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Thread: 2 exercises...thoughts

  1. #1
    permanently bulking Titanium_Jim's Avatar
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    2 exercises...thoughts

    My first question is about pullovers. Anyone with lots of experience with these have opinions on how well they work? I've had one friend who liked to do those but no one else has said anything about them. I basically want to know if they are even close to as effective as chinups/pullups. Also, can you do these with dbs instead of a bb? My pullup bar is pretty ghetto-rigged, it's a luggage rack balanced on a beam holding up my roof on my back porch, so I had to put one hand on either side of the beam and pull my head up on one side then the other. This made my strong side overcompensate somehow, making my right lat at least 3 times the size of my left.

    The other question is about upright rows. Someone has said these were dangerous, and I don't see how. I've had some success with them, and never any pain. Is there a chance of rotator or shoulder injury if the form is bad enough, like hand placement too close together?
    "I would have had sex with a pornstar, slapped a bitch and stole someone's dog." - deeder
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  2. #2
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    i used to do upright rows. it eventually caught up to me and hurt my shoulders. i stopped doing em and have since been better. i tried all diff hand places narrow wide w/e. dumbells are my friend since that!

  3. #3
    permanently bulking Titanium_Jim's Avatar
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    upright rows with dbs? And do you know exactly what injures your shoulders from upright rows and how dbs would take away the risk?
    "I would have had sex with a pornstar, slapped a bitch and stole someone's dog." - deeder
    "Ever heard the term "screwing like rabbits? There's a reason it came about, and it has nothing to do with putting up drywall." - mrelwooddowd
    "If you are looking for a workout that will make you sore, you need to reassess your priorities, and perhaps look for an S&M club in your area." - Paul Stagg
    "I do encourage that people laugh at the fact I've put ass creme on my face." - Rock Steady
    "I look like a condom full of walnuts." - Risk10k
    "...the mothers would hang out of the window to get a piece of my little peanut ass and my bronzelike skin." - Rock

  4. #4
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    no i ment i do dumbell over head presses now. upright rows for me are asking for month long problems.

  5. #5
    permanently bulking Titanium_Jim's Avatar
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    Okay, so upright rows can cause wrist and shoulder problems, but does anyone do pullovers?
    "I would have had sex with a pornstar, slapped a bitch and stole someone's dog." - deeder
    "Ever heard the term "screwing like rabbits? There's a reason it came about, and it has nothing to do with putting up drywall." - mrelwooddowd
    "If you are looking for a workout that will make you sore, you need to reassess your priorities, and perhaps look for an S&M club in your area." - Paul Stagg
    "I do encourage that people laugh at the fact I've put ass creme on my face." - Rock Steady
    "I look like a condom full of walnuts." - Risk10k
    "...the mothers would hang out of the window to get a piece of my little peanut ass and my bronzelike skin." - Rock

  6. #6
    teh Chuy. Frozenmoses's Avatar
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    I do DB pullovers. I feel they hit my lats moreso than chins. Yes, you can do them with a DB.

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    permanently bulking Titanium_Jim's Avatar
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    Do you do them with bent or straight arms or both?
    "I would have had sex with a pornstar, slapped a bitch and stole someone's dog." - deeder
    "Ever heard the term "screwing like rabbits? There's a reason it came about, and it has nothing to do with putting up drywall." - mrelwooddowd
    "If you are looking for a workout that will make you sore, you need to reassess your priorities, and perhaps look for an S&M club in your area." - Paul Stagg
    "I do encourage that people laugh at the fact I've put ass creme on my face." - Rock Steady
    "I look like a condom full of walnuts." - Risk10k
    "...the mothers would hang out of the window to get a piece of my little peanut ass and my bronzelike skin." - Rock

  8. #8
    teh Chuy. Frozenmoses's Avatar
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    I generally keep mine bent.

  9. #9
    permanently bulking Titanium_Jim's Avatar
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    Awesome, thanks. I'm glad you can do them with dbs. It's ridiculous how lopsided my lats are. I can do A FEW on-handed chins with my right and probably can't get one with my left. This will hopefully balance things out after maybe a year or so HA!
    "I would have had sex with a pornstar, slapped a bitch and stole someone's dog." - deeder
    "Ever heard the term "screwing like rabbits? There's a reason it came about, and it has nothing to do with putting up drywall." - mrelwooddowd
    "If you are looking for a workout that will make you sore, you need to reassess your priorities, and perhaps look for an S&M club in your area." - Paul Stagg
    "I do encourage that people laugh at the fact I've put ass creme on my face." - Rock Steady
    "I look like a condom full of walnuts." - Risk10k
    "...the mothers would hang out of the window to get a piece of my little peanut ass and my bronzelike skin." - Rock

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    I prefer pullovers on the lat pulldown station...always worked for me.

  11. #11
    permanently bulking Titanium_Jim's Avatar
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    And do you perform them with straight arm, bent arm, or both? And do you think it makes a difference? I would think that straight arm would emphasize the lats and forearms more, but also have a higher risk of bad form and/or injury. Thanks for replies. I'll add these after my chins.

