right now, considering the amount of time i have available to lift, im lifting each muscle once a week, is this too much time between each muscle?
this is my lifting schedule right now, is there anything i should double up on, as in do two times a week?
id really like to get my calves and bench going as they are lacking extremely
note: the days arent consistent because of my working schedule, neither is the order really, i try to stick to it but its not possible sometimes, however the lifts always stay how they are
Last edited by greathuskie; 08-04-2004 at 05:22 PM.
I work Chest twice a week. One day I do heavy weights, the other I do light weight high reps. I also do Biceps and Triceps twice. I have a day, Wednesday, scheduled for nothing but arms, but I have others days with Biceps thrown in and Triceps thrown in. I work shoulders twice a week also. I do back, legs, and abs once a week.
I work out M-F and rest on the weekend. Doing 45-60 minutes of cardio also every day I work out before the lifts. I begin at 5:15 am, and I am usually done by 7:15-7:30
i say once a week
i do chest/tris on mon and abs
biceps/back on wed
legs on thurs and abs
shoulders on fri
other then abs, the only thing i do mroe then once a week triceps, since the get a little workout on shoulder day, but other then that i only do every muscle part once per week and it works just fine and dandy
for me anyway
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According to common bodybuilding mythology once week is optimal, according to science higher frequency should provide better results, at least provided overall volume stays the same.
Personally I do everything three times a week, HST style.
Directly once a week, indirectly at least twice. Low volume heavy weights.
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This is what I do also. It seems to be working quite well.Originally Posted by pusher
According to the fact that we organize our lives by weeks, and generally have fixed weekly schedules, once a week is easy for Joe Schmoe to remember and/or fit in. It has little to do with physiology or optimal gains, and everything to do with keeping a regular schedule.Originally Posted by restless
Just do a lot of compound exercises, and you'll hit all of your muscles a few times a week, while keeping a regular schedule.
Originally Posted by restless
Science has nothing to do with it. It is what is optimal for the individual. For myself I have tried training programs from 1-5 days a week (the more days the less exercises). Once a week has proven to be the best (for me).
Last edited by Songsangnim; 08-06-2004 at 01:20 AM.
Of course not.Originally Posted by ExtremeAnabolic
Originally Posted by restless
It's not science (rocket or any other kind). Eat, sleep and train. Do all these in the correct amounts and you will grow. What is the correct amount though? That varies from person to person. So again, what works is what is optimal for the person, be it three times a week or one time a week.
Would you like to actually try and refute my points? No? That's what I thought.
Originally Posted by ExtremeAnabolic
I could, if you actually made any other than that awfully vague "everyone is different" one, which seems to be so much in vogue.
But I don't mind getting into an argument with you, if you agree to speak the same language as I do.
*** This is what I do and agree with.According to science higher frequency should provide better results, at least provided overall volume stays the same.
Personally I do everything three times a week.
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I train each muscle 3 times a week, i do 3 fullbody workouts a week.
WEDS Back/BI'S (back includes traps)
FRI Legs/shoulders (legs include calves some people don't consider calves part of legs don't ask me why)
I do pretty much what pusher does directly once a week indirectly twice.
Train abs on all three day and i train heavy and hard every week i only train each bodypart once a week that way there is 7 days of rest inbetween. I do cardio after everywork out for 30 to 40 min.
Last edited by sublime99; 08-05-2004 at 04:37 PM.
Do what make you grow stronger at the fastest rate. I train each muscles/exercises from 1 to 7 times per week. When I'm full of energy 7x, then I overreach and decrease frequency when I recover I increase frequency again and so on. I found it's better than a fixed frequency.
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my workout program consists of doubling up so this is how mine goesOriginally Posted by greathuskie
monday chest, back, biceps,abs(heavy day)
wednesday.legs (heavy day) abs
thursday repeat monday not heavy lighter weights more reps
friday legs shoulders abs for legs though since not much of a gap from wednesday i just do lunges, extensions, curls, and run for 25 mins
wknd off rest ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh relax!
surely each individual muscle shud be trained after it has recovered from the immediately previous workout,so as i am led to beleive by posts and articles here bigger muscles take longer to recover then the likes of legs will be trained less than shoulders and traps in say a given 7 day period
these tests above are only one off experiments . a bodybuilder works out most days and so any negative implications may well be cumulative
The frequency at which you train each muscle has nothing to do with recovery or neural fatigue? First time I've heard this. Care to expand?
I don't think he was saying that. I think what he was suggesting is that, within reason, muscle can be more or less continually loaded without adversely affecting its ability to hypertrophy.
Proof for this can be found in stretch overload studies, if you believe inferences made from animal models apply to humans.
Oh you mean (what I call) the HST studies? The studies that were done with the goal of proving HST is superior?
No such studies exist.
I was talking about studies that were done by an independent research group and published in a peer-review journal.
Every single study posted on Bryan's articles are from peer reviewed sources.
