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  1. #1
    Baby Seal Clubber ElPietro's Avatar
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    Discuss the US Presidential Election Here

    But be very careful. If you think you can't stay calm, don't even bother reading anymore posts. If you have something inflammatory to say don't. If you have something informative, nice, not directed as an attack, not calling someone a name or telling them they were right or wrong, the feel free.

    Post in this thread at your own risk and know that if you cross the line there will be consequences.

    Discuss.

  2. #2
    Go Heels! MixmasterNash's Avatar
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    I'll go off topic already and discuss another issue on the ballots in a number of states, though closely related to the presidential election.

    It's really, really sad how biggoted most of this country is about homosexuals. Karl Rove is smart as hell, and he knew that gays were the issue that would drive Bush supporters to vote. So, Bush supporters, take solace in the fact that hatred of gays and lesbians is a strong reason Bush may/will/someday win.

    And there is no doubt that it is fundamentally hatred. A deep, fearful hatred of these abominations that will destroy American families, molest children, and have sex with animals.

  3. #3
    Hulking bulking bruiser Minotaur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MixmasterNash
    I'll go off topic already and discuss another issue on the ballots in a number of states, though closely related to the presidential election.

    It's really, really sad how biggoted most of this country is about homosexuals. Karl Rove is smart as hell, and he knew that gays were the issue that would drive Bush supporters to vote. So, Bush supporters, take solace in the fact that hatred of gays and lesbians is a strong reason Bush may/will/someday win.

    And there is no doubt that it is fundamentally hatred. A deep, fearful hatred of these abominations that will destroy American families, molest children, and have sex with animals.
    This is exactly the tactic Hitler used in uniting Germany. He used a scapegoat issue to divert attention from the real issues.

  4. #4
    Go Heels! MixmasterNash's Avatar
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    Here's another sort-of-off-topic post:
    The media has basically completely failed us as a nation. Whether you're left or right, I think we can all agree that the media sucks.

    The Daily Show remains a shining beacon of hope, however. Their show last night was hillarious.

  5. #5
    Journalist galileo's Avatar
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    Not to comment on the accuracy of exit polls, but the data that was presented told a very interesting story about what demographics vote a particular way...

  6. #6
    En botella whey! Max-Mex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by galileo
    Not to comment on the accuracy of exit polls, but the data that was presented told a very interesting story about what demographics vote a particular way...
    I agree Gal. It was so weird seeing Kerry take most of the east/west coast states (quite a few great lake states) and bush take the entire middle and south.
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  7. #7
    Party of "No." Tryska's Avatar
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    Well, all i can say is, the thing that blows my mind the most is how so many people were willing to vote against their own best interests. In essence, we Americans:


    Voted NO to equal right for all people

    Voted NO to being a respected leader of the free World.

    Voted NO to a clean environment where people can hunt and fish and not be poisoned by their catches.

    Voted NO to lower healthcare costs.

    Voted NO to a balanced budget.

    Voted NO to a minimum wage increase

    Voted NO to civil liberties.

    Voted NO to the Seperation of Church and State

    Voted NO to cheaper Higher Education

    Voted NO to a decrease in Global Terrorism



    this boggles my mind. i had no idea so much of America was more interested in ensuring other people don't have rights than protecting their own.

    But for all of you dubya supporters, this is on your heads.
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  8. #8
    As I Am Paul Stagg's Avatar
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    Voted NO to equal right for all people

    ** A Kerry vote was also a 'no' vote.

    Voted NO to being a respected leader of the free World.

    ** Ditto.

    Voted NO to a clean environment where people can hunt and fish and not be poisoned by their catches.

    ** There is a better way than that of the Left, but I'll concede the point.

    Voted NO to lower healthcare costs.

    ** How so? The costs to some individuals for service might have been reduced, but the overall costs most certainly increase, and quality of care decreases. REF: Canada.

    Voted NO to a balanced budget.

    ** Balanced via increased taxation in order to facilitate more income redistribution.

    Voted NO to a minimum wage increase

    ** Thank goodness.

    Voted NO to civil liberties.

    ** LOL. A vote for either certainly was a vote against Liberty.

    Voted NO to the Seperation of Church and State

    ** Interesting point, one I'll concede.

    Voted NO to cheaper Higher Education

    ** What business is it of the federal government to provide for Higher education? Did I miss an amendment to the Constitution?

