone or otherwise meting out corporal punishment.

    Mrs. Cavicchia's sister, Mrs. Rinaldi was my 2nd grade teacher. What a bitch! All the parents went to Mrs. Cavicchia to complain, but this kook, defending her sister said all children make up stories. Then in 7th grade I had Mrs. Rinaldi's daughter! Much different than her mother.

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