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Thread: Plateau, time for routine change, suggestions?

  1. #1
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    Plateau, time for routine change, suggestions?

    Ok, i posted a little while ago on pleateauing in my chest... but now its spreading like a cancer... and i think i know why

    I started this routine march 1st or around there, so its been a good 8 weeks, so its about time i guess?

    Here is my current routine

    Day 1

    Arms/Shoulders

    cable bar curl 4 x 8
    cable rope pull downs 4 x 8
    db lateral raises 4 x 8
    db overhead extension 4 x 8
    db seated curl 4 x 8
    hs (hammerstrength machine, preacherbench) curl 4 x 8
    hs press downs 4 x 8
    smith shoulder press 4 x 8
    smith shoulder shrugs 4 x 8
    wrist curls 4 x 8
    wrist curls reverse 4 x 8
    abs (bunch of different ab stuff blah blah)

    Day 2 = OFF

    Day 3

    Legs

    smith squats 4 x 8
    hack squats 4 x 8
    cybex leg curls 4 x 8
    leg press (one leg) 4 x 8
    seated calf raises 4 x 20
    standing calf raises 4 x 10


    Day 4 = OFF

    Day 5

    Chest/Back

    bb flat bench press 4 x 8
    cybex incline press 4 x 8
    db incline press 4 x 8
    fly machine 4 x 8
    lat pull down 4 x 8
    cable rows 4 x 8
    smith rows 4 x 8
    abs (bunch of different ab stuff blah blah)

    Day 6 = OFF
    Day 7 = OFF

    start over....

    Well i guess my question is, if you have read this far, is should i just go do the WBB #1 routine, is that a good routine change? Or what would you guys recommend... I really need to mix it up, cuz im really plateauing here... That is not to say i have made some good gains, which i have.

    For example: my squat went from just over 100 lbs to 185, and i weigh 153, up from 140 when i started. But its just not cutting it anymore.

    Any replies will be greatly appreciated.
    Age - 20
    Height - 6'2"
    Weight - 175 (starting weight 140)
    Squat - 275 x 8
    Deadlift - 225 x 8
    Bench - 135 x 8

  2. #2
    Banned Jezmason's Avatar
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    Decline press makes me hurt like a beotch, dips 2, both feel like they hit my chest more than anythin

  3. #3
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    Why don't you move away from split work and go fullbody 3x a week for a while. If it's change you want, then that is one option.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dedicated
    Why don't you move away from split work and go fullbody 3x a week for a while. If it's change you want, then that is one option.
    so like do all of that in one day 3 days a week?
    Age - 20
    Height - 6'2"
    Weight - 175 (starting weight 140)
    Squat - 275 x 8
    Deadlift - 225 x 8
    Bench - 135 x 8

  5. #5
    Skinny Fat John0101's Avatar
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    I think your overtaining and most of the gains you experienced are newbie gains, also are you gaining weight? 6'1 at 152 is hella skinny. Just try WBB1 and eat a ton and keep on eating. I think you will still see gains from that routine (even thou IMO its overtaining) if you eat more and gain weight. But you'll see better gains if you do WBB1 and eat a ton.
    Life isn't like Burger King, you can't always have it your way.


  6. #6
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    I agree...

    At your height and weight, and with your goal of 220, I would simplify the routine.

    You have an entire day devoted to arms and shoulders? That's not going to pack on the size you're looking for. IMO, you'd be better off sticking to a handful of the big compounds until your weight climbs considerably. Stuff like presses, squats, etc. Pour all your energy into 'em until your pushing respectable numbers.

    "so like do all of that in one day 3 days a week?"

    No way!

    How bout something like

    Mon, Wed, Fri--
    Full Squat (1 or 2x15-20)
    Presses or Benches or Dips (3x10-12)
    Rows or Chins or Pulldowns(3x10-15)
    SLDL (1 or 2x15)
    and then whatever isolation or 'little' lifts you want to throw in...

    It really is all about getting those basic movements up there in pounds.

