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Thread: Entire Army Unit Refuses Orders in Iraq

  1. #1
    Go Heels! MixmasterNash's Avatar
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    Entire Army Unit Refuses Orders in Iraq

    Things are going from bad to worse.

    Copy of original article:
    Platoon defies orders in Iraq
    http://www.armytimes.com/story.php?f...925-453911.php

    "A 17-member Army Reserve platoon with troops from Jackson, Miss., and around the Southeast deployed to Iraq is under arrest for refusing a “suicide mission” to deliver fuel, the troops’ relatives said Thursday."

    Also on the AP:
    U.S. Probes if GIs Refused Iraq Mission
    http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=168712

    Really incredible stuff. Not to mention the Green Zone bombing yesterday, Falluja under attack again with clerics there declaring jihad, Poland reducing the number of its troops, and now 1,080 dead servicemen and women.

    This is a success?

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    I just read that. I know where Taji is, north of me, haven't been there yet but once this FOB closes we'll move up there. The road up there is well known for their IED's. But if their vehicles we're deadlined then you can't blame them for not going really. if it breaks down on the way up they're ****ed.

    Green zone bombing surprised me because it was a suicide bombing. Ramadan hadn't started yet. if those 2 guys waited a day they would of gotten their little paradise deal for dying in a jihad in the holy month or some BS.

    Sucks countries are reducing their troops. Getting spread pretty damn thin.

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    Party of "No." Tryska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy Ray
    I just read that. I know where Taji is, north of me, haven't been there yet but once this FOB closes we'll move up there. The road up there is well known for their IED's. But if their vehicles we're deadlined then you can't blame them for not going really. if it breaks down on the way up they're ****ed.

    Green zone bombing surprised me because it was a suicide bombing. Ramadan hadn't started yet. if those 2 guys waited a day they would of gotten their little paradise deal for dying in a jihad in the holy month or some BS.

    Sucks countries are reducing their troops. Getting spread pretty damn thin.

    you over there right now, then Jeremy?
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    Wannabebig New Member HahnB's Avatar
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    As far the 1000 dead-death and war go hand in hand. Soldiers are going to die, it's inevitable. I don't understand why it's such a suprise to people that we have lost soldiers during a time of war. You can argue that the cause of war is unjust(they shouldn't have been there in the first place), but you can't argue the fact that people shouldn't die in war-that's not realistic.

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    Senior Member shootermcgavin7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MixmasterNash
    Really incredible stuff.
    Putting aside the fact that we already have multiple posts on the war, I don't think it is "really incredible stuff" to find 17 guys who don't want to be there. One can find a lot more that take the opposite view.

    Quote Originally Posted by MixmasterNash
    Not to mention the Green Zone bombing yesterday, Falluja under attack again with clerics there declaring jihad

    The clerics in Fallujia have not declared a jihad. Perhaps you shoudl recheck your facts.

    And al-Zarqawi has been hunted for months, and any whackjob can drive a suicide bomb anywhere and kill 7 people.

    I'm certainly not claiming that Iraq is going well right now, but stretching facts to make it seem worse than it is hardly helps the situation.

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    Go Heels! MixmasterNash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy Ray
    Sucks countries are reducing their troops. Getting spread pretty damn thin.
    Yeah, I think we really to get more troops in to fix stuff, right, and stop restraining the marines from kicking the crap out of insurgents, or else we need to totally withdraw to defensible bases in the desert. The status quo sucks.

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    Senior Member shootermcgavin7's Avatar
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    Oh, and Poland isn't withdrawing troops until after Iraqi elections.

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    Go Heels! MixmasterNash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HahnB
    As far the 1000 dead-death and war go hand in hand. Soldiers are going to die, it's inevitable.
    No, that they are dead is neither surprising nor unexpected. It's a painful statistic and a horrible individual reality that shows how poorly run the war has been. The incompetence of the administration at fighting this war has been astounding. They've overruled commanders on the ground so many times.

    Quote Originally Posted by shootermcgavin7
    The clerics in Fallujia have not declared a jihad. Perhaps you shoudl recheck your facts.
    Oh sorry, in my radical hyperbole, I may have misstated that. They are declaring jihad right now if we don't roll over and puss out. Sounds like a winner to me!

