The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
    . Delphi's Avatar
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    Ramblings on DOMS

    I understand that lots of people feel DOMS is not a good indicator of adequacy of a workout. Here's some other questions I have. Love to see everybbody's opinions on them.

    1) If DOMS results from a workout does it mean more muscle damage occurred than if no DOMS resulted? Possibly too much damage?

    2) If DOMS results does it mean I will need more recovery time than if I didn't get DOMS?

    3) If I have still have some DOMS in my biceps and lats three days after my pull routine should I delay doing my push routine until after the DOMS is gone?

    4) I've heard some people say they wait to work out until after the DOMS is gone. Others have said they wait until they haven't had DOMS for at least 24 hours. Does it matter?

    5) I did two good sets of a seated version of abdominal crunches yesterday. I hook the lat pulldown bar under my upper arms and crunch down as far as I can. Today my upper abs are sore where they insert onto the lower ribcage. The lower abs have no pain. Does this mean that my upper abs got more of a workout than the lower portion? (Back to the upper vs lower ab debate)

    6) I tend to get more DOMS if the days off between routines is 7-10, and might not get it at all if my break was only 5 or 6 days. Any significance to this?
    Last edited by Delphi; 10-28-2001 at 01:36 PM.

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  3. #2
    . Delphi's Avatar
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    BTW, DOMS is Delayed- Onset Muscle Soreness.

    25 views, no replies? *Bump*

  4. #3
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    Re: Ramblings on DOMS

    This is a lot of work.


    Originally posted by DelphiDoc
    I understand that lots of people feel DOMS is not a good indicator of adequacy of a workout. Here's some other questions I have. Love to see everybbody's opinions on them.

    1) If DOMS results from a workout does it mean more muscle damage occurred than if no DOMS resulted? Possibly too much damage?

    ****************Not necessarily. I think the term may be somewhat of a misnomer, I am not sure it is actually the muscle fibers that are the generators of the pain.


    2) If DOMS results does it mean I will need more recovery time than if I didn't get DOMS?

    ****************Yes here in my opinion. If I train in an extremely strict style (read less force involved in the movements), I get less DOMS. I also require less recovery time. The DOMS is due to damage of tissue, I (and scientists to my knowledge) am just not sure exactly which tissue.

    3) If I have still have some DOMS in my biceps and lats three days after my pull routine should I delay doing my push routine until after the DOMS is gone?

    ****************I would say no here. You should delay another pull workout, but a push routine should be ok. The push routine, and the subsequent increase of blood flow, may actually help the recovery process of your pulling muscles (assuming your body is not too fried from the pull routine). If you feel ready to go with the push routine, you should go.

    4) I've heard some people say they wait to work out until after the DOMS is gone. Others have said they wait until they haven't had DOMS for at least 24 hours. Does it matter?

    ****************My personal experience indicates that it does. I can be free of DOMS, yet still not realize an increase in strength during my next workout if I do not allow for sufficient recovery.

    5) I did two good sets of a seated version of abdominal crunches yesterday. I hook the lat pulldown bar under my upper arms and crunch down as far as I can. Today my upper abs are sore where they insert onto the lower ribcage. The lower abs have no pain. Does this mean that my upper abs got more of a workout than the lower portion? (Back to the upper vs lower ab debate)

    ****************Not necessarily, but it could. I really cannot answer this definitively.

    6) I tend to get more DOMS if the days off between routines is 7-10, and might not get it at all if my break was only 5 or 6 days. Any significance to this?
    ****************Well, it has been shown that DOMS normally decreases with the repetition of a lifting routine. So, the untrained muscles can be compared to overly recovered muscles. What I mean by "overly" recovered muscles, is muscles which have recovered from your previous workout to the fullest extent possible, and then were not trained imediately, but were allowed more rest. The real question is whether or not you had a better workout after this prolonged rest period, or with the more abbreviated one. Which is it? I think that DOMS is a reaction by the body much like swelling after an injury, i.e. it has a protective function. So, a less interrupted routine (one with less rest) may become more of a "normal" state for the body, and therefore the protective reaction of DOMS becomes less important, thus it decreases. More rest creates the opposite reaction.

  5. #4
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    There, I hope you are happy!