    Voted NO to a decrease in Global Terrorism

    ** I think that's also a push. Althought the 'gobal test' rhetoric is scary stuff.

    As an aside - I'm reading through this thread now. As I weed out posts that are personal attacks, I expect it will end up closed. Anyone who wishes to discuss this further should take it to PMs if that happens, as we won't be opening another thread back up.

    Remember how fortunte we are to be allowed to vote at all, and determine our leaders without violence and bloodshed.
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  9. #9
    Wannabe a Beast BigNic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Stagg
    Voted NO to equal right for all people

    ** A Kerry vote was also a 'no' vote.

    Voted NO to being a respected leader of the free World.

    ** Ditto.

    Voted NO to a clean environment where people can hunt and fish and not be poisoned by their catches.

    ** There is a better way than that of the Left, but I'll concede the point.

    Voted NO to lower healthcare costs.

    ** How so? The costs to some individuals for service might have been reduced, but the overall costs most certainly increase, and quality of care decreases. REF: Canada.

    Voted NO to a balanced budget.

    ** Balanced via increased taxation in order to facilitate more income redistribution.

    Voted NO to a minimum wage increase

    ** Thank goodness.

    Voted NO to civil liberties.

    ** LOL. A vote for either certainly was a vote against Liberty.

    Voted NO to the Seperation of Church and State

    ** Interesting point, one I'll concede.

    Voted NO to cheaper Higher Education

    ** What business is it of the federal government to provide for Higher education? Did I miss an amendment to the Constitution?

    Voted NO to a decrease in Global Terrorism

    ** I think that's also a push. Althought the 'gobal test' rhetoric is scary stuff.

    As an aside - I'm reading through this thread now. As I weed out posts that are personal attacks, I expect it will end up closed. Anyone who wishes to discuss this further should take it to PMs if that happens, as we won't be opening another thread back up.

    Remember how fortunte we are to be allowed to vote at all, and determine our leaders without violence and bloodshed.
    very true
    Last edited by BigNic; 11-03-2004 at 01:35 PM.
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  10. #10
    Party of "No." Tryska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Stagg
    Voted NO to equal right for all people

    ** A Kerry vote was also a 'no' vote.
    ~~~Kerry was a No Amendment to the Constitution vote.

    Voted NO to being a respected leader of the free World.

    ** Ditto.
    ~~~Disagree....Kerry had a lot more foreing affairs negotitation under his belt than bush ever did. (other than with the Bin Laden family and various other Arab royalty that fund terrorists, anyway)

    Voted NO to a clean environment where people can hunt and fish and not be poisoned by their catches.

    ** There is a better way than that of the Left, but I'll concede the point.

    Voted NO to lower healthcare costs.

    ** How so? The costs to some individuals for service might have been reduced, but the overall costs most certainly increase, and quality of care decreases. REF: Canada.
    ~~~i disagree. I don't see how being able to buy-in to the Congressional Healthcare Plan either increases everyone else's costs, or decreases quality of care.

    Voted NO to a balanced budget.

    ** Balanced via increased taxation in order to facilitate more income redistribution.
    ~~~~and decreased spending.

    Voted NO to a minimum wage increase

    ** Thank goodness.
    ~~~~in your opinion. imo, the cost fo everything else has gone up and the minimum wage has stayed the same. there are more people looking for "handouts" now because they can't make it. That transfers to more stress on the rest of us.

    Voted NO to civil liberties.

    ** LOL. A vote for either certainly was a vote against Liberty.
    ~~~~and it's just gonna get worse, as opposed to better.

    Voted NO to the Seperation of Church and State

    ** Interesting point, one I'll concede.
    Voted NO to cheaper Higher Education

    ** What business is it of the federal government to provide for Higher education? Did I miss an amendment to the Constitution?
    ~~~~the bush tax cuts resulted in states taking on the burden for funding of other things. this has resulted in an increase in state tuitions, and less money for pell grants and hope scholarships and such.

    Voted NO to a decrease in Global Terrorism

    ** I think that's also a push. Althought the 'gobal test' rhetoric is scary stuff.
    ~~~~~then you misunderstood what "global test" means. perhaps "sniff test" would have been better language.
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  11. #11
    goomba wannabe
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tryska
    Well, all i can say is, the thing that blows my mind the most is how so many people were willing to vote against their own best interests. In essence, we Americans:


    Voted NO to equal right for all people

    Voted NO to being a respected leader of the free World.