  7. #7
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    actually i have gained about 12 lbs since i started, i was 140 when i started LOL. so it worked, but im definatel plateauing, i guess i will stick with the compounds then... bah, i dont know.

    so stick with WBB1, or go with bmanderson? feel free to opine guys.
    Age - 20
    Height - 6'2"
    Weight - 175 (starting weight 140)
    Squat - 275 x 8
    Deadlift - 225 x 8
    Bench - 135 x 8

  8. #8
    As I Am Paul Stagg's Avatar
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    Both will work. At your level of development, simple is probably better.

    In any event, the key is to work very, very hard, and focus on progression (adding weight to the bar).
    Squats work better than supplements.
    "You know, if I thought like that, I'd never put more than one plate on the bar for anything, I'd never use bands or chains, I'd never squat to parallel or below, and I'd never let out the slightest grunt when I lift. At some point in your lifting career (assuming you're planning on getting reasonably strong and big), you're going to have to accept that most people think you are some kind of freak." -Sensei
    "You're wrong, and I have a completely irrelevant pubmed abstract that may or may not say so." - Belial
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  9. #9
    En botella whey! Max-Mex's Avatar
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    I think addind too much weight too quickly will create problems (plateaus). Small increments work wonders. In 1 year my bench for reps has gone up 60 lbs (up to 70 now). That's 5 lbs/month. That may not seem like a lot but at least I haven't plateaued. I can't expect linear progress forever, but I know that my body can more easily handle the small changes than larger ones, especially over longer periods of time.
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    Deadlift: PR 1@440, Goal 1@450
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  10. #10
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    In the strength area, you are not doing well anymore because you're doing a bodybuilding routine. You have to do a strength routine first with mass gaining exercises second.

    5sets x 5reps followed by 3sets x 10-15reps

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by DontGiveUp
    In the strength area, you are not doing well anymore because you're doing a bodybuilding routine. You have to do a strength routine first with mass gaining exercises second.

    5sets x 5reps followed by 3sets x 10-15reps
    No. Anywhere from 5-12 reps have been proven to induce hypertrophy. 3x3 would be more of a strength-targeted rep scheme. The 5-7 rep range gauges how well you are growing because if you ain't gettin'stronger you ain't growin'. 5-7, 8-10, and 10-12 are all needed for hyperrophy, but not in one workout. Try doing 2 weeks of 5-7, then 2 weeks of 10-12, then 2 weeks of 8-10, then 2 weeks of 10-12 again.
    As for the routine, I personally don't like it.
    ---Too much volume per workout
    ---You are trying to hit each muscle from every angle, which is pointless. Bench pressx5 and finish up with an isolation. Squats x5 and finish up with some isolation work. Cut the exersizes down, and do more volume on the exersizes you keep. This will maximize adaptation with that one exersizes, then when you have reached a plateau you can switch it out.
    ---Personally, I have found that hitting each muscle twice per week is best for most people. Muscle recovery takes its course in about 48 hours.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by NaturalBuilder
    No. Anywhere from 5-12 reps have been proven to induce hypertrophy. 3x3 would be more of a strength-targeted rep scheme. The 5-7 rep range gauges how well you are growing because if you ain't gettin'stronger you ain't growin'. 5-7, 8-10, and 10-12 are all needed for hyperrophy, but not in one workout. Try doing 2 weeks of 5-7, then 2 weeks of 10-12, then 2 weeks of 8-10, then 2 weeks of 10-12 again.
    As for the routine, I personally don't like it.
    ---Too much volume per workout
    ---You are trying to hit each muscle from every angle, which is pointless. Bench pressx5 and finish up with an isolation. Squats x5 and finish up with some isolation work. Cut the exersizes down, and do more volume on the exersizes you keep. This will maximize adaptation with that one exersizes, then when you have reached a plateau you can switch it out.
    ---Personally, I have found that hitting each muscle twice per week is best for most people. Muscle recovery takes its course in about 48 hours.

