The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
    LittleJake JSully's Avatar
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    New diet, need opinions

    Well, here's another critique my diet thread. I'm not sure how this will work or not, but it falls off of a combination of other bodybuilding diets and the UD2. So hopefully it'll work. My workouts consist of:

    Monday- Chest/Tris
    Tuesday- Legs
    Wednesday - Back/Bis
    Thursday - Shoulders/Traps
    Friday - Bis/Tris/Forearms

    All bodyparts except arms get 6 exercises @ 3 sets of 15 per exercise with 60-90 seconds rest between sets. As far as arms go, I'll do 3 exercises per bodypart (bis/tris) with 3 sets of 15 per exercise. OK.

    As far as cardio goes, everyday I do 40 minutes on the elliptical and another 20 laps in the pool. I have a slow metabolism so that's why I have to do all the cardio. Now as for the diet. Here it is, tell me how I can make it better. My LBM is about 220lbs roughly.

    I put it into a screenshot from excel so its easier to read than me copying and pasting here. So just click on the attachment to see the diet.
    Attached Images Attached Images

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  3. #2
    The Chicken Mr'ga
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    i dont think that diet would work too well if its a spin off of UD2. basically the 1st 4 days of UD2 aims to deplete glucogin (bad spelling, but meh?) storages.. hence the low calories and 2 full body workouts + 1hr of cardio, and then the tension workout.. your not going to be depleting correctly with your routine, so when it comes to the weekend, youll notice youll get a little pudgy & fatloss wont be nowhere near as effective.
    Last edited by iLUDEd; 10-05-2004 at 01:45 AM.
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  4. #3
    Journalist galileo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iLUDEd
    i dont think that diet would work too well if its a spin off of UD2. basically the 1st 4 days of UD2 aims to deplete glucogin (bad spelling, but meh?) storages.. hence the low calories and 2 full body workouts + 1hr of cardio, and then the tension workout.. your not going to be depleting correctly with your routine, so when it comes to the weekend, youll notice youll get a little pudgy & fatloss wont be nowhere near as effective.
    Glycogen. As he, um...damnit - alluded, it is not wise to try to change UD2 and use it to suit your needs in that fashion. Lyle spent a lot of time tweaking the diet and using the parts you like will cause more muscle loss and less fat loss. I'd suggest eating far more than 1400 calories a day, especially considering you weigh 240lbs. If you want to do something more extreme, do something along the lines of Twin Peaks' carb cycling (mindandmuscle.net). In that format you'd have one low calorie day (no carb), one high calorie day (high carb), one average deficit day (moderate carb).

  5. #4
    Down with the Sickness
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    No such thing as a slow metabolism first off, second if this isn't workin for you try something different. It looks to me like you eat to little during the week and to much on the weekends. Try and keep a steady 2000 to 2200 everyday and do that until you stop loosing weight, at that point lower it, but don't expect to loose 5 lbs a week on shoot for a steady 1-3 lbs a week.

  6. #5
    Journalist galileo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sublime99
    No such thing as a slow metabolism first off
    I think that is an "idea" some avant people threw out to provide claims to phenotype reassignment.

    It's quite logical that just as some people are smarter, taller, stronger, etc. - some people have bodies that require more/less energy to maintain weight. That's how people commonly use the word metabolism.

  7. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by sublime99
    No such thing as a slow metabolism first off
    What explains the fact that 2 people, same height, weight, and bodyfat, can both eat 3000 calories and one will be drastically losing weight, while the other is bulking?

  8. #7
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    LittleJake, first off, why are you doing 15 reps for all exercises? It's important to keep lifting heavy while cutting or you're going to lose a lot of muscle. The reason you do high reps in UD2 is to deplete glycogen, but then you also do a more moderate rep session and a power workout.

    My new personal preference for dieting is a modified PSMF (protein-sparing modified fast). On the real PSMF you eat 1.5g protein/lb bodyweight and 6g of fish oil every day...that's it. The fat will just melt off you with this diet (and it's surprisingly muscle-sparing), but as Lyle stated in his UD2 book, your metabolism can basically shutdown in as few as 4 days of severe undereating (which is what you are doing on a PSMF). Therefore, my recommendation is to follow the PSMF for 3 days, refeed on the 4th day, and repeat. I haven't figured out the best training routine to be doing while using this diet as of yet, but I'm thinking you'd workout on days 1 and 4 of the cycle (on, and the day after, the carb-up). For someone your size, the diet and training would look something like this:

    Day 1: 1500 cals + lower body workout
    Day 2: 1500 cals + optional cardio
    Day 3: 1500 cals + optional cardio
    Day 4: 5000 cals + upper body workout

    Done properly, I think this could rip you up quite quickly, without much of a loss in strength or muscle mass.