    Voted NO to a clean environment where people can hunt and fish and not be poisoned by their catches.

    Voted NO to lower healthcare costs.

    Voted NO to a balanced budget.

    Voted NO to a minimum wage increase

    Voted NO to civil liberties.

    Voted NO to the Seperation of Church and State

    Voted NO to cheaper Higher Education

    Voted NO to a decrease in Global Terrorism



    this boggles my mind. i had no idea so much of America was more interested in ensuring other people don't have rights than protecting their own.

    But for all of you dubya supporters, this is on your heads.

    thank you trys...

    when the draft is issued in the future under Bush's administration, only then people will see the whole picture

  12. #12
    Journalist galileo's Avatar
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    If you're against Bush, you're against God.

  13. #13
    Journalist galileo's Avatar
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    Kerry Conceded - http://www.cnn.com/

  14. #14
    Party of "No." Tryska's Avatar
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    yup.

    the Ground Game Starts Now.
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  15. #15
    putting in work Roark's Avatar
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    what can you say

    the people have spoken

    it's democracy at work.

    personally, i'm glad that more people decided they'd like to work for theirs than have the government hand it to them.

    and props to kerry for not turning the race into another 2000.

    and big props to michale badnarik for running a great campaign for the libertarian party.

  16. #16
    Hulking bulking bruiser Minotaur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by excokehead
    what can you say

    the people have spoken

    it's democracy at work.
    Yes, democracy = rule of the majority over the minority = tyranny.

  17. #17
    putting in work Roark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minotaur
    Yes, democracy = rule of the majority over the minority = tyranny.
    as opposed to what?

  18. #18
    Journalist galileo's Avatar
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    I hope there's a draft so I can go dance on a ****ing landmine.

  19. #19
    Party of "No." Tryska's Avatar
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    i certainly hope you don't get your wish, but i think that's tantamount to pissing in the wind.
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  20. #20
    Senior Member meltedtime's Avatar
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    60% voter turnout = 31% support for bush. What a shame so many people choose not to vote.
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  21. #21
    Senior Member meltedtime's Avatar
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    Tryska, your post reminded me of an email I was sent recently:


    Things you have to believe to be a Republican today:

    Saddam was a good guy when Reagan armed him, a bad guy when Bush's daddy made war on him, a good guy when Cheney did business with him and a bad guy when Bush needed a "we can't find Bin Laden" diversion.

    Trade with Cuba is wrong because the country is communist, but trade with China and Vietnam is vital to a spirit of international harmony.

    The United States should get out of the United Nations, and our highest national priority is enforcing U.N. resolutions against Iraq.

    A woman can't be trusted with decisions about her own body, but
    multi-national corporations can make decisions affecting all mankind without regulation.

    Jesus loves you, and shares your hatred of homosexuals and Hillary Clinton.

    The best way to improve military morale is to praise the troops in speeches while slashing veterans' benefits and combat pay.

    If condoms are kept out of schools, adolescents won't have sex.

    A good way to fight terrorism is to belittle our long-time allies, then demand their cooperation and money.

    Providing health care to all Iraqis is sound policy. Providing health care to all Americans is socialism.

    HMOs and insurance companies have the best interests of the public at heart.

    Global warming and tobacco's link to cancer are junk science, but creationism should be taught in schools.

    A president lying about an extramarital affair is an impeachable offense. A president lying to enlist support for a war in which thousands die is solid defense policy.

    Government should limit itself to the powers named in the Constitution, which include banning gay marriages and censoring the Internet.

    The public has a right to know about Hillary's cattle trades, but George Bush's driving record is none of our business.

    Being a drug addict is a moral failing and a crime, unless you're a conservative radio host. Then it's an illness, and you need our prayers for your recovery.

    You support states' rights, which means Attorney General John Ashcroft can tell states what local voter initiatives they have the right to adopt.

    What Bill Clinton did in the 1960s is of vital national interest, but what Bush did in the '80s is irrelevant.

    Feel free to pass this on. If you don't send it to at least 10 other people, we're likely to be stuck with Bush for 4 more years.
    Opinions are like ***holes, everybody has one.

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  22. #22
    Senior Member shootermcgavin7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meltedtime
    Things you have to believe to be a Republican today:

    Saddam was a good guy when Reagan armed him, a bad guy when Bush's daddy made war on him, a good guy when Cheney did business with him and a bad guy when Bush needed a "we can't find Bin Laden" diversion.