    *Edit: oh you said ON the lat pulldown station huh? Is that like pulldowns with straight arms instead of traditional lat pulldowns? I would be doing pulldowns except I do all my exercising at home. The only free gyms I've had access to were crappy little weightrooms with few machines, and very ghetto. The lat pulldown machine didn't have a leg restraint, and since I can pulldown more than my body weight, I was pulling myself off the seat. Pretty useless. I'd really like to move into an apartment complex with a decent weightroom.
    Last edited by Titanium_Jim; 10-29-2004 at 11:38 PM.
    "I would have had sex with a pornstar, slapped a bitch and stole someone's dog." - deeder
    "Ever heard the term "screwing like rabbits? There's a reason it came about, and it has nothing to do with putting up drywall." - mrelwooddowd
    "If you are looking for a workout that will make you sore, you need to reassess your priorities, and perhaps look for an S&M club in your area." - Paul Stagg
    "I do encourage that people laugh at the fact I've put ass creme on my face." - Rock Steady
    "I look like a condom full of walnuts." - Risk10k
    "...the mothers would hang out of the window to get a piece of my little peanut ass and my bronzelike skin." - Rock

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium_Jim
    . The only free gyms I've had access to were crappy little weightrooms with few machines, and very ghetto. The lat pulldown machine didn't have a leg restraint, and since I can pulldown more than my body weight, I was pulling myself off the seat. .

    Did you have heavy DB's there? If you do, then the next time anchor yourself by carrying the heaviest pair over to the lat machine. Place them on the floor where your feet would be and then slip your feet under the handles.

    As for pullovers I do them on a bench with the top of my head level with the end of the bench. I use a DB and bent arms. Straight arms (I think) increase the risk of injury.

  13. #13
    Strength & Protection Kiaran's Avatar
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    I do DB pullovers also. Although I do them for the "mythological" reasons I've read all the threads/articles on here about expanding the rib cage and I came to the conclusion that there is no evidence of either way being true. So...I really like the stretching/sore feeling I get inbetween each rib (intercostal muscles) after doing about 3 sets of 15 reps. I do them with really light weight (a 30-35 lb DB) and hold the stretch for a couple seconds on each rep. For my lats, I do chins.

    I used to do upright rows religiously. I always preferred the EZ Bar. I got up to about 80 lbs + EZB weight. The thing was that it always put my wrists at bad angles at the top of the lift and they began to hurt quite a bit from the exercise. Since then, I moved on to standing lateral raises and I just recently added seated bent lateral raises for my rear delts. Both these mofos do more for my shoulders, with no strain on my wrists than uprights ever did. If you look at the motions too, they are pretty much the same movement (in the shoulders), just isolated instead of compound.
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  14. #14
    Go Heels! MixmasterNash's Avatar
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    DB pullovers are probably one of the more useless yet overused exercises in existence.

    All you're getting is a stretch and some work in a very small ROM. Straight arm cable pulldowns, pullover machines, and front levers all offer more tension over a much, MUCH larger ROM.

    Pullups are also a much better back exercise than pullovers.
    Last edited by MixmasterNash; 10-30-2004 at 04:07 PM.

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    permanently bulking Titanium_Jim's Avatar
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    Thanks everyone. ExtremeAnabolic, that's a good idea, but this gym had no dbs at all. It was like a crappy press machine with very little ROM, a leg press machine, a pulldown station, and 5 cardio machines (treadmills, exercise bikes). Anyway I don't go there anymore. I only did because it had a basketball court adjacent to it.
    Nash, yea, I still do chinups, but because of the way my chinup bar is set up, my right lat takes over way too much and I needed an exercise that isolates arms so my left can catch up eventually. I am still going to continue pullups, but I will also add db pullovers.
    Another question, what else is worked by pullovers? Since there is the soreness between ribs and it just seems like more than a lat movement to me, I just wondered.
    "I would have had sex with a pornstar, slapped a bitch and stole someone's dog." - deeder
    "Ever heard the term "screwing like rabbits? There's a reason it came about, and it has nothing to do with putting up drywall." - mrelwooddowd
    "If you are looking for a workout that will make you sore, you need to reassess your priorities, and perhaps look for an S&M club in your area." - Paul Stagg
    "I do encourage that people laugh at the fact I've put ass creme on my face." - Rock Steady
    "I look like a condom full of walnuts." - Risk10k
    "...the mothers would hang out of the window to get a piece of my little peanut ass and my bronzelike skin." - Rock

  16. #16
    teh Chuy. Frozenmoses's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MixmasterNash
    DB is probably one of the more useless yet overused exercises in existence.

    All you're getting is a stretch and some work in a very small ROM. Straight arm cable pulldowns, pullover machines, and front levers all offer more tension over a much, MUCH larger ROM.

    Pullups are also a much better back exercise than pullovers.
    Are you saying DB Pullovers are useless, or pullovers in general are useless? If the former, what is it about DB's that make them inferior to other types of pullovers?

