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Thread: Not to do flat bench and decline bench in same day?

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    eek... it's lil' Fixation! fixationdarknes's Avatar
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    Not to do flat bench and decline bench in same day?

    I read an article on http://www.bodybuilding.com/ that said not to do flat bench and decline bench in same day because they are essentially the same muscle or something?

    Here is the quote- Do not do both flat and decline presses in the same workout. From an anatomical standpoint, there are actually distinct upper and lower chest muscle fibers; there is no such thing, however, as a lower chest. Even if there were, I have yet to see anyone with a good "middle" chest and a poor "lower" chest.

    It is written by Ron Harris, here's the link- http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/ronharris10.htm I think it's a good article. It has answered many of my questions.
    Last edited by fixationdarknes; 10-07-2004 at 06:16 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatrb38
    I try to visualize that my girlfriend is under the weight and I have to push the weight up to save her. Of course it doesn't work and I just laugh as I think about the weight slowly crushing her bones. Then I remember it's me under the weight and give 200% effort to push it back up.

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    Strength & Protection Kiaran's Avatar
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    I don't bother with decline bench, but I do parallel bar dips instead. Techincally, yes, they work the same muscle, but different pieces of the muscle are worked more intensly at different angles. This is why you see people doing flat bench, inclines, dips, declines, etc. It is possible to build up just the middle portion of the pecs. This is how I developed in the past (I never did any chest exercises except flat bench DB press). Recently I began doing inclines and dips. The dips are creating a nice separation of my pecs and rib cage (finally) and the inclines are creating a little more fullness near my collar bones.
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    Wannabebig New Member HahnB's Avatar
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    I find that no matter what exersises I do for my chest, it grows the same and grows as a whole.

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    hammin'
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    :withstupi

    But I find weighted dips to be the best overall chest exercise.
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    eek... it's lil' Fixation! fixationdarknes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HahnB
    I find that no matter what exersises I do for my chest, it grows the same and grows as a whole.
    Not for me. When I do incline, I definitely feel the upper-per near the collar bone pretty sore. And when I do flat bench, I feel the middle main part sore.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatrb38
    I try to visualize that my girlfriend is under the weight and I have to push the weight up to save her. Of course it doesn't work and I just laugh as I think about the weight slowly crushing her bones. Then I remember it's me under the weight and give 200% effort to push it back up.

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    Wannabebig New Member HahnB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fixationdarknes
    Not for me. When I do incline, I definitely feel the upper-per near the collar bone pretty sore. And when I do flat bench, I feel the middle main part sore.
    I know when I do incline, it incorporates my shoulders more. Therefore, afterwards I have more of a pump in my shoulders, and it appears as though the portion of my upper chest looks "worked" but in reality that's just from my shoulders being inflated. I have never woken up in the morning and had my "upper" or "middle" chest feel sore.

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    eek... it's lil' Fixation! fixationdarknes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HahnB
    I know when I do incline, it incorporates my shoulders more. Therefore, afterwards I have more of a pump in my shoulders, and it appears as though the portion of my upper chest looks "worked" but in reality that's just from my shoulders being inflated. I have never woken up in the morning and had my "upper" or "middle" chest feel sore.
    Maybe the bench your laying on is too inclined. The degree of the bench should be no more than 45 degrees. Any higher, and the shoulders become the prime muscle worked in that exercise. The chest should be the main muscle being worked though if you're doing it right - unless I'm doing it wrong. But I've always thought that the chest should be the main muscle working in an incline press.
    Last edited by fixationdarknes; 10-08-2004 at 05:53 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatrb38
    I try to visualize that my girlfriend is under the weight and I have to push the weight up to save her. Of course it doesn't work and I just laugh as I think about the weight slowly crushing her bones. Then I remember it's me under the weight and give 200% effort to push it back up.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by trich daddy
    :withstupi

    But I find weighted dips to be the best overall chest exercise.
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    mind/body zen's Avatar
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    I would tend to agree with the idea not to do decline (or incline) in the same workout as flat. Because you are dealing with a difference of 20 degrees (tops), you are using much of the same muscle that got pre-exhausted. This is just my thinking, and not based on anything I read, but if I do full sets of flat bench, and then try to do incline, I would suspect that since my flat bench, the parts of the pec that are pre-exhausted from it are still going to get hit more than targetting up pec regions. So, every third or fouth working that included bench, I switch to incline (not more than 30degrees).
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    Baby Seal Clubber ElPietro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiaran
    I don't bother with decline bench, but I do parallel bar dips instead. Techincally, yes, they work the same muscle, but different pieces of the muscle are worked more intensly at different angles. This is why you see people doing flat bench, inclines, dips, declines, etc. It is possible to build up just the middle portion of the pecs. This is how I developed in the past (I never did any chest exercises except flat bench DB press). Recently I began doing inclines and dips. The dips are creating a nice separation of my pecs and rib cage (finally) and the inclines are creating a little more fullness near my collar bones.
    This is incorrect. If you wish to understand, feel free to do a search on the site with inner pec or inner chest, or lower chest and you'll find plenty of threads.

    As for the article, I didn't read it, but what is his point? So it works the same muscle, the pecs. Does he only do one exercise per bodypart only each workout? If not, what's the reasoning behind such a foolish bit of advice?

    Sometimes the angle is important because it incorporates other muscles to a greater or lesser degree, this in the end can facilitate greater strength on other lifts. Also, sometimes it's not only muscle stimulation you are looking for, but different forms of neural stimulation, because your body has adapted to a specific movement to the point that progress is stalled.
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    There is a reason I don't suggest that site as a good resource.
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    Formerly Nick Hatfield SW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiaran
    I don't bother with decline bench, but I do parallel bar dips instead. Techincally, yes, they work the same muscle, but different pieces of the muscle are worked more intensly at different angles. This is why you see people doing flat bench, inclines, dips, declines, etc. It is possible to build up just the middle portion of the pecs. This is how I developed in the past (I never did any chest exercises except flat bench DB press). Recently I began doing inclines and dips. The dips are creating a nice separation of my pecs and rib cage (finally) and the inclines are creating a little more fullness near my collar bones.

