me and a friend have just had a silly bet on who can bench the most by the end of september. At the moment my bench is weak and have just read about rest-pause training. Is it good for improving strength and size or just one or the other?
never heard of it. what does it entail?
"You can take control of my mind and my body, but there is one thing a Saiyan always keeps.... his PRIDE!"- Vegeta
i think it is more of a size thing that strength since it focues on going to failure alot.
your best bet would be to do some stuff like westside barbell or metal militia style...
Why live if one can not Deadlift?- John Paul Sigmasson
Accept that which is useful and reject what is not- Bruce Lee
Reason and Logic trump religion- Me
Restriction of education, Censorship of knowledge, and Proliferation of religion helps keep the masses tamed- Me
"Money does not fix everything, Smart fixes everything"
Rest-Pausing is a pretty solid training tool for bodybuilders who want to be big and strong. It's probably actually one of the best ways to get big.
As far as strength goes, though, there are better routines -- especially if you are focusing on just a couple of lifts (ie bench, squat and deadlift).
If your goal is just to bench a lot by the end of September then I think that you should first focus on a routine that has a lot of benching. Either WSB or Metal Militia would be pretty good, the only thing is that they focus so much on developing your triceps and not your chest, and so to an extent it's a long-term routine ... I also doubt you'll be able to handle all the added volume of Metal Militia's tricep work unless you're on steroids, but you can still follow most of the routine. I suggest you stick to many movements in the plane of the bench press: board presses, tricep lockouts, wide grip, close grip, possibly decline, etc.
You might also want to take a 2 week "cruise" period and go to a light each muscle once-a-week routine for those two weeks and then switch to Kyle's Russian Bench Routine (it's on fortifiediron.com).
Rest-Pausing is something that Doggcrapp has been pushing and uses it in his training. He's probably the most known person to preach it, though according to Fortified Iron/Chris Mason he's definitely not the first. At any rate, it generally involves lifting a weight as many times as you can, failing, and then holding the weight for 20-40 seconds and then lifting it again for a couple more reps -- until you fail -- and then going again. It's basically super-failure training. In DoggCrapp Training, you usually finish this with two more very slow negatives and then an isometric hold at your sticky point.
Last edited by KingJustin; 06-18-2004 at 08:40 AM.
How long have you been lifting? I lift WSB style its great but i think you can make some good gains if your pretty new, Using HIT, or some other routiens.
Why would HIT be ideal for a beginner? The horrible frequency, terribly low volume, etc would probably make it one of the worst routines for one, imo. I still am not sore for a single day after taking just one set to a hard failure and I would consider myself an intermediate at 220 lbs and a pretty low bf%.
For beginners I feel that high frequency focusing on compounds is important, but at least 2-3 sets is as well. I would support training to failure, but not for just one set.
I've been doing DC training, and it has done wonders for my strength. I've been disappointed with mass gains, though.
D 435 / S 340 / B 305
"I avoid talking to normal people about this stuff as much as possible. It's usually a waste of time." - HahnB
"OMG HE EETS 2 MUCH0RZ!!111 O NOES HE EETS TEH FATS!!!111" - PowerManDL
"Test does a body good." - Severed Ties
I read that with rest pause u lift a weight that u can only do one rep with, take a 20 second break, lift it again, break, and repeat till u reach about 10 reps.
I really doubt most people would get the second rep, especially intermediate and advanced trainees.Originally Posted by Jezmason
That gives an overview of DoggCrapp's training methods, which is where I first heard of Rest-Pausing. Chris mentioned that Doggcrapp (Dante) was influenced by (Arthur?) Jones and Darden.
Beast, I'm really surprised to see that your size gains were bad with good strength gains. I feel lame saying this to you because you're not a newbie, but have you been following his diet outlines, extreme stretching, etc? I've talked to (online) about 5 people that I felt like I knew fairly well, and all 5 were very pleased with his training methods.
Mike Mentzer was actually one of the first people to get rest-pause widely known. It's been around since the 70's. According to him it's a little more useful for powerlifters, since it focuses on strength.
I'm basing all my information on what Chris said on a different board, but he claimed that Mentzer was influenced by Jones and Darden.
I don't see why it would not be ideal for size, though. You are getting an excellent overload and if you are continually getting stronger with that load then I don't see why you wouldn't be gaining strength.
