The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
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    mass leg builders without using lower back?

    Well today blew the last straw. During Deep squats with 185lbs i did 7 reps and felt fine and said ah what the hell and pushed for the 8th. Half way up I felt a spaz in my lower back and it HURT, so ii struggled to get the rest of it up while going **** **** **** cause my back hurt. I had to stand there for a min or 2 cause iit hurt and i had to wait for the pain to go down some. Im alot better at the moment but im afraid to wake up tmw and feel terrible! What i am getting at is that i need alternate leg excersizes to build em up. I was lookin at doing dumbell lunges but dontknow how much if any lower back is needed to do them. What are your guys suggestions. I dunno if i should attempt dead lifts anymore either.. EISH lower back sucks..... Are hyperextension the only thing i could do for a lower back now?

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  3. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlingMeter
    What i am getting at is that i need alternate leg excersizes to build em up
    NO. what you need is a doctor. I don't understand why you are such a hardhead

  4. #3
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    1. Dont have a job which = health insurance

    Im not gonna be paying money out my ass that I do not have and money I have to live off of until i cam find another job

  5. #4
    permanently bulking Titanium_Jim's Avatar
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    If you absolutely HAVE to work your legs, the easiest thing to do is grab dbs that total (together) a little more than 1/3 your body weight and go to some bleachers and walk up and down stairs (careful on the down part, it can be hard on your knees).
    "I would have had sex with a pornstar, slapped a bitch and stole someone's dog." - deeder
    "Ever heard the term "screwing like rabbits? There's a reason it came about, and it has nothing to do with putting up drywall." - mrelwooddowd
    "If you are looking for a workout that will make you sore, you need to reassess your priorities, and perhaps look for an S&M club in your area." - Paul Stagg
    "I do encourage that people laugh at the fact I've put ass creme on my face." - Rock Steady
    "I look like a condom full of walnuts." - Risk10k
    "...the mothers would hang out of the window to get a piece of my little peanut ass and my bronzelike skin." - Rock

  6. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlingMeter
    1. Dont have a job which = health insurance

    Im not gonna be paying money out my ass that I do not have and money I have to live off of until i cam find another job
    well then don't do anything that hurts your back anymore. Do you go to college? I know most schools offer health insurance for pretty cheap.

  7. #6
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    nope no college maybe next year lol. but as soon as i get a job and insurance to the doc i go, but by then it wont hurt so he prob wont do crap about it

  8. #7
    Go Heels! MixmasterNash's Avatar
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    Lunges, lunges, lunges.

    They are awesome leg builders, and shouldn't effect the lower back at all. You can use them to prefatigue your legs and then do squats. I did exactly that for a number of months. I reduced the weight I squatted by about 33% and eliminate lower back issues.

  9. #8
    Wannabe a Beast BigNic's Avatar
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    mix's idea sounds good
    Beer helped slow down my metabolism.... -ozzyman

  10. #9
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    ok ill stick to lunges, squats can wait like half a year lol i like to walk

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlingMeter
    Well today blew the last straw. During Deep squats with 185lbs i did 7 reps and felt fine and said ah what the hell and pushed for the 8th. Half way up I felt a spaz in my lower back and it HURT, so ii struggled to get the rest of it up while going **** **** **** cause my back hurt. I had to stand there for a min or 2 cause iit hurt and i had to wait for the pain to go down some. Im alot better at the moment but im afraid to wake up tmw and feel terrible! What i am getting at is that i need alternate leg excersizes to build em up. I was lookin at doing dumbell lunges but dontknow how much if any lower back is needed to do them. What are your guys suggestions. I dunno if i should attempt dead lifts anymore either.. EISH lower back sucks..... Are hyperextension the only thing i could do for a lower back now?
    What happened when you felt that pain is on that last rep you started to lean forward slightly and your lumbar spinal erectors came into the movement more than they should have. This often can be a problem when people squat. Thats why form is CRUCIAL in keeping injury at bay with any power exercise. (or any other for that matter). Most likely the pain will subside by your next leg day and there's no reason you shouldn't keep squatting at all. Squats are important for developing power, leg strength and leg mass. Keep them! Add lunges if you want, but keep the squats at the begining of your workout. Now, check your form. Make sure everything is perfect. Remember the FIRST part of your body to move in squats are your glutes, they move out. Your back should stay straight throughout the whole movement. What I tell people is to stick your chest out, this will bring your shoulders back and straighten your back and always look slightly upward. This will help a lot. Good luck.

