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Thread: Discuss the US Presidential Election Here

  1. #51
    Party of "No." Tryska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SalahG
    No offense Gyno, than why don't you move to Canada? I mean if it is so bad here for you, than move on.


    and let the weakest-minded of the bunch have the best country in the world?


    no thanks.
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  2. #52
    Party of "No." Tryska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SalahG
    Tryska, come on now, you really think I don't know what Zakat is? It's charity lady, and yes we give it. It doesn't mean that we shouldn't strive to be the best we can be. Islam economy=Capitolism=Self Reliance. Thus, we give charity to the very poor, but it is OUR choice to do so. We take it upon ourselves to do so, we are not getting it sucked out of our paychecks by force.

    as long as it's okay with you that people in your country are poor and struggling, you do not uphold the pillar.


    sorry.
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  3. #53
    Wannabe a Beast BigNic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SalahG
    Tryska, come on now, you really think I don't know what Zakat is? It's charity lady, and yes we give it. It doesn't mean that we shouldn't strive to be the best we can be. Islam economy=Capitolism=Self Reliance. Thus, we give charity to the very poor, but it is OUR choice to do so. We take it upon ourselves to do so, we are not getting it sucked out of our paychecks by force.
    i agree
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  4. #54
    Banned SalahG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tryska
    No - WRONG. and READING is FUNDAMENTAL. I don't think AMERICA is stupid. I think this current crop of AMERICANS is. So get it right.

    As for trying out other countries, you know not what you speak of.
    If you say the majority of americans are stupid, than America as a whole is stupid! That's what you said.

    I do know what I speak of those countries, and you should try one out, India, a true socialist society.

  5. #55
    Banned SalahG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tryska
    as long as it's okay with you that people in your country are poor and struggling, you do not uphold the pillar.


    sorry.
    It's ok with me, I will try and help them out. That is my part in Zakat. You DON'T know more about my religion than I do, sorry. If you are poor in the USA, 99.99999% of the time it's your own damn fault. Sorry, that is just the way it is.

  6. #56
    aka Boobalowski raniali's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by txterry
    No funding for stem cell research, gay issues, cyberspace freedom, Patriot Act and a few others concern me.

    actually stem cell research was approved in CA.
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  7. #57
    putting in work Roark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minotaur
    Yes, democracy = rule of the majority over the minority = tyranny.
    as opposed to what?

  8. #58
    Party of "No." Tryska's Avatar
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    America, is a Republic found on the grand experiment of Representative Democracy. It's Constitution is unlike any other country in the world, and was set up in a brilliant manner.


    The American people, chose, yesterday to trash EVERYTHING that America stands for, and risk destroying the grand experiment.


    the sad part is, they didn't think twice about it, and apparently don't really care. so yes. Americans are stupid.
    Last edited by Tryska; 11-03-2004 at 11:10 AM.
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  9. #59
    Banned SalahG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tryska
    and let the weakest-minded of the bunch have the best country in the world?


    no thanks.
    Weakest minded to you=Religious capitolists. So basically, anyone who you don't agree with is weak minded.

  10. #60
    Banned SalahG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tryska
    America, is a Republic found on the grand experiment of Representative Democracy. It's Constitution is unlike any other o****ry in the worlds, and was set up in a brilliant manner.


    The American people, chose, yesterday to trash EVERYTHING that America stands for, and risk destroying the grand experiment.


    the sad part is, they didn't think twice about it, and apparently don't really care. so yes. Americans are stupid.
    Yup, so why don't you move before it's too late. Lot's of land in Canada and Mexico for sale.

  11. #61
    Party of "No." Tryska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SalahG
    Weakest minded to you=Religious capitolists. So basically, anyone who you don't agree with is weak minded.

    anyone who willingly trashed this country's founding principles, denying they are in danger, and disregarding all data to the contrary. yes, weak-minded.
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  12. #62
    Professional hobbit Focused70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by txterry
    Minotuar: What other solution is there but democracy. I have yet to see a better system at work... and the greeks invented it over 2000 years ago.
    Just an observation:

