The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
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    casein... recommendations plz

    i want to take casein with protein at night. to my understanding it slows down protein absorbtion and is best used before going to sleep. so thats what im planning to do. please correct me if im wrong.

    i would like to buy casein but i never bought it before. i would appreciate if you guys would recommend me a brand youve been taking for a long time and believe to be the best to your knowledge.

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  3. #2
    Senior Member TheGimp's Avatar
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    I buy Reflex brand micellar casein which is 80% casein 20% whey, the ratios of the protein found in milk. I have not tried any other brands because I am happy with it.

    You could just buy cottage cheese.

  4. #3
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    yep, cottage cheese.
    The Gods taught us to forge Iron so that we would not be slaves-----old Germanic saying

    buy a chin up bar, sell the arm curl bar---Roddy

  5. #4
    Grasshoppa
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    Quote Originally Posted by T_Chapman
    i want to take casein with protein at night. to my understanding it slows down protein absorbtion and is best used before going to sleep. so thats what im planning to do. please correct me if im wrong.

    i would like to buy casein but i never bought it before. i would appreciate if you guys would recommend me a brand youve been taking for a long time and believe to be the best to your knowledge.
    Casein is protein.
    Shao-LiN
    "I tried so hard and got so far, but in the end, it doesn't even matter." - Linkin Park

  6. #5
    Senior Member hemants's Avatar
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    Skim milk
    If the only thing you are holding is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

  7. #6
    little man pruneman's Avatar
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    cheese has a lot of casein protein. I have a bowl of ff cottage cheese every night before bed.
    The world acording to prune

    If you can't be a good example, at least be a terrible warning.

  8. #7
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    sorry but cottage cheese makes me want to throw up and skim milk has too much carbs to drink before sleeping.

  9. #8
    Grasshoppa
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    Don't fall into the 'carbs before bed make you fat' trap. Plus, 1 cup of milk before bed won't kill you.
    Shao-LiN
    "I tried so hard and got so far, but in the end, it doesn't even matter." - Linkin Park

  10. #9
    Senior Member PiKappaWRX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGimp
    I buy Reflex brand micellar casein which is 80% casein 20% whey, the ratios of the protein found in milk. I have not tried any other brands because I am happy with it.

    You could just buy cottage cheese.
    just go with what thegimp said. btw, gimp, where do u get your reflex from?

  11. #10
    Senior Member TheGimp's Avatar
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    Here in the UK I order from www.monstersupplements.com. If I lived in North America I'd just get Nitrean.

  12. #11
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    My recommendation is to go with Milk Protein Isolate from black star labs for a nighttime protein. same ratio casein as regular milk of course but with essentially no carbs. Cheaper than buying powdered milk per gram protein obtained.

    Personally, I just took one of Lyle's suggestions and ran with it. I got the 50 lb back of whey protein concentrate 80 and added moderate to large amounts of psyllium fiber to it to considerably slow the digestion. Now that is cheap!

  13. #12
    Senior Member PiKappaWRX's Avatar
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    i just use nitrean

  14. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by PiKappaWRX
    i just use nitrean
    i never heard of nitrean. is it good?

  15. #14
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    im looking at bulk nutrition.com and they have micellar matrix and vpx micelean. are those good??? i need casein now. i work too hard to get muscles and i cant afford to lose too much. they said that they studied the effects of micellar matrix and found that people who used it had like 35% more muscle than people who didnt. that is so overwhelming. 35% is so much.

  16. #15
    Wine,Wenches and Wheels warreport's Avatar
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    what if i told you i studied the effects of counting sheep before bed increased my lean mass by 90%. I dont know the idenctical study, but im sure its a loaded scenario, ie trained vs untrained. Muscletech also makes outlandish claims, but you dont see many people on this board clamorign for celltech. I think you are overdoing teh catabolic effects of sleep, you will get some benefit from using casein but your not gona go to sleep l220 and wake up 190

  17. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by warreport
    what if i told you i studied the effects of counting sheep before bed increased my lean mass by 90%. I dont know the idenctical study, but im sure its a loaded scenario, ie trained vs untrained. Muscletech also makes outlandish claims, but you dont see many people on this board clamorign for celltech. I think you are overdoing teh catabolic effects of sleep, you will get some benefit from using casein but your not gona go to sleep l220 and wake up 190
    you grow most when youre sleeping. so instead of your body growing 100% to its full potential you only grown 70%. casein helps you fulfill that goal of getting 100% benefit. so you probably wont drop that many pounds in one day. but you wont grow as much. i also talked to a few people and told me they didnt start growing until they started using casein.

