The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

It’s no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
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    Cackerot (& other smart ppl), best exercises for arm mass? (tri/bi ex's)

    Hey, what are the best bicep/tricep exercises for mass? I'm happy w/ the way my biceps are (cause they're wide), but my triceps seem "skinny". I mean when I flex them they protrude, but they're not "thick". What exercises would make them thicker/wider?

    I'm currently doing skullcrushers, tricep extensions (dumbbell behind the neck, on the seat), and tricep cable pressdowns. I haven't worked out for very long, but I want to use the exercises that are best for thickness (if it even matters, i don't really know). Also I do bar dips at the end of my chest/tri workout.

    Even before training, my biceps were thick/round but my triceps aren't. Sorry for overexplaining but I wanted to make sure you know what I'm asking. Thanks
    Stats
    Age: 22 Height: 5'-8" Weight: 175 (6-10-07)
    BF: 13.2% (6-10-07 w/ calipers)

    Lifts
    Bench: 300x1 (9-22-06)
    Squat: 285x4
    Deadlift: 225x10

    Long-term Goals
    Weight: 180 BF: 8% Bench: 315x1

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  3. #2
    Senior Member Cackerot69's Avatar
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    I dunno if I'm the best person to ask for arm training advice

    But, whether or not they "protrude" or whatever is very dependant on genetics. Don't bother yourself with targeting different tricep heads and whatnot, focus on progressively adding weight to your tricep exercises.

    I would drop some of those exercises, and give arms their own day. And for biceps do 2 sets of BB curls for 4-8 reps, and 1 set for 8-12. Then follow up with 1-2 sets of hammer curls. Add weight and/or reps every week. For triceps do 2 sets of 4-8 on skullcrushers, and one set of 8-12. And *maybe* add another exercise for 1-2 sets, although I don't think it's necessary. Add weight and/or reps here too (on everything, for that matter).

    How is the rest of your training?

  4. #3
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    Thanks for the advice. I'm frustrated about weightlifting now, because you (among others) tell me to lower sets/exercises, but it just doesn't feel like I'm working that muscle (any muscle) enough when I only do that many sets! (even though I go to failure on all sets and do 6-8 reps)

    When I do more exercises/sets, I can feel that particular muscle tighten and it feels tense until 1 or 2 days afterwards. Is this not a good thing? I just want to make sure I don't UNDERtrain. (but of course I don't want to overtrain either)

    When you said to give a day for arms, do you mean bis/tris on the same day? Right now it's chest/tris, legs, back/bis/shoulders.

    My chest exercises are flat bench (3 sets), incline dumbbells (2 sets), and flat flyes (2 sets).

    Back exercises are dumbbell rows (3 sets), pullups (2 sets), and shrugs (3 sets).

    Shoulders are front dumbbell raises (2 sets), lateral raises (2 sets), and dumbbell shoulder press (3 sets).

    Legs are squats (3 sets), hamstring curls (3 sets), seated calf raises (3 sets), and sometimes I do legpress (2 sets).

    Bis are preacher curls (3 sets) and hammer curls (2 or 3 sets).

    I think that's everything (except tris but that's in the first post)

    Do you recommend a different split such as chest/back, legs/abs, tris/bis? (where would shoulders go?)

    Recommend anything you think will help me gain strength/size! Thanks
    Last edited by jww13; 10-08-2001 at 03:37 PM.
    Stats
    Age: 22 Height: 5'-8" Weight: 175 (6-10-07)
    BF: 13.2% (6-10-07 w/ calipers)

    Lifts
    Bench: 300x1 (9-22-06)
    Squat: 285x4
    Deadlift: 225x10

    Long-term Goals
    Weight: 180 BF: 8% Bench: 315x1

  5. #4
    WannaSeeAbs Member
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    if u want mass concentrate on big compount movements......

    chest,back,legs

    i would work those 3 muscles hard ... arms are gonna do nothing for ya as far as mass.......

  6. #5
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    I want strength too so it won't hurt to work all my muscles It'll only help right?
    Stats
    Age: 22 Height: 5'-8" Weight: 175 (6-10-07)
    BF: 13.2% (6-10-07 w/ calipers)

    Lifts
    Bench: 300x1 (9-22-06)
    Squat: 285x4
    Deadlift: 225x10

    Long-term Goals
    Weight: 180 BF: 8% Bench: 315x1

  7. #6
    WannaSeeAbs Member
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    compound movements for more strength!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  8. #7
    MA's Bionic Creation syntekz's Avatar
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    He want's bigger Triceps; so he should work his triceps out.

    Good tricep exercise is overhead dumb. press.

  9. #8
    Soon to be lean... Joe Black's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Cackerot69
    I dunno if I'm the best person to ask for arm training advice

    But, whether or not they "protrude" or whatever is very dependant on genetics. Don't bother yourself with targeting different tricep heads and whatnot, focus on progressively adding weight to your tricep exercises.