  9. #8
    LittleJake JSully's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sublime99
    No such thing as a slow metabolism first off
    Well call it what you will but all I have to do is smell food and I gain weight. I can gain weight off of 2500 cals with the right training, and I weigh 240lbs. I was doing the UD2, and it WORKS, but I'm tired of spending 3 hours a night doing full body workouts. I'll do a fullbody workout and then cardio, and I was losing a steady 2-3 lbs of FAT per week and all my lifts stayed the same.

    In a ditch effort to stop doing the full body is why I thought up this diet. The way I figured was in the UD2 you do 18 total sets throughout the week per bodypart (except arms) to deplete glycogen levels. So, in that matter, I'd do 18 sets per bodypart throughout the week as I have set up. The sets of 15 are to aid in glycogen depletion for that bodypart. As well as cardio to help with free fatty acids. BTW, I know if I lose 5 lbs in a week I'm losing more than fat. But I havent been, and I'm just allaround tired of this diet. So I'm taking a week off to think up another one.

    Quote Originally Posted by galileo
    Glycogen. As he, um...damnit - alluded, it is not wise to try to change UD2 and use it to suit your needs in that fashion. Lyle spent a lot of time tweaking the diet and using the parts you like will cause more muscle loss and less fat loss. I'd suggest eating far more than 1400 calories a day, especially considering you weigh 240lbs. If you want to do something more extreme, do something along the lines of Twin Peaks' carb cycling (mindandmuscle.net). In that format you'd have one low calorie day (no carb), one high calorie day (high carb), one average deficit day (moderate carb).
    I checked out that website and it sounds pretty easy. A little too easy, but I'm thinking of trying it. I'm a super endomorph in which I gain muscle AND fat VERY easy yet losing fat is like trying to take a piece of ice into hell without it melting, it just wont happen!

    Quote Originally Posted by Vido
    My new personal preference for dieting is a modified PSMF (protein-sparing modified fast). On the real PSMF you eat 1.5g protein/lb bodyweight and 6g of fish oil every day...that's it. The fat will just melt off you with this diet (and it's surprisingly muscle-sparing), but as Lyle stated in his UD2 book, your metabolism can basically shutdown in as few as 4 days of severe undereating (which is what you are doing on a PSMF). Therefore, my recommendation is to follow the PSMF for 3 days, refeed on the 4th day, and repeat. I haven't figured out the best training routine to be doing while using this diet as of yet, but I'm thinking you'd workout on days 1 and 4 of the cycle (on, and the day after, the carb-up). For someone your size, the diet and training would look something like this:

    Day 1: 1500 cals + lower body workout
    Day 2: 1500 cals + optional cardio
    Day 3: 1500 cals + optional cardio
    Day 4: 5000 cals + upper body workout

    Done properly, I think this could rip you up quite quickly, without much of a loss in strength or muscle mass.
    I appreciate you're help and suggestion, do you have any other kind of sources to the information for me to read up on so that I can have a little better general idea?
    Last edited by JSully; 10-05-2004 at 07:28 PM.

  10. #9
    Senior Member geoffgarcia's Avatar
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    spend 40$ and get dietorganizer its well worth it

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by LittleJake
    I appreciate you're help and suggestion, do you have any other kind of sources to the information for me to read up on so that I can have a little better general idea?
    There's lots of information on the original PSMF on Lyle's board:

    www.bodyrecomposition.com

    Personally though I don't see how you can just ignore the fact that your metabolism would be completely shutdown doing a PSMF. People on the board ask how one can begin adding calories after a significant amount of time dieting using the PSMF and all Lyle has to say is "carefully and very slowly". In other words, he's basically just admitting that you're going to gain some of the weight back. That is why I suggest the constant refeeds.

  12. #11
    LittleJake JSully's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by geoffgarcia
    spend 40$ and get dietorganizer its well worth it
    ??? Never heard of it, is that like a traditional regular organizer?

  13. #12
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    I think it's some computer program. I don't really think it's necessary.