    Socrates asks permission to backtrack a little at the opening of Book VIII in order to analyze the forms of corrupt governments. This way they can also look at the individuals inhabiting them, thus cutting away the grist so that only the meat, the just man, may remain. There are four principle defective forms: timocracy, oligarchy, democracy, and tyranny. Aristocracy's (the republic) degeneration into timocracy occurs as a kind of hypothetical fluke, an error in population control. The timocracy is a government based primarily on honor not justice, and the timocratic man is torn between his philosophical ancestors and new, ingratiating contemporaries who flatter his vanity. Oligarchy arises when wealth becomes the standard. The State separates into two distinct and distant classes‹rich and poor. And the timocrat embodies the old, honorable ways in competition with avarice. After a revolution in which the rulers are overthrown by the discontented poor, democracy, the most liberal and various State appears. The democratic representative is ruled by appetites that hold sway well above reason or honor. The final dissolution into the worst and most wicked form of government, tyranny, is the result of democracy's supposed virtue: freedom. But is in excess and, after another revolution, a new ruler, the tyrant ascends. He has no unlimited freedom and thus no morals. He feels off the State, taxes his people, protects himself with mercenaries, and destroys any threat to this power. The book's most miserable character, the tyrant is antithetical to the guardian; he is injustice incarnate.
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  13. #63
    Banned SalahG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tryska
    anyone who willingly trashed this country's founding principles, denying they are in danger, and disregarding all data to the contrary. yes, weak-minded.
    No one is in endanger. Paranoia will destroy ya.

  14. #64
    putting in work Roark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tryska
    Because Americans have fully, and wholeheartedly chosen to vote against their own best interests, in the name of some wedge issues given to them as "huge serious problems" by the RNC, by the Christian Fundamentalists, and by the Media.


    Anyone who will vote to shoot themselves in the ass, is stupid. or a masochist. you choose.

    you just don't get it imo

    i don't want free healthcare, i don't want government making sure baby is okay

    you want big brother to coddle you and make sure it's going to be alright?

    dems want all the freedom, but they want governmennt to pay the tab, kind of like spoiled kids.

    on the other hand, the reps want you to pay your bills, but they want to dictate your personal freeedoms.

    i vote libertarian. i just want the government to stay out of my wallet and stay out of my life.
    Last edited by excokehead; 11-03-2004 at 11:14 AM.

  15. #65
    Senior Member Manveet's Avatar
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    "It is often said, mainly by the "no-contests", that although there is no positive evidence for the existence of God, nor is there evidence against his existence. So it is best to keep an open mind and be agnostic. At first sight that seems an unassailable position, at least in the weak sense of Pascal's wager. But on second thought it seems a cop-out, because the same could be said of Father Christmas and tooth fairies. There may be fairies at the bottom of the garden. There is no evidence for it, but you can't prove that there aren't any, so shouldn't we be agnostic with respect to fairies?"

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    "Out of all of the sects in the world, we notice an uncanny coincidence: the overwhelming majority just happen to choose the one that their parents belong to. Not the sect that has the best evidence in its favour, the best miracles, the best moral code, the best cathedral, the best stained glass, the best music: when it comes to choosing from the smorgasbord of available religions, their potential virtues seem to count for nothing, compared to the matter of heredity. This is an unmistakable fact; nobody could seriously deny it. Yet people with full knowledge of the arbitrary nature of this heredity, somehow manage to go on believing in their religion, often with such fanaticism that they are prepared to murder people who follow a different one."


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  16. #66
    Party of "No." Tryska's Avatar
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    hmm....guess we're on track to Timocracy next, eh?
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  17. #67
    My monkey txterry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raniali
    actually stem cell research was approved in CA.
    Not federally Raniali. But hopefully its a matter of time... If it happens we have Ronald Regans son and Christopher Reeves to thank.
    Last edited by txterry; 11-03-2004 at 11:15 AM.
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  18. #68
    Hulking bulking bruiser Minotaur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by txterry
    Minotuar: What other solution is there but democracy. I have yet to see a better system at work... and the greeks invented it over 2000 years ago.
    You can't have 'democracy' in a country the size of the US. This is a representative republic. Big difference. Democracy is a town council or school board meeting, deciding on the public good. The majority voting to ban gay marriage is not democracy, as it has nothing to do with the common good... it is tyranny, the majority imposing its will and belief on a minority who does the majority no harm.

