The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
Latest Article

The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
More Recent Articles
Contrast Training for Size
By: Lee Boyce
An Interview with Marianne Kane of Girls Gone Strong
By: Jordan Syatt
What Supplements Should I be Taking? By: Jay Wainwright
Bench Like a Girl By: Julia Ladewski
Some Thoughts on Building a Big Pull By: Christopher Mason

Facebook Join Facebook Group       Twitter Follow on Twitter       rss Subscribe via RSS
Results 1 to 18 of 18
  1. #1
    eek... it's lil' Fixation! fixationdarknes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    I'm a cali kid
    Posts
    5,297

    Shoulders are so sore after Chest/Tricep day...

    ...I did Flat Bench Press, Pec Deck, Rope Tricep Pushdowns, CG Bench, and Crossovers. I know that the bench works your shoulders, but my shoulders are the only muscle that are sore right now. I'm confused, wouldn't my chest/triceps be the most sore? My chest sure felt worked after my workout day. And btw, I did that workout yesterday, but my shoulders are sore now.

    I know that soreness doesn't necessarily = muscle growth, but because my shoulders are so sore, does that mean they will grow? And because my chest/tri aren't sore, that's not to say that they won't grow, right?

    But my main question is: why the heck are my shoulders so sore? I didn't even intend to workout my shoulders at all. Do you guys think I'm doing something wrong?
    Lifting Journal
    Age: 20, Height: 5'7", Weight: 165, Deadlift: 405, 9.5" Squat: 230 x 10, Bench: 195 (3x5)

    Quote Originally Posted by fatrb38
    I try to visualize that my girlfriend is under the weight and I have to push the weight up to save her. Of course it doesn't work and I just laugh as I think about the weight slowly crushing her bones. Then I remember it's me under the weight and give 200% effort to push it back up.

  2.    Support Wannabebig and use AtLarge Nutrition Supplements!


  3. #2
    Go Heels! MixmasterNash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Chapel Hill, NC
    Posts
    10,215
    You are using your shoulders in all of those exercises to some degree, primarily your anterior deltoids. Yes, they are getting lots of work. No, nothing is wrong.

  4. #3
    Hot as FCUK Shark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    In Denial
    Posts
    0
    Yes your chest will grow, yes, you are using your shoulders. No worries.

  5. #4
    RichLockyer
    Guest
    I don't think my tri's have ever been what I would really call sore.
    They've been a bit tight for maybe one day, but never had DOMS, and never more than 24 hours. My bi's and pec's are often slightly sore for as long as 4 days.

  6. #5
    permanently bulking Titanium_Jim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Mesa, AZ
    Posts
    1,777
    Maybe next chest/tri workout swap the pec deck with db flyes, at least 3 sets, and after you do the same tricep workout you did yesterday, do a couple sets of seated tricep extensions holding your elbow to your head for good form.
    Quote Originally Posted by fixationdarkness
    I did Flat Bench Press, Pec Deck, Rope Tricep Pushdowns, CG Bench, and Crossovers.
    Did you do those in that order? If you did, the crossovers belonged after the pec deck, not after your tricep work. You want to keep the whole chest together, THEN the tris.
    "I would have had sex with a pornstar, slapped a bitch and stole someone's dog." - deeder
    "Ever heard the term "screwing like rabbits? There's a reason it came about, and it has nothing to do with putting up drywall." - mrelwooddowd
    "If you are looking for a workout that will make you sore, you need to reassess your priorities, and perhaps look for an S&M club in your area." - Paul Stagg
    "I do encourage that people laugh at the fact I've put ass creme on my face." - Rock Steady
    "I look like a condom full of walnuts." - Risk10k
    "...the mothers would hang out of the window to get a piece of my little peanut ass and my bronzelike skin." - Rock

  7. #6
    eek... it's lil' Fixation! fixationdarknes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    I'm a cali kid
    Posts
    5,297
    Thanks for the info, guys. WBB and the people in these forums never fail me. That's what is so cool about you guys- you guys have lots of experience and I'm never afraid to ask questions here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium_Jim
    Did you do those in that order? If you did, the crossovers belonged after the pec deck, not after your tricep work. You want to keep the whole chest together, THEN the tris.
    Yeah, I got that cleared up in another thread. Thanks for your concern though.