    "Success is never behind you, it is always, always in front of you."

  12. #11
    Banned Jezmason's Avatar
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    I dont usually do squats anyway, i prefer the leg press, it seemed to add more mass to my legs. Try them placing your feet normally and close together

  13. #12
    Go Heels! MixmasterNash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderman
    What happened when you felt that pain is on that last rep you started to lean forward slightly and your lumbar spinal erectors came into the movement more than they should have. This often can be a problem when people squat. Thats why form is CRUCIAL in keeping injury at bay with any power exercise.
    First, I would say that there is a significant difference between regular muscle soreness and an acute muscle strain that the original poster should be aware of.

    I would add that, even with "perfect" form, I cannot squat, either olympic or PL style without my spinal erectors coming into play. This is related to two physiological limitations: poor ankle flexibility, and relatively long thighs, in my case. For example, I cannot squat to bottom without weight, without tipping over backwards, and I have to throw my arms out in front. (Aside: I can't do pistols WITHOUT weight held in front, but can WITH).

    I recognized this and added the lunges to prefatigue.

  14. #13
    Hmmmm..... Spiderman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MixmasterNash
    First, I would say that there is a significant difference between regular muscle soreness and an acute muscle strain that the original poster should be aware of.

    I would add that, even with "perfect" form, I cannot squat, either olympic or PL style without my spinal erectors coming into play. This is related to two physiological limitations: poor ankle flexibility, and relatively long thighs, in my case. For example, I cannot squat to bottom without weight, without tipping over backwards, and I have to throw my arms out in front. (Aside: I can't do pistols WITHOUT weight held in front, but can WITH).

    I recognized this and added the lunges to prefatigue.
    You're correct. There is a difference between regular muscle soreness and an acute muscle strain. I was speaking in general about lower back pain which can be a result of an acute strain. I didn't say however that the spinal erectors aren't recruited when squatting, they are a secondary muscle that is worked, they are not however the primary muscle that's doing the lifting, which is the point I was making. Now, the reason you can't squat to the bottom has a little to do with poor ankle flexibility, however the MAIN problem is poor hamstring and hip flexibility. The length of your legs has nothing to do with it. MANY people suffer from inflexible and tight hamstrings. Fix that problem and I'm sure your squating technique will improve.

    "Success is never behind you, it is always, always in front of you."

  15. #14
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    First off, hopefully that pain in your lower back isn't too serious....I've had that happen to me as well and thankfully (knock on wood) it's never been a problem.

    Second...if you're looking for an exercise that does not hit your your lower back as much, I can't disagree with leg presses or lunges (and extensions).

    Somebody suggested doing lunges first, then squats with a lower weight which will still stimulate your muscles for growth and that's a good idea. As always, watch your form. I agree with what alot of these guys said with regards to keeping squats in your routine somewhere. They not only build leg mass but mass all over your body.

    However, something you may want to consider once your back is up to snuff is strengthening your lower back so it's not an issue when you start doing squats. If your working out and building mass on your lower and upper body but your lower back is 'weak', you could find you have back problems later on down the road.

    Anyways...just my humble 2 cents.
    Good luck!