  17. #17
    permanently bulking Titanium_Jim's Avatar
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    I'm kind of curious about that too.

    Also, do you think it makes any difference if you do pullovers on a decline?
    "I would have had sex with a pornstar, slapped a bitch and stole someone's dog." - deeder
    "Ever heard the term "screwing like rabbits? There's a reason it came about, and it has nothing to do with putting up drywall." - mrelwooddowd
    "If you are looking for a workout that will make you sore, you need to reassess your priorities, and perhaps look for an S&M club in your area." - Paul Stagg
    "I do encourage that people laugh at the fact I've put ass creme on my face." - Rock Steady
    "I look like a condom full of walnuts." - Risk10k
    "...the mothers would hang out of the window to get a piece of my little peanut ass and my bronzelike skin." - Rock

  18. #18
    teh Chuy. Frozenmoses's Avatar
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    A decline would probably limit your ROM with the exercise since you wouldn't be able to go as far back, depending on how close your head is to the ground.

  19. #19
    Go Heels! MixmasterNash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frozenmoses
    Are you saying DB Pullovers are useless, or pullovers in general are useless? If the former, what is it about DB's that make them inferior to other types of pullovers?
    The pullover motion is quite useful; however, gravity only works against you in part of the pullover motion with free weights. In a typical pullover, there is basically no resistance in the top part of the ROM. The cable/bar and machine versions maintain a constant resistance, which is much more useful.

    However, pullovers are of secondary important to lat development to critical exercises such as pullups and even pulldowns.

    Anyway, front levers are still the best. Here is the most bad ass front lever of all time:
    Last edited by MixmasterNash; 11-02-2004 at 11:37 PM.

  20. #20
    teh Chuy. Frozenmoses's Avatar
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    Okay, this I agree with. Yes, your lats are only engaged during one part of the motion of a freeweight pullover, which is definitely inferior to a cable/lever machine offering constant resistance. And yes, that lever looks pretty hella.

  21. #21
    permanently bulking Titanium_Jim's Avatar
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    That lever is awesome. I had back and bi day today and I felt that limit of lat work movement because of gravity, like I knew it would. Still got what I think was a great lat workout, as I did them after chins/pulls. I love the feeling of having my own ass kicked by my muscles. Oh and I tried a couple of light light reps on decline just to feel it out (incline bench body opposite way, I'm ghetto) because I thought at a little bit of a tilt maybe the limitation from gravity would be lessened a little, but it felt like a lower back injury waiting to happen.
    "I would have had sex with a pornstar, slapped a bitch and stole someone's dog." - deeder
    "Ever heard the term "screwing like rabbits? There's a reason it came about, and it has nothing to do with putting up drywall." - mrelwooddowd
    "If you are looking for a workout that will make you sore, you need to reassess your priorities, and perhaps look for an S&M club in your area." - Paul Stagg
    "I do encourage that people laugh at the fact I've put ass creme on my face." - Rock Steady
    "I look like a condom full of walnuts." - Risk10k
    "...the mothers would hang out of the window to get a piece of my little peanut ass and my bronzelike skin." - Rock

  22. #22
    permanently bulking Titanium_Jim's Avatar
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    Is it normal to have DOMS in your upper abs after pullovers? Or does that mean I moved my core too much in the reps?

    Overall, very effective. I notice a difference in my left lat strength, size and shape already. Great exercise for after chins.

    *Edit: Oh, and nash, I'm not ignoring what you're saying, I just have no access to a gym, so everything I do is at home.
    Last edited by Titanium_Jim; 11-06-2004 at 01:45 AM.
    "I would have had sex with a pornstar, slapped a bitch and stole someone's dog." - deeder
    "Ever heard the term "screwing like rabbits? There's a reason it came about, and it has nothing to do with putting up drywall." - mrelwooddowd
    "If you are looking for a workout that will make you sore, you need to reassess your priorities, and perhaps look for an S&M club in your area." - Paul Stagg
    "I do encourage that people laugh at the fact I've put ass creme on my face." - Rock Steady
    "I look like a condom full of walnuts." - Risk10k
    "...the mothers would hang out of the window to get a piece of my little peanut ass and my bronzelike skin." - Rock

  23. #23
    permanently bulking Titanium_Jim's Avatar
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    With db pullovers, would you want to keep your arms in as much as possible? What would be the positioning that is most effective and least likely to cause injury?
    "I would have had sex with a pornstar, slapped a bitch and stole someone's dog." - deeder
    "Ever heard the term "screwing like rabbits? There's a reason it came about, and it has nothing to do with putting up drywall." - mrelwooddowd
    "If you are looking for a workout that will make you sore, you need to reassess your priorities, and perhaps look for an S&M club in your area." - Paul Stagg
    "I do encourage that people laugh at the fact I've put ass creme on my face." - Rock Steady
    "I look like a condom full of walnuts." - Risk10k
    "...the mothers would hang out of the window to get a piece of my little peanut ass and my bronzelike skin." - Rock

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