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Thread: push pull split sucks in my opinion....

  1. #1
    Senior Member Darcy Tucker's Avatar
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    push pull split sucks in my opinion....

    That's right I'm dissing the most famous split.

    In my opinion it is less effective than pairing


    -chest, back

    -legs

    -shoulders,arms

    The reason I think this is that when you do a push pull split almost all your lifts will be puny except the first one. If you know what I mean. On the other split I mentioned each set can be heavy weight. Your muscles won't be fatigued. I'm going to leave it at that. I already wrote a post like this about 5 months ago but I thought I'd just let the new guys hear my opinion.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Darcy Tucker's Avatar
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    Another comment I want to say is that those guys at As-stt (max ot) were cutting up training methods like forced reps and pyramiding. And I completely agree with them. I'll get the actuall article if you guys want to see it.

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    Powerlifting Stoner pastdoubt's Avatar
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    I want to see it.

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    Geordie The_Chicken_Daddy's Avatar
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    That's very similar to the routine that charles stanley suggests.

    I agree that push pull legs is crap too - but i do it ever second week.

    I find that delts after chest is a pretty crappy session, so i do delts with back every second week and then with chest and tris every other.

    That way my delts gets hit ever 5 days and then every 10 days. I've only been doing it for 2 weeks so i can't really tell you how effective it is yet.

    If i ever move back to a 4 day split i'll do the following:

    day one: back [because everyone does chest on monday - it's like BBing rule...]
    day two: chest
    day three: rest
    day four: legs:
    day five: delts/arms
    days six and seven: rest.

    That way you can put pretty much max effort into all parts.
    "Geordie/'d3c:di/n. & adj. Brit colloq. n. 1 a native of Tyneside. 2 the dialect spoken on Tyneside. adj. of or relating to Tyneside, its people, or its dialect. [the name George + -IE]

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    Re:you suck in my opinion....

    How could you train your chest/ back with any kind of intensity in the same day? Talk about getting fatigued, besides the fact of being in the gym for too long.....I'm ready to puke after back day, not bench LOL

    It doesn't matter that you'd have say, "puny" tricep lifts after training chest...your tri's will be pre exausted, and it won't take much more to finish them off.... That makes much more sense then to start off a fresh large muscle group like chest or back after your body is already worn down from training the other...

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    Last edited by beercan; 11-01-2001 at 06:40 AM.

  10. #10
    As I Am Paul Stagg's Avatar
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    Push pull legs worked great for me.

    I like the idea of training the body as a system, and training like movements together.

    Does my OH press suffer after benching? Yep. So what? If I find my shoulders lag, I just specialize on them later.

    Like BC, I can't train chest and back on the same day with enough intensity.
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    I dunno, but I have a couple of thoughts on this because I've thought about splitting them up...

    1. I don't know that I'd have enough steam to do back and chest properly on the same day;

    2. The delts are really not that big a muscle group, and they do get worked pretty well doing chest, especially incline;

    3. If you are going for increasing weight in overhead pressing, and the push/pull seems to work best for you, do overhead pressing first, while you're still fresh. Alternate week to week, ohp first, then bench one week; bench then ohp the next week.

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    Baby Seal Clubber ElPietro's Avatar
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    *pulls Darcy in*

    *kicks Darcy in shin*

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    it's my variation push/legs/pull...

    i think that split is good so shaddap...
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    It's been my understanding that pretty much everything works if you train well enough. If you're training with intensity it's pretty darn hard to do both with the same workout, especially with upper body.

    It's also my understanding that not all programs are effective for everyone. Some people thrive on push/pull, some don't. You obviously don't and felt the need to share that. Thanks so much for sharing.


  14. #14
    Senior Member Darcy Tucker's Avatar
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    I'm talking about mostly progression on lifts. I haven't been lifting weights long enough to really compare muscle results with both. But from a strength perspective I've noticed that my lifts go up faster with chest and back paired etc.....

    Right now I'm not doing deadlifts so I can do chest and back together fine. I don't find it to much yet.

  15. #15
    Senior Member hemants's Avatar
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    I like the push pull split but sometimes I move my shoulders to back day.

    If I do em on chest day then I only do one set of verticle presses and focus on side laterals.

    If I do em on back day then I do the whole shmebang but then I have to wait for a couple days after chest days or my tri's are still burning.

    Also, for me, putting arms on a seperate day during the same week where I'm doing chest and back is overkill.

    I'd rather do my bi's on back day and my tri's on chest day.

    Like Paul said, the fact that chest day works tri's and front delts is a good thing when you think of economizing your effort for maximum results. That's why we focus on compound movements to begin with isn't it?

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    Bigger fewl
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    Darcy, just to let you know, you don't really have any credible argument to support your position
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  17. #17
    Senior Member Darcy Tucker's Avatar
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    At least I didn't steal somebody elses nickname.tuttut


    I do have somewhat of an argument. For example on push day if you bench first your shoulder and tricep lifts are going to fluctuate and most likely be weak. It's definitely a good workout and your muscles get fatigued a lot but remember fatiguing your muscles doesn't make them bigger. Overload does. And how are you going to overload your muscles if you are lifting puny weights besides your sets of bench press. I personally don't spend time lifting weights that I know I could lift easily if I was fresh. The same goes for Skip La Cour

  18. #18
    Cardio bunny Alex.V's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Darcy Tucker
    For example on push day if you bench first your shoulder and tricep lifts are going to fluctuate and most likely be weak.
    So don't do shoulders on chest day.

    I disagree on the tricep bit.

    1) What are the two primary movers in a bench press? Yeah.

    2) After a big lift, you can still exert plenty of force, enough to stimulate growth. I can prove this. You can't disprove it.



    Therefore, in conclusion,

    I liek trukcs.
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  19. #19
    Senior Member Darcy Tucker's Avatar
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    Here's some of the stuff Paul Dillet and Skip La Cour have agreed on I got of the Max Ot website.

    "This critical between set recovery phase (STR) is exactly why Max-OT does not incorporate "super-sets", "pre-exhaustion", or other fatigue inducing techniques. We'll get deeper into later, but realize right now that fatigue does not build muscle - overload builds muscle. Fatigue simply fatigues. Once a muscle is fatigued it can't be properly overloaded.

    Most all lifters confuse fatigue with overload. This will take some logical thinking on your part to separate the two - again because of all the miss-information published in the magazines. Things like "feel the burn" are not what building muscle is about.


    "Do Not" Specifics.

    1. Do not pyramid unnecessarily.

    One of the worst training methods ever introduced is pyramid training. This is where you start out light and then add small increments of weight with each set - going to failure each set until you get to your heaviest set. After the heavy set you then lighten the weight just opposite to how you increased it on the way up. Then you complete reps to failure for each set on the way down.

    As I said, this is probably the least efficient way possible to build muscle yet it is the most common training approach used today. So if you are training this way the first thing you should ask yourself is - Why do I do this?

    When you structure your sets like this, for whatever muscle group you are training, you deprive them of not only the overload they are capable of, but also the overload needed to induce efficient muscle growth

  20. #20
    Geordie The_Chicken_Daddy's Avatar
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    But Darcy, aren't you forgetting something?

    If your bench is improving each week, then chances are your delts and triceps will be also.
    "Geordie/'d3c:di/n. & adj. Brit colloq. n. 1 a native of Tyneside. 2 the dialect spoken on Tyneside. adj. of or relating to Tyneside, its people, or its dialect. [the name George + -IE]

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