    EDIT: I also have another question though. Since my shoulders get so worked, should I still fit the shoulder workout into my chest/tri day? Or should I try to fit it into my leg day or something. This is how it currently has been for a week or two:

    monday-legs
    tuesday-cardio/abs
    wednesday-chest/tri
    thursday-cardio/abs
    friday-back/bi
    saturday-cardio/abs
    sunday-rest

    And I'm deciding where to place my shoulder workout.
    Last edited by fixationdarknes; 11-24-2004 at 06:14 PM.
    Lifting Journal
    Age: 20, Height: 5'7", Weight: 165, Deadlift: 405, 9.5" Squat: 230 x 10, Bench: 195 (3x5)

    Quote Originally Posted by fatrb38
    I try to visualize that my girlfriend is under the weight and I have to push the weight up to save her. Of course it doesn't work and I just laugh as I think about the weight slowly crushing her bones. Then I remember it's me under the weight and give 200% effort to push it back up.

  8. #7
    Wannabebig New Member
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    michigan
    Posts
    0
    Are you trying to gain weight or lose some fat ?

    If trying to pack on some pounds i'd move back/bi to thurs , make fri shoulders then do cardio (if you need to) on sat .

    I was trying to use the model of your schedule and just change one or two things .
    Give me your broken , give me your beaten ... I will build them up , I will lead them ... to the threshhold . Make you stronger , make you believe .

  9. #8
    Fury Divine RickTheDestroyer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Chapel Hill, NC
    Posts
    2,114
    I think that you ought to train your shoulders with your chest and tri's. They're already getting worked, so why not hit them with a few sets of BB shoulder presses and call it a day? I used to train them with legs in a split similar to what you've got now, and I was really pretty unhappy with their progress. They are growing better now, and I don't do any direct shoulder work... I think a lot of it has to do with pulling my hands in a little narrower when I bench. It seems sort of counter-intuitive, but I swear that it hits my delts harder.

  10. #9
    Bismarck in Training emjlr3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Abingdon, MD
    Posts
    803
    if when doing bench trying tucking ur elbows in instead of flaring ur arms straight out, and touch lower on your chest...that will use less shoulders....it stops mine from hurting and it is the only way i can do chest

  11. #10
    Banned lilguy_bigdream's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    110
    Quote Originally Posted by fixationdarknes
    monday-legs
    tuesday-cardio/abs
    wednesday-chest/tri
    thursday-cardio/abs
    friday-back/bi
    saturday-cardio/abs
    sunday-rest

    And I'm deciding where to place my shoulder workout.
    put the bench on monday and put the shoulders on thursday or friday...
    cuz when you do chest exersices you are using alot of the shoulders (front delt)

    thats why if you do shoulders right after chest or chest after shoulders its alot weaker.

  12. #11
    Senior Member CiteCollegiale's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Ottawa
    Posts
    100
    You could do shoulder presses on your chest/tri day and rear delts on back/bicep

  13. #12
    Senior Member cphafner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    The Big Apple
    Posts
    7,704
    Based on your split, I would do shoulders on Saturday. As for your soreness, make sure you are doing a lot of stretching. I find that if I'm not stretched prior to working chest, my shoudlers get very stiff. Stretch before you workout/in between sets/after your workouts.
    My Journal
    http://wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?t=119765

    I think this is possibly the all-time best response on WBB. - Jorge Sanchez

    "you're an animal eat like one damn it!" - Wikked1

    "Now we're finally getting to the chicken or the egg question," I grinned. "Did I eat all that food because my size gives me more of an appetite, or did I get to be this big because I've been forcing myself to eat like this for years?"

    From A Body Builder is Born

    i knew you were a beast but not that kinda of a beast that eats grown men and children.. lilmase

  14. #13
    Wannabebig Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Columbus, Ohio
    Posts
    52
    could be a simple change in technique to take some shoulder work out of chest.

    Hows your grip? is it really narrow?

    How are your feet placed? flat on floor? do you keep your knees in the air?

    Do you roll your shoulders during bench press?

    IMHO - the best chest split is Chest & Triceps. They are your two biggest groups when doing chest. Also, no matter how much you think about doing chest more than once a week, dont do it. Please limit to once a week and allow your chest to repair itself.

  15. #14
    eek... it's lil' Fixation! fixationdarknes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    I'm a cali kid
    Posts
    5,297
    Alright, I think stretching is one of the problems. I don't stretch a lot. Perhaps I should go do like 5 minutes of jump rope before I stretch?

    And I like what CiteCollegiale said about doing front delts with chest/tri and do back delts with back/bi. Do any of you guys do anything similar to that? And do you work the medial delts directly at all?