  14. #13
    Senior Member geoffgarcia's Avatar
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    yep its a computer program.
    I used my own excel spreadsheets for about 2 years, then I tried a free 10 day trial of dietOrganizer and never looked back.
    It tracks everything and is awesome.

    The trial is free for 10 days I think, so once you get it really give it a go and get familiar with it, try to enter all ur food for the 10 days to evaluate it.

    Fitday is free, and I used that very briefly but it wasn't as good as dietOrganizer (www.dietorganizer.com)

  15. #14
    The Chicken Mr'ga
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    Vido, do you keep a joural anywhere? i wouldnt mind seeing what kind of results you'd get with the PSMF.. ive seen alot of people talkin about it over at lyle's board.
    For every $1 you donate to the "buy Lude more weight plates foundation", you will help add 1kg to my 1RM.



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    Current Stats: 85kg @ 13.6%
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  16. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by iLUDEd
    Vido, do you keep a joural anywhere? i wouldnt mind seeing what kind of results you'd get with the PSMF.. ive seen alot of people talkin about it over at lyle's board.
    I don't have a journal. I'll be doing a short cut using the diet I outlined above at the beginning of November before I start a hardcore winter bulking session. If you feel so inclined, you can PM me at that time. If not, I might end up posting my results, but we'll see.

  17. #16
    LittleJake JSully's Avatar
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    Vido:

    I was reading more about the PSMF and Lyle stated that your metabolism will only shut down as much as 30% so that when you come off of the diet, what you would do is to ease into rebuilding your metabolism. So you would figure out your maintenance caloric needs, decrease by 30% and add 100-200 calories per week.

    Reading what I have been, I'm not sure how the diet you suggested would work. I have plenty of questions about that PSMF Diet and I just posted over at the other forum to try to clear things up a little. Depending on the answers I might just try this for a month or two. Thanks for bringing it up. If you like I'll keep you posted. Let me know

  18. #17
    Cyber Playa AllUp's Avatar
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    Jake, I'd ditch the rice as it seems its adding too many carbs during the week, go for something w/less carbs. Also, I would up the fats a bit, as they are also more calorie dense and will bump up the cals a little. Maybe some nuts or olive oil, or some type of meat.

    At 240Lb's maybe up the weekly calories a little, at least into the the 1800-2100 range. Personally 2100 worked well when I was on UD2 (I was 238Lb.), although I tweaked +/-it somewhat according to my activity level(My maintenence calories when I was OFF UD2 were around 3350-3500 on normal strength training days).

    Also, I would go the traditional UD2 route (with the Power WO) as you can actually lose fat and maybe gain a little muscle to boot. The way your above workout is theres nothing planned for the weekend.

    Ad more carbs & cals on the weekend as well.

    Goodluck.
    Last edited by AllUp; 10-06-2004 at 09:17 AM.
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  19. #18
    Cyber Playa AllUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vido
    My new personal preference for dieting is a modified PSMF (protein-sparing modified fast). On the real PSMF you eat 1.5g protein/lb bodyweight and 6g of fish oil every day...that's it. The fat will just melt off you with this diet (and it's surprisingly muscle-sparing), but as Lyle stated in his UD2 book, your metabolism can basically shutdown in as few as 4 days of severe undereating (which is what you are doing on a PSMF). Therefore, my recommendation is to follow the PSMF for 3 days, refeed on the 4th day, and repeat. I haven't figured out the best training routine to be doing while using this diet as of yet, but I'm thinking you'd workout on days 1 and 4 of the cycle (on, and the day after, the carb-up). For someone your size, the diet and training would look something like this:

    Day 1: 1500 cals + lower body workout
    Day 2: 1500 cals + optional cardio
    Day 3: 1500 cals + optional cardio
    Day 4: 5000 cals + upper body workout

    Done properly, I think this could rip you up quite quickly, without much of a loss in strength or muscle mass.
    Sounds interesting. What do the macro breakdowns look like on the 5k calorie day?.
    AUIU
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  20. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by AllUp
    Sounds interesting. What do the macro breakdowns look like on the 5k calorie day?.
    I think you'd basically go by feel. For instance, if you had done the optional cardio sessions, your body would be more depleted than had you not. You're not going to be so depleted that you can take advantage of the supercompensation effect like on UD2, but I'm pretty sure that after 3 days of zero carbs and a little training and cardio that your body could handle quite a few. You're also doing your workouts on both the refeed day and the day after, so the carbs would help power you through those workouts. So, I guess what I'm saying is that it's basically a carbload.