    I would drop some of those exercises, and give arms their own day. And for biceps do 2 sets of BB curls for 4-8 reps, and 1 set for 8-12. Then follow up with 1-2 sets of hammer curls. Add weight and/or reps every week. For triceps do 2 sets of 4-8 on skullcrushers, and one set of 8-12. And *maybe* add another exercise for 1-2 sets, although I don't think it's necessary. Add weight and/or reps here too (on everything, for that matter).

    How is the rest of your training?
    good advice..

    Looks like you are doing way to much work..

    Also how are you eating.. You won't grow if you are not eating enough..
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  10. #9
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    You dont need to be smart to answer this post.

    Adding mass and strength to your body is not rocket science and you should'nt confuse it in such a way.

    You're getting too mixed up my friend. Details, details, details. If you spent more eating, relaxing and just enjoying the joys of lifting then you would be amazed at the results. Dont get bogged down with tricep pushdowns, skull crushers and all that crap. As someone has mentioned, concentrate on the compound movements and you WILL get bigger.

    You're interested in big arms. Dip and dip hard. Every 5 days or so. Chin and chin hard. Hard meaning intensively and progressively, add weights or reps each week. Add a curl in there after your chins if you feel your not getting the 'pump', but getting the 'pump' will do jack for your size and strength gains sorry to have to dissapoint you.

    Oh, and dont forget to squat, if the only exercise you do is a squat then your arms will still grow believe it or not.

    PM me if you want a routine.

    Good luck and happy lifting.

  11. #10
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Cackerot69
    I dunno if I'm the best person to ask for arm training advice

    But, whether or not they "protrude" or whatever is very dependant on genetics. Don't bother yourself with targeting different tricep heads and whatnot, focus on progressively adding weight to your tricep exercises.

    I would drop some of those exercises, and give arms their own day. And for biceps do 2 sets of BB curls for 4-8 reps, and 1 set for 8-12. Then follow up with 1-2 sets of hammer curls. Add weight and/or reps every week. For triceps do 2 sets of 4-8 on skullcrushers, and one set of 8-12. And *maybe* add another exercise for 1-2 sets, although I don't think it's necessary. Add weight and/or reps here too (on everything, for that matter).

    How is the rest of your training?





    Hmmmm, that recommended arm routine sounds awfully familiar, wait just a second, I took another look at my journal, that's why it looks so familiar.....
    Last edited by chris mason; 10-09-2001 at 05:08 AM.

  12. #11
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    Originally posted by chris mason
    Hmmmm, that recommended arm routine sounds awfully familiar, wait just a second, I took another look at my journal, that's why it looks so familiar.....
    I think you might be on to something

  13. #12
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    "You're interested in big arms. Dip and dip hard. Every 5 days or so. Chin and chin hard. Hard meaning intensively and progressively, add weights or reps each week. Add a curl in there after your chins if you feel your not getting the 'pump', but getting the 'pump' will do jack for your size and strength gains sorry to have to dissapoint you. "

    Dips are good?
    I just dropped them... should i put them back
    my routine is in the thread "read this"

  14. #13
    MA's Bionic Creation syntekz's Avatar
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    Dips are good?

    Ya, dips are a mass builder. Especially weighted dips. You can do them to emphasize the chest more or the triceps more. Also; you might want to try seated dips.

    Oh, and dont forget to squat, if the only exercise you do is a squat then your arms will still grow believe it or not.

    I've heard this before; anyone want to explain to me how this is true?

  15. #14
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    Well, first, the arms are somewhat involved in the squat as they help to stabilize the bar. Second, it has been noted that the body will not grow in a completely disproportionate fashion. The body will grow, to a lesser extent in non directly targeted muscles, as a whole. If a trainee only squatted, and via this routine gained 40 lbs of bodyweight, the arms would have increased in circumference. Arthur Jones referred to this phenomenon as the "indirect effect", and it seems to be proportional to the size of the muscles trained. In other words, the larger the muscle trained, the greater the degree of growth in the muscles which were not directly trained. That is why you always see statements like "if you want big arms, you must train your legs...." etc. Another example of this effect is with training only one side of the body. If a trainee performed dumbell curls for his right arm only, and progressively increased his strength, this same trainee would also note, to a lesser degree, an increase in the strength of his left arm.

  16. #15
    Revolutionary Hercules's Avatar
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    i like close grip bench press for tris. as for bis i like preacher curls and standing bberll curls. i prefer the preacher curls though.
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  17. #16
    Senior Member flake's Avatar
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    chris: imitation is the highest form of flattery

    and yeah close grips are the she-at, I alternate tricep workouts between close grips and french press
    half the time I have no idea what you're talking about. the other half, I'm not listening.

  18. #17
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    How does this routine look?