If you have links to such studies please post them. Don't just claim something along the lines of 'they are out there somewhere' Not a terribly convincing argument I am afraid. Again with the "more data" please show us where this "data" is and what peer-reviewed journals it has been posted in.
The studies are all fully referenced at the HST site. It'd take you approximately 5 minutes to gather a number of them that support Bryan's assertions.
As for my empirical observations and conclusions well yes they are probably more accurate regarding myself and how I should train. Who is likely to be more correct? Some study saying how I should train (when I followed such recommendations and made little gains) Or should I trust my experience and judgment and follow the training methods that actually produced significant gains? As a side note how many people do you know (on here) that follow strict "scientific" recommendations to as how they should train? HST is NOT the only valid training method.
There's a variety of issues here.
Firstly, the reliability of a sample of n=1 is going to be small. What I mean by this is that it is hard for a given individual to discern cause from correlate amongst the very large number of variables that pertain to one's training. From how much you're lifting, how often, with what volume, your diet, etc. The problem with anecdote is that it is uncontrolled, so, while it is certainly valuable, 'science' aims to remove some of the shortcomings of relying on mere anecdote in determining how **** happens.
Secondly, your own personal experience is hard to evaluate. While research does imply partitioning up weekly volume into more frequent sessions is a good thing, it's hard to abstractly judge whether it's better to do so without looking at exactly what you did. For example, training frequently requires one to pay a LOT of attention to overtraining, and avoiding central fatigue and even injury. Training to failure three times a week is more likely to lead to 'overtraining' of the CNS than training to failure once a week. If you trained with 'full intensity' in both scenarios, it's possible once a week WILL be better because the once a week will then provide something that the thrice a week will not: progressive tension overload over time. Meaning you lift heavier stuff over time.
As for the "science has nothing to do with it" that was not the sum total of my argument in that post. Your response "Of course not" was. I made a valid point in that post about what is optimal for the individual. You choose not to respond to that. But hey it's all good. I just like debates to which the replies are a wee bit more elaborate
What you seem dangerously close to advocating here is what's known as the 'myth of biochemical individuality.'
Yes, people are individuals, and respond in different ways, to some degree, to different things. However, what makes your muscles grow is the same thing that makes any other person's muscles grow. The same principles apply regardless of the individual. Individual factors simply serve as a context, and when it comes down to doing what's 'best,' it must be examined at an individual level. However, the principles apply to everybody. Assuming they're true and all.
Intensity caps duration...every time
Originally Posted by blowdpanis
Inferences made from animal models do not always apply to humans though. So not quite sure what your point was here.
"No such studies exist" I never claimed they do. I said (please read before posting) that it was what "I labeled them as such" NOT that they were called that, or in fact even existed. This was in response to a couple of diehards on another board. They insisted that there were indeed such studies done and I started referring to them as these "HST studies" in as much the same way as people talk about 'upper chest'. I thought Mr. restless was on about the same thing.
Who was talking about Bryan? I never mentioned him in regards to what you are talking about. I was talking about studies that prove HST is the best training method ever. I was asking to see studies that scientifically prove training 3 days a week is better than one.
You state that "when it comes down to doing what's 'best' it must be examined at a individual level". Exactly my point. Go back and read my posts again.
Last edited by Songsangnim; 08-12-2004 at 07:48 AM.
I have to agree with EA. You guys could go on and on. All things being equal restless you would be correct, but all things are not equal. The human body is complex. There are so many variables that will effect how benefical a particular routine will be to an individual. Nutrition, the different ratios of muscle fiber types, hormonal levels, supplementation, etc., they all play a role and none of them are the same between two human beings. You have to figure out what works best for you and stick with it.
Personally, I gain really well doing a full body routine 3 days a week.
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Originally Posted by TBone4Eva
Exactly. And I gain well from a once a week routine. Does this mean one of us is lying? No. it simply means through trial and error and reading we have each found a routine that works well for each of us. By the way, those people who claim that you MUST do a full body routine 3 days a week, might want to look at Chris Mason's journal. Here is a example of a man who trains bodyparts LESS frequently than once a week and STILL gains. (If I am wrong about Mr. Mason's training routines, I am sure he will correct me)
I'll suggest two things.Originally Posted by ExtremeAnabolic
1) Personal trial and error in and of itself probably isn't the best way to figure out what 'works' best, simply because there are too many training variables to consider, and endless iterations or interpretations of each of these. We ALL start with a general idea of how stuff works, and then experiment from there.
What's being suggested is that the 'standard' for growth should lean in the direction of more frequent training.
2) Just because more frequent training might be more optimal for growth does not mean other protocols won't work well.
Saying that you can drive to work by going on streets X, Y, and Z doesn't mean that you couldn't also get there via A, B, and C. There's multiple paths we can take that will lead us to the same place. All that's being considered here is a question of 'optimization.'
Ie 'what's optimal.' While individual variation has to be considered, 'what makes us grow best' in principle is not going to change from one person to the next. This is a very important point to understand.
Last edited by blowdpanis; 08-13-2004 at 07:50 PM.