    However, imo the purpose of this day is not glycogen replenishment or fueling yourself for the workouts. On the original PSMF you don't do either of these things, so saying that they MUST be accomplished makes little sense. The purpose of this day is to keep your metabolism running full speed, such that when you stop dieting you can go directly back to maintenance or a bulk, no transition period. So, could you do this high calorie day on low carbs? Probably, but I'm not sure why you would. If you're already throwing one stone, you may as well kill as many birds as possible.

  21. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by LittleJake
    Vido:

    I was reading more about the PSMF and Lyle stated that your metabolism will only shut down as much as 30% so that when you come off of the diet, what you would do is to ease into rebuilding your metabolism. So you would figure out your maintenance caloric needs, decrease by 30% and add 100-200 calories per week.

    Reading what I have been, I'm not sure how the diet you suggested would work. I have plenty of questions about that PSMF Diet and I just posted over at the other forum to try to clear things up a little. Depending on the answers I might just try this for a month or two. Thanks for bringing it up. If you like I'll keep you posted. Let me know
    Personally, I'd prefer my metabolism to not shut down at all. This way when you're off the diet, you don't need to be so meticulous about not gaining the weight back. In addition, it's not that hard to go low cals for 3 days knowing you can gorge yourself on the 4th; it can be quite mentally draining, however, to go low cals with no vision of the end of the diet in sight.

  22. #21
    LittleJake JSully's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AllUp
    Jake, I'd ditch the rice as it seems its adding too many carbs during the week, go for something w/less carbs. Also, I would up the fats a bit, as they are also more calorie dense and will bump up the cals a little. Maybe some nuts or olive oil, or some type of meat.

    At 240Lb's maybe up the weekly calories a little, at least into the the 1800-2100 range. Personally 2100 worked well when I was on UD2 (I was 238Lb.), although I tweaked +/-it somewhat according to my activity level(My maintenence calories when I was OFF UD2 were around 3350-3500 on normal strength training days).

    Also, I would go the traditional UD2 route (with the Power WO) as you can actually lose fat and maybe gain a little muscle to boot. The way your above workout is theres nothing planned for the weekend.

    Ad more carbs & cals on the weekend as well.

    Goodluck.
    Your advice puts me RIGHT back to where I was, the UD2. I DON'T want to do the UD2 anymore right now because I'm tired of the long a$$ workouts and overall I'm just bored with the diet. I still AM getting results but I just dont want to do that anymore. Also, the carb load makes me sick and I feel horrible all saturday and sunday because I feel that I'm not losing during those days. Gaining more size right now is not an issue so I don't really care about that. I just want to lose fat and keep whatever I have. If worse comes to worse I'll just go back to the UD2. But for now I'm looking for something else. And also, if I could lose weight at 2100-2500 calories I wouldn't be in this predicament to start with. I have to go super low to lose weight being that I am endomorph and it sucks a$$!

    Quote Originally Posted by Vido
    Personally, I'd prefer my metabolism to not shut down at all. This way when you're off the diet, you don't need to be so meticulous about not gaining the weight back. In addition, it's not that hard to go low cals for 3 days knowing you can gorge yourself on the 4th; it can be quite mentally draining, however, to go low cals with no vision of the end of the diet in sight.
    Also, with some T3 (cytomel) the metabolism slowing is not a big deal because the T3 accelerates it anyways. It IS mentally draining but once you get used to it everything will be fine. Before I learned much about dieting I always had too little protein and WAY too little carbs in which I was very catabolic. BUT with this diet 330g of protein is quite a bit to take in in one day. It's only 1000 calories but still a decent amt of food:

    16 eggwhites = 56g
    1 1/2 can tuna = 49.5
    1 1/2 pieces chicken = 61.5
    1 1/2 can tuna = 49.5
    1 1/2 pieces chicken = 61.5
    16 eggwhites = 56

    That totals out to 334g protein. That seems like quite a bit to eat in one day. And because you're taking in so much protein, it's supposed to be pretty anti-catabolic. So I'm waiting to have a few questions answered over at the bodyrecomposition forum then I'll make my decision on which diet to try: The PSMF or the Twin Peaks carb cycleing program.

    If neither of those work, then it's back to the UD2!

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