    Actually after i do legs they are so for like 4 days... arms are basically better after 2 days, chest and back about 3... so i dont think i could hit each one 2x a week.
    Age - 20
    Height - 6'2"
    Weight - 175 (starting weight 140)
    Squat - 275 x 8
    Deadlift - 225 x 8
    Bench - 135 x 8

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by NaturalBuilder
    No. Anywhere from 5-12 reps have been proven to induce hypertrophy. 3x3 would be more of a strength-targeted rep scheme. The 5-7 rep range gauges how well you are growing because if you ain't gettin'stronger you ain't growin'. 5-7, 8-10, and 10-12 are all needed for hyperrophy, but not in one workout. Try doing 2 weeks of 5-7, then 2 weeks of 10-12, then 2 weeks of 8-10, then 2 weeks of 10-12 again.
    As for the routine, I personally don't like it.
    ---Too much volume per workout
    ---You are trying to hit each muscle from every angle, which is pointless. Bench pressx5 and finish up with an isolation. Squats x5 and finish up with some isolation work. Cut the exersizes down, and do more volume on the exersizes you keep. This will maximize adaptation with that one exersizes, then when you have reached a plateau you can switch it out.
    ---Personally, I have found that hitting each muscle twice per week is best for most people. Muscle recovery takes its course in about 48 hours.

    Don't give me this "No" business. I train many athletes and some hold records in powerlifting.

    5 sets of 5 reps is probably the best strength training program. Of course, mid way through the training you drop the reps to 3's and then singles(as the weight goes up)

    The part about not geting bigger and not getting stronger have nothing to do with each other. I get stronger and maintain my weight.

    You can do flat bench or squats all year long. It's the intensity you have to vary. Oh. And never goto failure(except about 5% of the time)

    The only part you got right was working core lifts twice a week.

    Don't critique someone's training philosophy when you're not qualified.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmanderson
    Mon, Wed, Fri--
    Full Squat (1 or 2x15-20)
    Presses or Benches or Dips (3x10-12)
    Rows or Chins or Pulldowns(3x10-15)
    SLDL (1 or 2x15)
    and then whatever isolation or 'little' lifts you want to throw in...

    It really is all about getting those basic movements up there in pounds.
    Agree with everything. After doing a high volume routine combined with a once a week target, changing to a high frequency, low volume routine would be a great way to periodize. I wouldn't go to failure with this routine though (just a little FYI).
    Last edited by NaturalBuilder; 05-07-2004 at 08:53 PM.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by DontGiveUp
    Don't give me this "No" business. I train many athletes and some hold records in powerlifting.

    5 sets of 5 reps is probably the best strength training program. Of course, mid way through the training you drop the reps to 3's and then singles(as the weight goes up)

    The part about not geting bigger and not getting stronger have nothing to do with each other. I get stronger and maintain my weight.

    You can do flat bench or squats all year long. It's the intensity you have to vary. Oh. And never goto failure(except about 5% of the time)

    The only part you got right was working core lifts twice a week.

    Don't critique someone's training philosophy when you're not qualified.

    so then what would be your suggestion for my new routine?
    Age - 20
    Height - 6'2"
    Weight - 175 (starting weight 140)
    Squat - 275 x 8
    Deadlift - 225 x 8
    Bench - 135 x 8

  16. #16
    Team Stocky Member. Killa Kurt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DontGiveUp
    Don't give me this "No" business. I train many athletes and some hold records in powerlifting.

    5 sets of 5 reps is probably the best strength training program. Of course, mid way through the training you drop the reps to 3's and then singles(as the weight goes up)

    The part about not geting bigger and not getting stronger have nothing to do with each other. I get stronger and maintain my weight.

    You can do flat bench or squats all year long. It's the intensity you have to vary. Oh. And never goto failure(except about 5% of the time)

    The only part you got right was working core lifts twice a week.

    Don't critique someone's training philosophy when you're not qualified.
    I did one muscle per day, once a week, 3 rep sets, for quite a long time, and all to failure and i didn't have any plateaus. Plus i gained some weight.

    Maybe that works best for you, and his routine works best for him.
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  17. #17
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    Mon
    squat 5x5 heavy
    Deadlift 5x5 light
    Calves 3x8 medium

    Wed
    Bench 5x5 heavy
    Bent Over Rows 5x5 heavy
    Shoulderpress 5x5 medium
    Tricep Pushdowns 3x8 medium
    Curls 5x5 heavy

    Fri
    Deadlift 5x5 heavy
    Squat 5x5 medium
    Calves 5x5 heavy

    Sat
    Shoulderpress 5x5 heavy
    Lat pulldowns 5x5 medium
    benchpress 5x5 medium
    Tricep pushdowns 5x5 heavy
    Curls 3x8 medium

    Don't go to failure. make sure the weight you start with in the beginning on the heavy day you can complete all the reps without too much problem. On the medium days, you want to drop the wight back from the heavy days 5-10%. Add 5-10lbs on the compound exercise once per week, and 2.5-5lbs on isolation exercises per week

    Anything more than that you'd have to pay for.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killa Kurt
    I did one muscle per day, once a week, 3 rep sets, for quite a long time, and all to failure and i didn't have any plateaus. Plus i gained some weight.