    From the AP:
    "In a statement read at sermons in mosques in Baghdad and elsewhere, Fallujah's clerics called for civil disobedience across Iraq if the Americans try to overrun the insurgent bastion. And if that doesn't halt an offensive, the clerics said they would proclaim a jihad, or holy war, against multinational forces ``as well as those collaborating with them.''"

    Sounds rosy.

    Stupid crap like sending in the "Fallujah Brigade" instead of American soldiers to do it right, not allowing soldiers to carry loaded weapons in the green zone, etc. is really really dumb.

    You may think I'm some liberal pacifist. Wrong. I fully support blowing the crap out of the entire middle east, basically. I just think we could do it in far more competant ways, without so many dead Americans and wasted tax dollars.

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    Senior Member shootermcgavin7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MixmasterNash
    Oh sorry, in my radical hyperbole, I may have misstated that. They are declaring jihad right now if we don't roll over and puss out. Sounds like a winner to me!

    From the AP:
    "In a statement read at sermons in mosques in Baghdad and elsewhere, Fallujah's clerics called for civil disobedience across Iraq if the Americans try to overrun the insurgent bastion. And if that doesn't halt an offensive, the clerics said they would proclaim a jihad, or holy war, against multinational forces ``as well as those collaborating with them.''"

    And they'll have a great time declaring jihad while they're bottled up in Fajullah with bombs falling on their heads. Being that they've repeatedly declared jihad since we invaded Iraq, I'm sure that this will do TONS of damage.

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    Go Heels! MixmasterNash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shootermcgavin7
    And they'll have a great time declaring jihad while they're bottled up in Fajullah with bombs falling on their heads. Being that they've repeatedly declared jihad since we invaded Iraq, I'm sure that this will do TONS of damage.
    Is our goal to piss off Iraqi clerics? If so, then were having fantastic success. However, and correct me if I'm wrong, I thought we were supposed to bring stability to Iraq and allow for democratic elections?

    Do yout think Rumsfeld is right? That elections held in 2/3 or 3/4 of the country are "good enough"? Neither Powell nor Rice think so. However, Rumsfeld may hold the most realisticview at this point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tryska
    you over there right now, then Jeremy?
    In Baghdad. As far as living conditions it's not too bad. In concrete buildings and as you can see we got local companies to set us up with internet. Lot of people seem surprised we have free time. I'm PSYOP and we go out once or twice a day but usually aren't out for more then 6 hrs a day. rest of the day is general stuff and fighting boredom.

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    Go Heels! MixmasterNash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy Ray
    In Baghdad. As far as living conditions it's not too bad. In concrete buildings and as you can see we got local companies to set us up with internet. Lot of people seem surprised we have free time. I'm PSYOP and we go out once or twice a day but usually aren't out for more then 6 hrs a day. rest of the day is general stuff and fighting boredom.
    They had an awesome pic in the WashintonPost yesterday about Marines at an FOB bench pressing with a huge ass pipe. I imagine your digs are a bit nicer, I hope.


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    Senior Member shootermcgavin7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MixmasterNash
    Is our goal to piss off Iraqi clerics? If so, then were having fantastic success. However, and correct me if I'm wrong, I thought we were supposed to bring stability to Iraq and allow for democratic elections?

    Do yout think Rumsfeld is right? That elections held in 2/3 or 3/4 of the country are "good enough"? Neither Powell nor Rice think so. However, Rumsfeld may hold the most realisticview at this point.

    Let me re-iterate. The clerics have been alternatively threatening and declaring jihad for the last 24 months. This will neither help NOR hinder success in Iraq. Also, if you direct your attention to a map, almost the entire country except for the "Sunni Triangle" is relatively stable.

    I hold the personal view that elections need the entire country to be seen a valid. However, they have been set for January, and delaying them at this point would cause even more problems than have been seen currently. The best case scenario is to attempt to stabilize the Sunni Triangle as best we can.

    So, tell me Mix, will the Sunni Triangle be more stable if:

    A) We leave al-Zarqawi alone, and free to perform more attacks because clerics in Fajullah are threatening to do the same things they've been doing for the past 2 years or

    B) We attempt bomb the insurgency until the civilians force them to give up, which APPEARS to have had at least some success against people like al-Sadr. If you'll notice, while most Iraqis in the Sunni triangle despise the American troops, they despise the insurgents just as much because they realize they are hindering the rebuilding process.