    Trade with Cuba is wrong because the country is communist, but trade with China and Vietnam is vital to a spirit of international harmony.

    The United States should get out of the United Nations, and our highest national priority is enforcing U.N. resolutions against Iraq.

    A woman can't be trusted with decisions about her own body, but
    multi-national corporations can make decisions affecting all mankind without regulation.

    Jesus loves you, and shares your hatred of homosexuals and Hillary Clinton.

    The best way to improve military morale is to praise the troops in speeches while slashing veterans' benefits and combat pay.

    If condoms are kept out of schools, adolescents won't have sex.

    A good way to fight terrorism is to belittle our long-time allies, then demand their cooperation and money.

    Providing health care to all Iraqis is sound policy. Providing health care to all Americans is socialism.

    HMOs and insurance companies have the best interests of the public at heart.

    Global warming and tobacco's link to cancer are junk science, but creationism should be taught in schools.

    A president lying about an extramarital affair is an impeachable offense. A president lying to enlist support for a war in which thousands die is solid defense policy.

    Government should limit itself to the powers named in the Constitution, which include banning gay marriages and censoring the Internet.

    The public has a right to know about Hillary's cattle trades, but George Bush's driving record is none of our business.

    Being a drug addict is a moral failing and a crime, unless you're a conservative radio host. Then it's an illness, and you need our prayers for your recovery.

    You support states' rights, which means Attorney General John Ashcroft can tell states what local voter initiatives they have the right to adopt.

    What Bill Clinton did in the 1960s is of vital national interest, but what Bush did in the '80s is irrelevant.

    Feel free to pass this on. If you don't send it to at least 10 other people, we're likely to be stuck with Bush for 4 more years.


    Have you seen the flip side of this? It is almost as steriotypical and incorrect as the one you just posted:

    The AIDS virus is spread by a lack of funding.

    Trial lawyers are selfless heroes and that doctors are overpaid.

    Global temperatures are affected more by a suburban soccer mom driving an SUV than by documented, cyclical variations in the brightness and intensity of the sun.

    Guns in the hands of law-abiding Americans are more of a threat than nuclear, chemical and biological weapons in the hands of Saddam Hussein.

    Businesses create oppression and government creates prosperity.

    Self-esteem is more important than doing anything to earn it.

    There was no art before federal funding.

    The NRA is a bad organization because it stands up for certain parts of the Constitution, but the ACLU is a good organization because it stands up for certain parts of the Constitution.

    Standardized tests are racist, but racial quotas are not.

    ANY change in the weather is proof of global warming.

    National wealth is determine by what we consume, not by what we produce.

    The only wars in which America should become involved are those in which our national security is not at risk.

    It is possible to tax the country into prosperity.

    America can have a strong military without spending money on it.

    The way to improve public schools is to give more money and power to the very people who have misused that power and money to destroy the public schools.

    Hunters and fishermen do not care about the environment but pasty-faced activists that rarely venture out-of-doors do.

    A bureaucrat living in Washington, D.C. can make better decisions about how to spend the money that you earn than you can.

    Being a movie or television star qualifies you to speak out on public policy.

    Hillary Clinton is a wonderful example for young women of feminine independence even though she has never accomplished anything worthwhile without riding on the coattails of her husband.

    Bush's toppling the Saddam regime was a "diversion," but Clinton's lobbing a couple of cruise missiles at Iraq in the thick of the Lewinsky sex scandal was "sending a message."

    A handful of religious whackos living in rural Texas are more of a threat to public safety than Islamic terrorists who wish to plant bombs in major American cities.

    Passing new laws are a much better way to curb crime than enforcing the existing ones.

    Tax cuts are for people who don't actually pay income taxes.






    Obviously both of these are wrong, but its still entertaining to pick on the extremist whackos on both sides.

  23. #23
    Baby Seal Clubber ElPietro's Avatar
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    Does anyone have any info or link to how Badnarik did? I know it probably wasn't anything too significant, but I'm curious how the libertarian party has progressed from the past election.
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  24. #24
    Journalist galileo's Avatar
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    http://www.sfgate.com/election/2004/...d_states.shtml

    George W. Bush 58,607,421 51.0 %
    John F. Kerry 55,076,962 47.9 %
    Ralph Nader 489,735 0.4 %
    Michael Badnarik 391,282 0.3 %

  25. #25
    The Big Wang
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    LP did very well yay! and it was significant.. every vote counts.
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