  6. #5
    Mystic Eric
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    great posts guys. it was perfect timing for me 'cause i haven't done legs in like 2 weeks, and i did them on friday, and yesterday and today, i can't walk. today it my back/shoulders and tri's. so chris, you think it's ok that i went along with my workout today even though i can't walk?

  7. #6
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    A few weeks ago I started spreading out my workouts so that I'm working each muscle group only once every 2 weeks. (I was inspired to try this after reading Chris Mason's journal posts.) So far, I've been able to go up in either weight or reps each workout (after a long period of stagnation) but the downside is pronounced DOMS after each workout. Is this just something I'll have to deal with as a consequence of longer periods between workouts?

  8. #7
    . Delphi's Avatar
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    Thanks Chris and everybody. So I'm not crazy thinking that I get more DOMS the farther apart my workouts are. I like that idea about "overly rested" muscles. I had an extra 5 days off last week due to the flu. I came back and both routines were great in terms of progressing in reps. For example my squats were 8 reps before the layoff and 15 reps of the same weight afterwards. I had new bests in almost every exercise I did. Today I'm having more muscle discomfort than I can remember having since I started working out this year. It's almost like I did exercises for the first time ever. I did the usual warmups and stretches, too. If this is typical of longer layoffs I may start going to 5 days off instead of 6. With my schedule at work it's very easy to have an extra day or two delay in working out due to late hours. I'd just as soon not have 10-12 days off again.

    If muscle swelling has anything to do with DOMS I wonder if creatine would make DOMS better or worse. Any experience out there with this?

  9. #8
    As I Am Paul Stagg's Avatar
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    1) If DOMS results from a workout does it mean more muscle damage occurred than if no DOMS resulted? Possibly too much damage?

    ** Not necessarily.

    2) If DOMS results does it mean I will need more recovery time than if I didn't get DOMS?

    ** Not necessarily.

    3) If I have still have some DOMS in my biceps and lats three days after my pull routine should I delay doing my push routine until after the DOMS is gone?

    ** I wouldn't.

    4) I've heard some people say they wait to work out until after the DOMS is gone. Others have said they wait until they haven't had DOMS for at least 24 hours. Does it matter?

    ** dunno.

    5) I did two good sets of a seated version of abdominal crunches yesterday. I hook the lat pulldown bar under my upper arms and crunch down as far as I can. Today my upper abs are sore where they insert onto the lower ribcage. The lower abs have no pain. Does this mean that my upper abs got more of a workout than the lower portion? (Back to the upper vs lower ab debate)

    ** I don't think so.

    6) I tend to get more DOMS if the days off between routines is 7-10, and might not get it at all if my break was only 5 or 6 days. Any significance to this?

    ** Could be.

    ** Interesting thoughts, Chris, on DOMS being, in part, a protective reaction. Pain is a signal to the brain that doing whatever caused the pain is a bad idea. Could be that soreness is a signal that you shouldn't do what you were doing until the pain goes away.
    Squats work better than supplements.
    "You know, if I thought like that, I'd never put more than one plate on the bar for anything, I'd never use bands or chains, I'd never squat to parallel or below, and I'd never let out the slightest grunt when I lift. At some point in your lifting career (assuming you're planning on getting reasonably strong and big), you're going to have to accept that most people think you are some kind of freak." -Sensei
    "You're wrong, and I have a completely irrelevant pubmed abstract that may or may not say so." - Belial
    I has a blog.
    I has a facebook.

  10. #9
    Proud Father Maki Riddington's Avatar
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    Could you explain all those two worded answers Paul?

    Hope that satisfied you CD.
    Last edited by Maki Riddington; 10-30-2001 at 05:08 PM.
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    "Soli Deo Gloria"
    "Test all things; hold fast what is good.": 1 Thessalonians 5:21

    "I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do--this I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
    So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God's law; but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God--through Jesus Christ our Lord!"
    Romans 7:14-25

    "Judo is not about strength. Yet in the learning curve, all Judokas get strong. Only with time do you learn where to apply that strength."
    The Art of Judo

  11. #10
    Geordie The_Chicken_Daddy's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Maki Riddington
    Could explain why Paul for all those two worded answers?
    Is english your second language?
    "Geordie/'d3c:di/n. & adj. Brit colloq. n. 1 a native of Tyneside. 2 the dialect spoken on Tyneside. adj. of or relating to Tyneside, its people, or its dialect. [the name George + -IE]

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