  18. #17
    Grasshoppa
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    rofl
    Shao-LiN
    "I tried so hard and got so far, but in the end, it doesn't even matter." - Linkin Park

  19. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal
    Personally, I just took one of Lyle's suggestions and ran with it. I got the 50 lb back of whey protein concentrate 80 and added moderate to large amounts of psyllium fiber to it to considerably slow the digestion. Now that is cheap!
    Did he post that over on his forums? do you have a link to the thread please? Sounds interesting and sensible.

    Right now i eat 20g of whey and a half cup of cottage cheese for caesin before bed. Though gos alone knows why.

    If I created a "protein drip" and marketed it id be a millionaire in the current "must never have blood protein drop" climate. Another 6 months and you will see articles telling you whatever you do, dont eat protein before bed becasue it inhibits the hepatic portal system and your bowels explode. blah blah. Work hard in the gym. People in the 1960's still grew just fine on 8 hours of catabolic sleep.

    Augs

  20. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Augury
    Did he post that over on his forums? do you have a link to the thread please? Sounds interesting and sensible.

    Right now i eat 20g of whey and a half cup of cottage cheese for caesin before bed. Though gos alone knows why.

    If I created a "protein drip" and marketed it id be a millionaire in the current "must never have blood protein drop" climate. Another 6 months and you will see articles telling you whatever you do, dont eat protein before bed becasue it inhibits the hepatic portal system and your bowels explode. blah blah. Work hard in the gym. People in the 1960's still grew just fine on 8 hours of catabolic sleep.

    Augs
    lol in the 60s people were not as big as they were now. only the bodybuilders were big and that was because they probably took casein at night. other people didnt do all that so they are not as muscular as people who are considered muscular nowadays. also dont forget to see the first person to ever win the olympia. if he competed in amateur bodybuilding with that body today he would be laughed at lol

  21. #20
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    Grrr. I meant to say "bodybuilders/strongmen" in the 60's. I appreciate they arent as huge as people are today with gear...but the basic tenet of eat lean meat, train hard in the gym, sleep, eat more calories than you use will make you grow. Worring about catabolism at night is like worrying about how many wheel nuts your porsche has. You have a goddamn porsche. drive it. Fiddling around with all the supliments and suppliment timing will maybee create 5-10% more growth than not fiddling with sups. 90% of your growth is down to growth stimulation and a good diet. Obviously gear is a different matter.

  22. #21
    Senior Member TheGimp's Avatar
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    Agreed. I believe you are blowing this out of proportion T_Chapman. It will help some but it is laughable to say that the reason the bodybuilders in the 60s were big was because they had casein before bed.

    Animal flesh is also slow digesting, slower than casein.
    Last edited by TheGimp; 06-17-2004 at 07:10 AM.

  23. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGimp
    Animal flesh is also slow digesting, slower than casein.
    All the more reason to eat your g/f before bed

  24. #23
    Wannabebig Member snorre's Avatar
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    I gained 100lbs without drinking casein before bed nor the day.. only eat cottage cheese at day time sometimes... I stay with whey!
    Deadlift: 460+, Squat (deep!): 414lbs, Bench: 276lbs
    1 1/2 year trained.. 190-200lbs, 14%

  25. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGimp
    Agreed. I believe you are blowing this out of proportion T_Chapman. It will help some but it is laughable to say that the reason the bodybuilders in the 60s were big was because they had casein before bed.

    Animal flesh is also slow digesting, slower than casein.
    argh i never said it was because of casein. i said bodybuilders took all the supplements available during that time including casein. sorry for not being clearer.

    but im still very new to bodybuilding and you guys have been doing this for a long time so who am i to say anything. its just that a couple people told me they really started gaining when they started using casein.

  26. #25
    Senior Member TheGimp's Avatar
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    It's not the wonder supplement they have made it out to be. I am sure very few people here actually use casein before bed. Quite a few I am sure will have cottage cheese or mix their protein with milk and having a slow digesting pre bed meal is beneficial. If for example you had some eggs (including the yolk for fat - which also slows digestion) rather than a casein shake would it make much difference? Hard to say but I doubt it. I could not find any studies on catabolism during sleep but there are plenty of people here like snorre who do not take casein and are still successful.

    And of course like any supplement, it cannot make up for poor diet or training.

    Nitrean is a protein blend containing egg, whey and casein protein, although I am unsure of the ratios. It's got great reviews and you'll be supporting the site by buying it. Check out the AtLarge forum for more info.

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