    Grip: My thumbs are right outside of the grip rings. Maybe an inch out. Yes, feet flat on the floor. My shoulders are retracted during the bench press.
    Lifting Journal
    Age: 20, Height: 5'7", Weight: 165, Deadlift: 405, 9.5" Squat: 230 x 10, Bench: 195 (3x5)

    Quote Originally Posted by fatrb38
    I try to visualize that my girlfriend is under the weight and I have to push the weight up to save her. Of course it doesn't work and I just laugh as I think about the weight slowly crushing her bones. Then I remember it's me under the weight and give 200% effort to push it back up.

  16. #15
    permanently bulking Titanium_Jim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Mesa, AZ
    Posts
    1,777
    I do exactly that. On back/bi day, after I do some bb and db rows, I do bent-over lateral rows for the posterior delts, and immedtiately after my chest routine on chest/tri day, I never miss chest flyes, but after my chest is fried I do flyes more lowering my arms closer to my sides than outward in the chest fly direction, which makes the lifting come mostly from the anterior delts. On shoulder day, I work mostly the lateral head, but at the end of the shoulder routine, there's always military press and things like that that use anterior delts too. And I think the end of reps of upright rows hit your posterior delts too. I'm a firm believer in tht a mind-muscle connection will help you target what you want to work, I. E. if you're trying to hit your chest with db bench, give the chest a good full stretch, and imagine it flexing and pushing and getting stronger and concentrate as much as possible on using mostly your chest to lift the weight, and trying to use delts and tris initially just as stabilizers until about halfway through the rep when they have to take over. Sorry about the real long post, hope it helps.
    "I would have had sex with a pornstar, slapped a bitch and stole someone's dog." - deeder
    "Ever heard the term "screwing like rabbits? There's a reason it came about, and it has nothing to do with putting up drywall." - mrelwooddowd
    "If you are looking for a workout that will make you sore, you need to reassess your priorities, and perhaps look for an S&M club in your area." - Paul Stagg
    "I do encourage that people laugh at the fact I've put ass creme on my face." - Rock Steady
    "I look like a condom full of walnuts." - Risk10k
    "...the mothers would hang out of the window to get a piece of my little peanut ass and my bronzelike skin." - Rock

  17. #16
    Wannabebig Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    30
    Working chest/shoulders/triceps on one session is fine so long as the volume is kept low. Because shoulders and triceps are used so much during the first half of the workout when chest is the main muscle being worked, doing say 4 sets of overhead press, 4 sets of side laterals, 5 sets of close grip bench, and 3 sets of skulls is not only dumb, but overkill as well. Just remmeber that if you want to keep working chest/shoulders/triceps all in one session, you have to keep the volume low. For instance, below would be a good bet.

    Flat Bench Press 2 x 8-10
    Incline Bench Press 2 x 8-10
    Dips 2 x 8-10
    Overhead Press 2 x 8-10
    Side Lateral Raise 1 x 8-10
    Rear Lateral Raise 1 x 8-10
    Close Grip Bench Press 2 x 8-10
    Skullcrusher 1 x 8-10

  18. #17
    permanently bulking Titanium_Jim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Mesa, AZ
    Posts
    1,777
    I know everybody's not the same, but my shoulders need more volume than that. I have to give my shoulders their own day. If you can work your shoulders effectively with that low volume (one set later delts, one set post delts) then go for it. But that also has only one set directly hitting triceps, which might need more volume as well. It all depends on how much you get out of whatever volume in those muscles.
    "I would have had sex with a pornstar, slapped a bitch and stole someone's dog." - deeder
    "Ever heard the term "screwing like rabbits? There's a reason it came about, and it has nothing to do with putting up drywall." - mrelwooddowd
    "If you are looking for a workout that will make you sore, you need to reassess your priorities, and perhaps look for an S&M club in your area." - Paul Stagg
    "I do encourage that people laugh at the fact I've put ass creme on my face." - Rock Steady
    "I look like a condom full of walnuts." - Risk10k
    "...the mothers would hang out of the window to get a piece of my little peanut ass and my bronzelike skin." - Rock

  19. #18
    Wannabebig Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    30
    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium_Jim
    I know everybody's not the same, but my shoulders need more volume than that. I have to give my shoulders their own day. If you can work your shoulders effectively with that low volume (one set later delts, one set post delts) then go for it. But that also has only one set directly hitting triceps, which might need more volume as well. It all depends on how much you get out of whatever volume in those muscles.
    That's fine to have more volume if you aren't working shoulders/chest/triceps together in one session. I think the best bet then would be a chest/biceps, legs/shoulders, back/triceps split.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •