Hello potential critics. I have a question that you could perhaps help me with.
I've been lifting seriously for close to a full year now. I'm 20 years old and am genetically pre-disposed to be skinny (ecto-morph essentially) Over the past year, i've seen mediocre results on all of my body parts i train intesnly. However, my shoulders are insanely small. I'm talking cartoonishly disproportionate to my arm. In fact, i think my upper arm is slightly larger than my delts when fully flexed. It's pretty disheartening.
My work out schedule lately has been:
Shoulder presses (db)
shoulder presses (machine)
delt raises front, side, and a focus on the rear as they dont get much work otherwise.
all of this once a week, with the regular 8-10 rep range until exhausted, about 4 sets a piece.
my diet isn't that bad as evidenced in my overall improvment. I suppose my quesitons are:
1) Is it possible that i've genetically maxed my delts out already as i've seen essentially 0% progress in the last few months despite no change in habits?
2) Is this a normal occurance in bodybuilders of my type? i know maybe one person with a smaller skeletal strucure than me.
3) Are there any exercises in particular that have helped you out in a slump? any that i should be doing that are particularly effective?
i have a question.
i currently do shoulder press followed by lat raise followed by post lat raise. now im quite content with these workouts. however i was wondering if i should start doing anterior raises. i tried doing it once or twice a while back and it just felt like it was putting a lot of pressure on my elbows. what do you think?
you could probably gain more size in your shoulders by focusing mainly on a press exercise...I would recommend military barbell
It looks to me that you are seriously overtraining your shoulders. I have a question. When you mention delt raises, do you mean that you do 4 sets for each delt head, or 4 sets total for all three?Originally Posted by TappyT
The way you wrote it seems to be the former.
Also take into account that when you train back and chest you are also training shoulders indirectly. So you train shoulders twice a week indirectly plus also hit them directly with a ton of work once a week. This means that shoulders are getting hit three times a week. (Feel free to correct me, if I have made any mistakes here so far).
What I would do is stop training shoulders all together. If you are overtraining ( and from what you have posted this seems to be the most likely alternative) you should see some gains in shoulder size, if you are training chest and back hard and heavy.
If you feel that you absolutely must do some shoulder work, limit yourself to no more than 3-4 heavy sets of military shoulder presses. That coupled with the work they (shoulders) get from back and chest should be more than sufficient.
Last edited by Songsangnim; 08-21-2004 at 12:52 AM.
You're shoulders really do get a good workout, there is no need to do those exercises for 4 sets a piece. I don't even directly train shoulders every week like other body parts, but maybe every other week. When I do train shoulders, I do DB press, military press, and thats it. I do about 2-3 sets each. Thats plenty of shoulder work, especially since I'm continually working shoulders with the other exercises I do, e.g.. bench press.
I'd definitely recommend swapping the standing military press for the machine shoulder press. When done properly, the military press is a staple exercise to your shoulder workout in my opinion, like bench is to chest military press is to shoulders.
For direct shoulder work, I do a triset... one set of front raises, one set of lateral raises, and one set of BB military press. I do thi son back day. Any more, and I'd worry about overtraining.
They say that when your ships comes in
The first man takes the sails
Second takes the afterdeck
The third: the planks and rails.
Unless I'm wrong, side delts don't get any indirect work from any compound movement, do they... The front delts do. Rear delts come into action for rows, and maybe also pullups IIRC. So IMO lateral raises or upright rows should be in any shoulder routine.
for upright rows, isnt it better to go with a wider grip to hit the delts best, or is it a closer grip?
Beer helped slow down my metabolism.... -ozzyman
I think it's a close grip. Haven't done that in a long time though.
Why don't you try throwing in some plate raises. Just grab a plate with both hands and lift to the front. Do them slow and controlled and fell the burn in the front delts.
I added these to my workout and it has seemed to help.
If the bar aint bending your just pretending!!!!
So generally it seems i may be overtraining them. That sounds like it could very well be the problem.
Thanks a lot for the solid advice everyone. I appreciate it.
Before you write off your routine, how long have you been training? and what weight are you moving on these given shoulder movements?
If you were to work upto Overhead Press x BW for reps, then i'd guarantee that your delts would have decent size (providing you eat to grow). The routine ultimately doesn't really make or break whether you'll gain size, its the specifics of progression, diet, rest etc... Hence why many use varying routines and get results.
The only limits are the one's you place on yourself...
Originally Posted by Big-Ron
Yes many people use varying routines and get results. However for someone that is genetically average and a non-drug user a routine that is low volume seems to work in the majority of cases. Doing 20+ sets for shoulders is definitely overkill for such a person and in all likeihood will result in injury somewhere along the line.