  16. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderman
    You're correct. There is a difference between regular muscle soreness and an acute muscle strain. I was speaking in general about lower back pain which can be a result of an acute strain. I didn't say however that the spinal erectors aren't recruited when squatting, they are a secondary muscle that is worked, they are not however the primary muscle that's doing the lifting, which is the point I was making. Now, the reason you can't squat to the bottom has a little to do with poor ankle flexibility, however the MAIN problem is poor hamstring and hip flexibility. The length of your legs has nothing to do with it. MANY people suffer from inflexible and tight hamstrings. Fix that problem and I'm sure your squating technique will improve.
    I meant to imply that my squats used to involve spinal erectors as a primary mover!

    I think my my squatting limitations have a lot to do with my ankles and and bone lengths. My hamstring flexibility is average, and perhaps limits me a bit. However, I can sit deep down in the hole just fine, as long as I have some weight on my shoulders. Otherwise, as I said, I just tip over backwards. Looking at a lot of squatting videos, I simply don't have the ankle break that most do in a narrow stance squat.

    As for a PL style, I haven't done those in a while, but ankle flexibility definately doesn't hinder me as my shins remain upright. My hips are a definate bottleneck here, but I'm not so concerned with PL style anymore.

  17. #16
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    I think the main problem with squats is i cant really find a way to where i can go paralell. Its like impossible for me, i have tried wide and close stance, maybe im just ******ed. And i had my brother look on the side and he said when i go up my knees go past my feet and theres no way i see in stopping that. It all feels "unnatural" to me.

    As with leg presses i cant. I can do very light and be ok but once i start adding the lbs to it again my lower back starts to hurt. I know one of the main problem is my lower back and i only know of ONE direct hit excersize that works it. When i hurt it during squats it hurt like hell, and i immedianlty went over and did a few weight less reps on the hyper extension peice. Didnt feel anypain going up, but felt a light pain going down, but it was bearable. So I dont know if I should take a few months off of squats and leg presses and just rip the crap outta the lower back and learn to become real flexiable or what. I would really hate for this to happen every week.

    Lunges seem to be the best bet at the moment

    Today is back day so im gonna TRY some light weight dead lifts, and maybe ui should stick in some straight leg dead lifts as well?

  18. #17
    Go Heels! MixmasterNash's Avatar
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    Bling, you sound like you have significant form problems. Check those before you squat with much weight. Your knees can move forward some, depending on the style.

    Try squatting with body weight holding onto a door frame and/or squatting onto a box.

  19. #18
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    Lean into SMITH MACHINE squats


    You can lean back and be supported by the machine



    Which will keep your back completely vertical if you stand forward enough

  20. #19
    Senior Member CiteCollegiale's Avatar
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    take a week or 2 off from leg workouts. Do like spider man said stick with squats just lower the weight and practice your form

  21. #20
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    i dunno i dont know how i could be doing it wrong. they dont have boxes to squat off em, and i doubt abench would work cause there to high

  22. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by MixmasterNash
    Bling, you sound like you have significant form problems. Check those before you squat with much weight. Your knees can move forward some, depending on the style.

    Try squatting with body weight holding onto a door frame and/or squatting onto a box.
    Uh, the only type of squat I know where your knees may be slightly in front of your toes is the front squat. Thats all.

    "Success is never behind you, it is always, always in front of you."

  23. #22
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    In a power rack, i put the safety pins in case i fail.. which is many times.....So my form stays perfect..But i doubt you have any money for a gym membership.

    BTW, i constantly feel the weight pressure on my middle back just below the weight bar....

  24. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by PYRO
    In a power rack, i put the safety pins in case i fail.. which is many times.....So my form stays perfect..But i doubt you have any money for a gym membership.

    BTW, i constantly feel the weight pressure on my middle back just below the weight bar....
    are u talking to me?

  25. #24
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    you dont need to do squats to build massive quads, i put an entire inch on my quads in only a month on the leg press

  26. #25
    Motors, Music & Muscle HemiVision's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MixmasterNash
    I recognized this and added the lunges to prefatigue.
    I'm not sure I understand this. If you were trying to improve your squat form, why would you want to be prefatigued when you started?

    I do squats first in my leg routine, because they require the most balance from weaker stabilizers.

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