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    I need to go to our gym more. usually in my building on standby and I don't like walking around at night because I'll stub my toe on those stupid bradley tracks laying around.

    We got a few squat racks and benches. some bicycles, lat machine, and curl station. lack middle ranged weights in dumb bells.

    Laundry service here is decent too, one day return usually. need to take mine up there again.

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    Go Heels! MixmasterNash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shootermcgavin7
    B) We attempt bomb the insurgency until the civilians force them to give up, which APPEARS to have had at least some success against people like al-Sadr. If you'll notice, while most Iraqis in the Sunni triangle despise the American troops, they despise the insurgents just as much because they realize they are hindering the rebuilding process.
    Yes. Why has it taken half a year to figure this out? I'll tell you why. The Whitehouse refused to allow the military to do it. They pulled the marines out when they were on the brink of success and sent in a CIA-trained brigade led by former Republican Guard generals. The Fallujah Brigade promptly gave away all of their weapons and vehicles to the insurgents, and disappeared.

    The civilian leadership is incompetant! I don't blame the military nearly as much as I do the neocons at the Pentagon and White House.

    In other news:
    Auditors Can't Account for Iraq Spent Funds
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2004Oct15.html

    Iraq N-Sites Were Stripped Methodically (ed: After the invasion!!!)
    http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...uclear_iraq_dc

  17. #17
    Party of "No." Tryska's Avatar
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    i think it's really cool that you can and are posting from baghdad, jeremy! take care of yourself, and even though i don't agree with this war, thanks for your efforts.
    Last edited by Tryska; 10-15-2004 at 01:46 PM.
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    Senior Member shootermcgavin7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MixmasterNash
    Yes. Why has it taken half a year to figure this out? I'll tell you why. The Whitehouse refused to allow the military to do it. They pulled the marines out when they were on the brink of success and sent in a CIA-trained brigade led by former Republican Guard generals. The Fallujah Brigade promptly gave away all of their weapons and vehicles to the insurgents, and disappeared.
    Because for every one of you saying that the military isn't allowed to do your job, there's someone else saying complaining that they shouldn't be doing it. It's the same thing that happened in the Balkans.

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    el imposible ectx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MixmasterNash
    Oh sorry, in my radical hyperbole....
    I think "radical hyperbolist" should be your new title.


    Jeremy Ray...you try running with the Baghdad hash house harriers? Crazy group.
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    Go Heels! MixmasterNash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shootermcgavin7
    Because for every one of you saying that the military isn't allowed to do your job, there's someone else saying complaining that they shouldn't be doing it. It's the same thing that happened in the Balkans.
    I agree, but in this case, it ain't the liberal peaceniks who are holding the military back. It's the White House.

    In any case, stay safe, Jeremy.

  21. #21
    Senior Member shootermcgavin7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MixmasterNash
    I agree, but in this case, it ain't the liberal peaceniks who are holding the military back. It's the White House.

    We didn't have a "liberal peacenik" in the White House during the 1990's, either.

  22. #22
    Party of "No." Tryska's Avatar
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    no we didn't.
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    Let the Marines do what they do best, fight.

    Hey, Jeremy Ray thanks for serving and kick *ss and stay safe.
    Last edited by beastin v6; 10-15-2004 at 03:18 PM.

  24. #24
    is numero uno Saint Patrick's Avatar
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    I'd disobey orders for a suicide mission too.

    Court Martial & Dishonorable Disgarge, or Death? hmmmmm.....
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    Well being a soldier myself, I probably would not disobey an order to go through with a convoy without armed escort. Granted we are those escorts so we would not have any problems, but still. During the second push for Baghdad, the 3rd ID had unarmomred hemets running through a gauntlet of small-arms fire, RPG's and IED's to resupply their soldiers, and none of those soldiers in those convoys disobeyed any orders to continue mission. Vehicles are never truly running 100%, but spare parts and spare vehicles arn't exactly something you can get whenever you want it, so sometimes you have to improvise and just move out. They are soldiers, and should understand that death is part of the game we play, it could be around the next corner, could be that piece of junk lying on the side of the road, could be anywhere, but we have to look it in the eye and just continue mission sometimes.
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