Read Mentzer's own writings, he will tell you that Jones was the man who turned him on to his HIT style training. Well, let me clarify that, actually he met Casey Viator. Casey was Jones' protege at the time and a sensation as he became the youngest Mr. America ever at 19 years of age. Casey is supposedly the one who told Mentzer about low volume training to failure.
Rest-pause in the manner which Mentzer recommended was a series of singles with a brief rest between singles. What he would do is select a weight with which he could perform one rep. He would do the rep and rack the weight. He would then rest for 10-20 seconds and perform another rep. He would continue this until he got 6-8 reps (he might rest a bit longer as the reps increased). He would perform 1-2 "sets" in this manner.
This form of rest-pause is VERY intense and is counter-productive for the natural trainee if performed every session. It will definitely build strength as you are training VERY heavy.
Jez, if you want to try this form of training I suggest that you alternate it with a "light" workout in which you stop well short of failure using standard sets. I also suggest you only perform 1 rest-pause "set" of 6 reps. Make sure you have a spotter as you will need them.
Another way to increase your bench is to incorporate weighted dips. After you have benched perform 2 sets of weighted dips for 8-10 reps.
So, try the following to increase your bench:
3 warmup sets
1 rest pause set x 6 reps
2 sets of 8-10 reps stopping just short of failure (1 rep or so)
2 sets x 5 reps stopping well short of failure. Pick a weight you could get 8-9 reps with if you pushed yourself
2 sets of 8-10 reps with 10% less weight than you use on your "heavy" day
If you alternate these 2 workouts with 3-4 days rest between 1 and 2 and 2-3 days rest between 2 and 1, you should see a very nice increase in your bench press in short order.
You should progress on the rest-pause whenever you can get the 6 reps without taking more than 10 seconds rest between reps. Try to progress by 5 lbs every session #1 on the dips. If you cannot that is ok, still stop 1-2 reps short of failure and use the same resistance until you can get the target rep count with 1-2 to spare.
True, Mentzer was influenced by Jones, but the point I was attempting to make is that rest-pause training (and a number of variations based on it) have been around for several decades now.Originally Posted by Bizatch
As for size, strength is not necessarily correlated with size. I believe that it is the other way around (increased size=increased strength) but increased strength does not always equal increased size. Think neural adaption for one reason. I'm too tired to get into a longer involved discussion, but I am sure (if you ask nicely ) Mr. Mason or Mr. Powerman when they are not too busy, may be inclined to explain this.
Basically for bodybuilders whom for increased size is a priority, they would want to do multiple reps and sets to develop the muscle to its greatest extent. Rest-pause is based on (because of the intensity of training) low reps and sets. This is a very simplifed explaination, but the best I can come up with at one in the morning.
Good night all!
Last edited by Songsangnim; 06-20-2004 at 12:04 PM.
I think that we are talking about two different rest-pauses, then. The one Chris described is not close to the same as the one I had described. The extreme failure in the one I was thinking of is why I feel like rest-pausing would be effective if you are able to progress with it. I don't think there is too much argument in that if you are training to failure or beyond and still progressing each workout then, so long as your diet is in line, you will be growing.
Also, Chris, I think that the extent to which DC had packaged it all together along with the fact that his rest-pause method is significantly different from Mentzer's does make his method quite innovative, if not "revolutionary." I can understand why he was offended (though overly) when he was told otherwise.
Well, it is like everything, someone has already done it. Think about breathing squats, they are the same idea as DC's version of rest-pause.
I think his routine is a freshly packaged version of what he encountered in the formative years of his bodybuilding career.
I can't remember who it was, but someone said that if he can see far it is because he stands on the shoulders of giants.
Newton I believe. We had inspirational quotes posted above all the water fountains at my high school, that being one of them: http://www.cyber.com.au/users/conz/shoulders.html
But yeah I suppose you're right about it.
At any rate, I tried part of his theory on an exercise that wouldn't get in the way of my bench or leg training ... My biceps recover so quickly that I've been using his methods on them twice a week with an addition two sets: one before and one after his usual work set. After a month I have been able to progress in weight on them much more than I would have expected to and I'd say the size gains are actually pretty noticeable. I'm really surprised that Beast hasn't had the same results.
Last edited by KingJustin; 06-20-2004 at 10:24 PM.
Exactly. I couldn't have said it better myself. BTW the quote is from Issac Asimov (a favorite writer of mine, when I was younger)Originally Posted by chris mason