  19. #69
    Senior Member Manveet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by excokehead
    i vote libertarian. i just want the government to stay out of my wallet and stay out of my life.
    ANARCHIST!

    "It is often said, mainly by the "no-contests", that although there is no positive evidence for the existence of God, nor is there evidence against his existence. So it is best to keep an open mind and be agnostic. At first sight that seems an unassailable position, at least in the weak sense of Pascal's wager. But on second thought it seems a cop-out, because the same could be said of Father Christmas and tooth fairies. There may be fairies at the bottom of the garden. There is no evidence for it, but you can't prove that there aren't any, so shouldn't we be agnostic with respect to fairies?"

    Richard Dawkins


    "Out of all of the sects in the world, we notice an uncanny coincidence: the overwhelming majority just happen to choose the one that their parents belong to. Not the sect that has the best evidence in its favour, the best miracles, the best moral code, the best cathedral, the best stained glass, the best music: when it comes to choosing from the smorgasbord of available religions, their potential virtues seem to count for nothing, compared to the matter of heredity. This is an unmistakable fact; nobody could seriously deny it. Yet people with full knowledge of the arbitrary nature of this heredity, somehow manage to go on believing in their religion, often with such fanaticism that they are prepared to murder people who follow a different one."


    Richard Dawkins


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  20. #70
    Party of "No." Tryska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by excokehead
    you just don't get it imo

    i don't want free healthcare, i don't want government making sure baby is okay

    you want big brother to coddle you and make sure it's going to be alright?

    dems want all the freedom, but they want governmennt to pay the tab, kind of like spoiled kids.

    on the other hand, the reps want you to pay your bills, but they want to dictate your personal freeedoms.

    i vote libertarian. i just want the government to stay out of my wallet and stay out of my life.

    if this is what you believe i'm for, then you don't get me, nor do you understand what liberalism is.
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  21. #71
    Down with the Sickness
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    What does islam or muslim countries or the muslim religion have to do with THE U.S.of A.. What you just stated has opened my eyes as to your motives: First it sounds like you know quite a bit about the muslim religion (nothing wrong with that) but where i find the problem is where you don't like christian beliefs being interjected in to our society, but yet you want to press the issue on the muslim religion. First you go off about church and state are to be separated, then you contridicte yourself by talking about the Kerry campaign loosing and how it goes against your beliefs (religious based from what i read) and how america is stupid because of the fact that the majority voted against what you fought so hard for. Just because people don't agree with does not make them stupid, and frankly you would be alot more credible if you accept the facts and support whoever is the commander and chief is. This is a great country, a great democracy and i wouldn't have it any other way be it Bush or Kerry in office.
    Last edited by sublime99; 11-03-2004 at 11:19 AM.

  22. #72
    Party of "No." Tryska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SalahG
    No one is in endanger. Paranoia will destroy ya.


    not people. Our Founding principles. Please try to comprehend what you read.
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  23. #73
    Hulking bulking bruiser Minotaur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SalahG
    Yeah, George W. Bush is the cause of terrorism.
    I never said George Bush was the cause of terrorism. Why do people insist on reading what's not there?

  24. #74
    Banned SalahG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tryska
    hmm....guess we're on track to Timocracy next, eh?
    Start being successful, and you will start being a republican. Start being unsuccessful, and start being a democrat.

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  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by SalahG
    You can't say that someone has chosen to vote against their own interests. Take me for instance, I'm heading to college for free, my parents are generally wealthy, and we are social conservatives. My interests would suit lower taxes, and socially conservative government. I don't need welfare, health care benefits, or help to pay for college. You know what's great about it all, me and my family all benefit because we worked hard, and got ahead in the world, instead of punishing my family by raising taxes. You don't like it? Take capitolism for all it's worth and have some personal responsibility and be successful.
    It seems to be a trend - social conservatives supporting the primary interest of themselves, not the nation as a whole. I make plenty of money, more than I need to live comfortably. I'm in a higher tax bracket than I was a few years back when I made less, and that's OK with me. I'm putting lots of money away for retirement, and if the day comes when they raise my taxes to help supply people with health care, I'm OK with that too. Maybe one needs to experience life on the other side first-hand to appreciate certain things. I have money now, but I come from a family that struggled financially, so I lived that battle.
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