    (I'm using letters for days because "1, 2, 3" might make you think I'm doing them every day, but I am doing them every other day)

    [======================]

    [Day A - Chest/Back]

    Flat Bench - 1x10 (warmup, light weight); 2x6-8
    Incline Dumbbells - 2x6-8
    Flat Flyes - 2x6-8

    Pullups: 2x6-8 (just bodyweight for back warmup)
    Dumbbell Rows: 2x6-8
    Shrugs: 3x6-8 (increase 5 lbs. each set)

    [======================]

    [Day B - Legs]

    Squats - 1x8 (warmup, light weight); 2x6-8
    Hamstring Curls - 3x6-8 (increasing 1 plate each set)
    Calve Raises - 3x6-10 (slow reps to feel the burn)
    Leg Extensions - 2x6-8

    [======================]

    [Day C - Shoulders/Tris/Bis]

    Dumbbell Shoulder Press: 2x6-8
    Lateral Raises - 2x6-8
    Front Raises - 2x6-8

    Skullcrushers - 2x6-8
    Close-grip Bench - 2x6-8

    Barbell Curls - 2x6-8
    Hammer Curls - 2x6-8

    [======================]



    Chris Mason, should I do a 3rd set on skullcrushers (8-12) and a 3rd set on barbell curls (8-12)? If so, would I do this before or after my 6-8rep sets? Also, what is the advantage of this? Thanks
    Stats
    Age: 22 Height: 5'-8" Weight: 175 (6-10-07)
    BF: 13.2% (6-10-07 w/ calipers)

    Lifts
    Bench: 300x1 (9-22-06)
    Squat: 285x4
    Deadlift: 225x10

    Long-term Goals
    Weight: 180 BF: 8% Bench: 315x1

  19. #18
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    I think that right now you should stick with what you have outlined. For a few recommendations, I would start with doing biceps before triceps. On the hammer curls, I would recommend you do the first set to failure for 6-8 reps, then do a breakdown set on the 2nd set. Go to failure at 6-8 reps as usual, then drop the weight by about 25% and immediately do another set. I would also not do the close grip benches on tricep day, too much chest and delt involvement. Pick another isolation exercise for the triceps and do that for 2 sets.

  20. #19
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    Chris Mason:

    Thanks for the advice. I'll try that routine w/ your suggestions for 8-10 weeks and see what improvements I get. I'm going to try to eat 5-6 meals per day and have 3000 calories per day. (I've been getting about 2500 per day).

    If I'm 132 lbs. right now, and I follow the routine and diet for 8-10 weeks, do you have a guess of what I would gain in that time? 5 lbs.? 10 lbs? (I realize some will be fat/water but if I workout then I'm sure some will be muscle).

    My relaxed arm (at my side) is 10.75 :/ (flex bicep is 12.5) and this is the main thing I want to increase. If I went up 10 lbs. would this measurement go up any you think? My stats are in my signature I think. Thanks again
    Stats
    Age: 22 Height: 5'-8" Weight: 175 (6-10-07)
    BF: 13.2% (6-10-07 w/ calipers)

    Lifts
    Bench: 300x1 (9-22-06)
    Squat: 285x4
    Deadlift: 225x10

    Long-term Goals
    Weight: 180 BF: 8% Bench: 315x1

  21. #20
    MA's Bionic Creation syntekz's Avatar
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    If you gain 10lbs of muscle your biceps better get bigger.

    (But yeah, they most likely will get bigger if you continue training them and sticking to a diet that will make you gain weight)

  22. #21
    Senior Member Cackerot69's Avatar
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    lmao, well that's my arm routine too Chris, have you copyrighted it? Just for the record I didn't even notice, but think what you may

    jww: Yes, I mean do biceps and triceps on their own day. right now my split is:

    Monday - Chest/shoulders
    Tuesday - Back
    Wednesday - Off
    Thursday - Arms
    Friday - Legs
    Saturday and Sunday - Off

    As for the extra higher rep set, it should be done after your heavy work. As for the reasoning (click application of physiology article for long ass explanation) it's just to train type IIA-I fibers specifically which will prevent plateaus (irrational hypertrophy) among other things.

  23. #22
    Soon to be lean... Joe Black's Avatar
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    Wait!!!!!! The pair of you are routine thiefs!!!! I am on the same...

    *remembers he got his routine from Chris* lol
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  24. #23
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    Well, at least it can be said that I "practice what I preach".

  25. #24
    Senior Member Cackerot69's Avatar
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    Just like almost everyone else here.

  26. #25
    WannaSeeAbs Member
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    incline dumbell curls

    than ez bar curls ( doh forgot the name )

    than hammer rope curls ( holding it at the top for 3 seconds )

    by this time the bloods gonna be flowing......


    for tri's i like the basic tricep pushdown

    and that one machine that does a tricep press im not sure what its called but ti sure gives u that pump

    than i like to finish it off with soem dips.....

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