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Thread: Trick Question: How is it possible that

  1. #1
    Banned Reinier's Avatar
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    Trick Question: How is it possible that

    How is it possible that in Holland, the unemployment rate is high and rising, but our government wants to increase the age of retirement to help the economy?

    Is this not a contradiction?

    Keep in mind that unlike many other countries, Holland has a system where people have to give part of their earnings to the state, the state looks after this money and invests it, and then when that person retires he lives off the state. This money is a very big part of our state capital.
    Last edited by Reinier; 05-22-2004 at 01:46 PM.

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    Selfproclaimed Fancy Pants wibble's Avatar
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    Wouldn't that mean that the people who are working though will be forced to work longer, giving more money to the state to make more investments? Maybe some of the workers will die before they can retire if the age is raised enough and then the state doesn't have to pay for their living expenses, so it gets the extra money from them plus the money from the investments w/o paying any out. I'm not saying this is the case for everyone of course. Sounds like a shortterm "fix" if you ask me. The government should be worried about creating more jobs than forcing people to work longer.

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    Banned Reinier's Avatar
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    The issue currently being dealt with is dialogue between government and trade unionists to decide whether or not the minimum age for retirement is to be raised from 62 to 64 years old or so.

    IMO The Leader of the trade unions has been treated disrespectfully, but I know I am biased.

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    MulletII - AKA Ninja Boner Gyno Rhino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reinier
    Keep in mind that unlike many other countries, Holland has a system where people have to give part of their earnings to the state, the state looks after this money and invests it, and then when that person retires he lives off the state. This money is a very big part of our state capital.
    We have this, too. It doesn't work.

    Holland may find that out quite soon.
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    Fighting for Definition Giddo's Avatar
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    We have the same issue here in the UK, we pay our national insurance for health services and pensions, yet are advised to have a private or company pension as it is unlikely there will be a state pension when we retire at 65.
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    I want some crack! TBone4Eva's Avatar
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    We have it to a degree. Social Security doesn't invest the money. It is simply held in a trust with a promise that certain benefits will be paid out when you retire.

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    Ash "Money" Hegde Y2A's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reinier
    How is it possible that in Holland, the unemployment rate is high and rising, but our government wants to increase the age of retirement to help the economy?

    Is this not a contradiction?
    I agree that makes no sense. When the people are old and retire, it should open new jobs up. By keeping them there longer, it wont help unemployment at all...
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    Banned Reinier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gyno Rhino
    We have this, too. It doesn't work.

    Holland may find that out quite soon.
    The fact it doesn't work is the whole point.
    This is how you move money from workers to executives.

  9. #9
    It's a Republic dammit! reloaded's Avatar
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    Ok here's the deal. As people retire, especially a babyboomer generation, their retirements allow the tax base to stagger and be reduced because they don't work anymore and draw funds from the government entitlements. Therefore, without as large a tax base as before, countries cannot afford the same level of services, etc. to give their citizens like before a babyboom generation retired. By raising the retirement age, this prevents the older generation from retiring, thus keeping the tax base reasonably level so that you won't have to cut services or spending. That's how it goes with raising the retirement age.

    Now, going back to the unemployment issue, there are two faces here. Number one, if they don't raise the retirement age, the tax base may take a hit, at least in the short-term. There is more turnover and people can look for work, as older peeps retire. And if there are more people working, the tax revenue rises. However, if people retire in a babyboom, somewhere down the line the government will run massive deficits to keep up with entitlement spending if they keep current levels of services. On the other hand, if retirement age is raised, this keeps the tax base relatively level. However, people won't be able to retire like they want to and may raise unemployment levels for everyone else. The government could also run more deficits because unemployment will be up and people could draw whatever welfare type services you have in Holland until they aquire a job.
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    Banned Reinier's Avatar
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    In Holland if you lose your job you get 70% of what you earned for 2 years, provided you are actively trying to get a new job. I don't know if this is still accurate these things are dropping quick. However now a good part of the unemployed folk is fresh out of school and never had a job. They probably get something. I'm not sure what.

    Reloaded one problem... you can't keep the babyboomers working forever. You're only shifting the problem. At the cost of both the young unemployed and the older who want that retirement money they have a right to.
    Last edited by Reinier; 05-22-2004 at 05:59 PM.

  11. #11
    It's a Republic dammit! reloaded's Avatar
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    Reloaded one problem... you can't keep the babyboomers working forever. You're only shifting the problem. At the cost of both the young unemployed and the older who want that retirement money they have a right to.
    Yes of course. I'm just explaining some of the issues that would have to be overcome eventually somehow.
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    I want some crack! TBone4Eva's Avatar
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    That's all governments really do though is shift a problem around as long as possible until they have no choice but to confront it.

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    II MrWebb78's Avatar
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    my answer....

    It's Holland! Who cares?
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    Bmx Bandit McBain's Avatar
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    how bout this reinier.....you do me a presentation on the reasons for the dutch revolt for tuesday??
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    Banned Reinier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrWebb78
    my answer....

    It's Holland! Who cares?
    then don't post!

    Besides this isn't just about holland, it's about politics and economics in general, this could happen and could work the same elsewhere.

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    Banned Reinier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McBain
    how bout this reinier.....you do me a presentation on the reasons for the dutch revolt for tuesday??
    No time now. I have exams this week. I'm crazy for even being here right now.

  17. #17
    Banned Reinier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TBone4Eva
    That's all governments really do though is shift a problem around as long as possible until they have no choice but to confront it.
    Either to shift it to the next administration, or in hope of some good luck soon that will end the problem in a cheaper way.

  18. #18
    II MrWebb78's Avatar
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    im just bein an a$$. lighten up.
    A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. - Edward Abbey

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