    Maybe that works best for you, and his routine works best for him.

    My routine works best for everyone. If I told you exactly everthing I did, I wouldn't be making any money. I can't give it away.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by DontGiveUp
    My routine works best for everyone. If I told you exactly everthing I did, I wouldn't be making any money. I can't give it away.
    Hmmm, okay you know what...you are wrong. Yes, I'm giving you this "NO" business. There is no way one routine will work for everyone. As you can see by participating in this forum, everyone has had success off of different routines. Everyone grows differently and not everyone will respond to the same routines. My body doesn't respond to hitting the muscle only once per week. I do better with high frequency, low volume routines.


    Also, "The part about not geting bigger and not getting stronger have nothing to do with each other. I get stronger and maintain my weight." Yes, with the 5x5 if you aren''t getting stronger you aren't getting bigger most of the time. The 5-7 rep range is used for both strength and induces hypertrophy at the same time. So, if you aren't getting stronger than you aren't making progress are you? If you aren't getting stronger with the 5-7 range, and aren't making progress then you obviously aren't getting bigger then now are you? Yes.

    P.S: Congrats on being the first trainer ever to find a universal routine that WILL work for EVERYONE! I think you should get the Nobel Prize.
    Last edited by NaturalBuilder; 05-08-2004 at 11:23 AM.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by DontGiveUp
    Mon
    squat 5x5 heavy
    Deadlift 5x5 light
    Calves 3x8 medium

    Wed
    Bench 5x5 heavy
    Bent Over Rows 5x5 heavy
    Shoulderpress 5x5 medium
    Tricep Pushdowns 3x8 medium
    Curls 5x5 heavy

    Fri
    Deadlift 5x5 heavy
    Squat 5x5 medium
    Calves 5x5 heavy

    Sat
    Shoulderpress 5x5 heavy
    Lat pulldowns 5x5 medium
    benchpress 5x5 medium
    Tricep pushdowns 5x5 heavy
    Curls 3x8 medium

    Don't go to failure. make sure the weight you start with in the beginning on the heavy day you can complete all the reps without too much problem. On the medium days, you want to drop the wight back from the heavy days 5-10%. Add 5-10lbs on the compound exercise once per week, and 2.5-5lbs on isolation exercises per week

    Anything more than that you'd have to pay for.

    lol thanks for taking the time to lay it all out like that.

    what does everyone else think? should i go with this, or wbb1, or what.. chest day is today!
    Age - 20
    Height - 6'2"
    Weight - 175 (starting weight 140)
    Squat - 275 x 8
    Deadlift - 225 x 8
    Bench - 135 x 8

  21. #21
    En botella whey! Max-Mex's Avatar
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    Wbb #1
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    PB's&Goals

    Deadlift: PR 1@440, Goal 1@450
    Squat: PR 1@375, Goal 1@400
    Bench: PR 2@275, Goal 1@300

  22. #22
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    it would epends on your goals.

  23. #23
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    I think im going with WBB1, thank you all for your replies, and your input! This forum has been very valuable to me for some time now.
    Age - 20
    Height - 6'2"
    Weight - 175 (starting weight 140)
    Squat - 275 x 8
    Deadlift - 225 x 8
    Bench - 135 x 8

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Max-Mex
    Wbb #1
    Yes, but you may want to add a few exersizes and sets or eliminate one of the back-to-back rest days.
    Last edited by NaturalBuilder; 05-08-2004 at 08:28 PM.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by NaturalBuilder
    Yes, but you may want to add a few exersizes and sets or eliminate one of the back-to-back rest days.
    all right, ill take that into consideration.
    Age - 20
    Height - 6'2"
    Weight - 175 (starting weight 140)
    Squat - 275 x 8
    Deadlift - 225 x 8
    Bench - 135 x 8

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