    I agree with the diff angles being worked, I think it's good to do in the same day :withstupi
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    Strength & Protection Kiaran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElPietro
    This is incorrect. If you wish to understand, feel free to do a search on the site with inner pec or inner chest, or lower chest and you'll find plenty of threads.

    As for the article, I didn't read it, but what is his point? So it works the same muscle, the pecs. Does he only do one exercise per bodypart only each workout? If not, what's the reasoning behind such a foolish bit of advice?

    Sometimes the angle is important because it incorporates other muscles to a greater or lesser degree, this in the end can facilitate greater strength on other lifts. Also, sometimes it's not only muscle stimulation you are looking for, but different forms of neural stimulation, because your body has adapted to a specific movement to the point that progress is stalled.
    Hmmm, well to be honest, perhaps the whole angle thing is bullsh*t, and maybe I'm just noticing changes due to the extra stimulation. I do know that from doing flat bench all the time, my incline was very week when I started and now it has gotten stronger. So...something is growing and something is working Fu*k it all, do what works right?
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiaran
    Hmmm, well to be honest, perhaps the whole angle thing is bullsh*t, and maybe I'm just noticing changes due to the extra stimulation. I do know that from doing flat bench all the time, my incline was very week when I started and now it has gotten stronger. So...something is growing and something is working :

    I see no reason why this should be a mystery in any way. As you said, in the past you never did any chest exercise except flat bench DB press. And now you are doing inclines. This is why your incline has gotten stronger, because you are now practising the movement. If you practise any exercise as opposed to not practising it, eventually (bar injury) you should be stronger in it.

  15. #15
    Senior Member geoffgarcia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExtremeAnabolic
    I see no reason why this should be a mystery in any way. As you said, in the past you never did any chest exercise except flat bench DB press. And now you are doing inclines. This is why your incline has gotten stronger, because you are now practising the movement. If you practise any exercise as opposed to not practising it, eventually (bar injury) you should be stronger in it.
    amen.
    If you dont do an exercise your mind muscle/repeat bout effect/muscle memory isn't there. Give it 3-5 weeks and you should be in the swing of things with any movement and operating near ur potential. This goes for things as similar as switching from DB to BB bench and vice versa. Its not that they are so different and your not "strong" at one...its just that you haven't done it so the muscles aren't accustomed to the movement and need some practice to get it right.

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    Baby Seal Clubber ElPietro's Avatar
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    Lol, yeah, I was going to post this, but both of you beat me to it.

    Quite often, when you start a lift, you aren't actually limited by muscular strength, but by your central nervous system. Basically, your body is not used to a new movement, so it won't allow you to lift it for fear of injury. (yes this is poorly worded, stfu ) After another few times your body has become more comfortable with the lift, so your CNS is adapting, and allowing you to lift more, and then you come close to using as much muscular output as you can.

    I think in many, if not all cases, it is the CNS that you must unlock to continue. You always here those weird stories, of people performing unusual feats of strength in some panic situation. Perhaps there is some level of stress or mental state, that can allow you to surpass CNS limitations. I'm no expert on this, but thought I'd state some thoughts since I'd already started to type something up.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by fixationdarknes
    Not for me. When I do incline, I definitely feel the upper-per near the collar bone pretty sore. And when I do flat bench, I feel the middle main part sore.
    but soarness does not equal growth
    my exprience - joined gym 10 years ago, 6 1/2 years hard weight training exprience.

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  19. #19
    Strength & Protection Kiaran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElPietro
    Lol, yeah, I was going to post this, but both of you beat me to it.

    Quite often, when you start a lift, you aren't actually limited by muscular strength, but by your central nervous system. Basically, your body is not used to a new movement, so it won't allow you to lift it for fear of injury. (yes this is poorly worded, stfu ) After another few times your body has become more comfortable with the lift, so your CNS is adapting, and allowing you to lift more, and then you come close to using as much muscular output as you can.

    I think in many, if not all cases, it is the CNS that you must unlock to continue. You always here those weird stories, of people performing unusual feats of strength in some panic situation. Perhaps there is some level of stress or mental state, that can allow you to surpass CNS limitations. I'm no expert on this, but thought I'd state some thoughts since I'd already started to type something up.

    Well, that one is easy: Adrenaline fires off from the kidneys in moments of panick and extreme stress. Adrenaline unlocks that for you. Interesting point. So...is it worthless to do Inclines, flat bench and parallel bar dips on chest day? I need a little more to go on than the article...what is your guys' experience in this?
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiaran
    Well, that one is easy: Adrenaline fires off from the kidneys in moments of panick and extreme stress. Adrenaline unlocks that for you. Interesting point. So...is it worthless to do Inclines, flat bench and parallel bar dips on chest day? I need a little more to go on than the article...what is your guys' experience in this?
    I dont think its worthless. Some of my workouts for chest include flat, incline, then some DB work.

  21. #21
    Senior Member AzBboy's Avatar
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    dang pietro, that whole bit on cns was very enlightening, thank you, gave me somethin to think about. anyways, i use to think working the angles was the way to go , but really, it was a waste of time *to me.* flat benching works *my* chest in its entirety, i always feel the whole area hit when i flat bench. ive read books tho that flatbenching only causes droopy bottom heavy pecks, and i also read that inclines and declines are complet wastes of time. dam training books always contradict eachother. i think this is another example of ''whatever works for your particular body'' dont u hate those haha

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