The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
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    Are traps closely linked with shoulders?

    The one muscle group I want to grow now more than anything else is my delts. Trouble is with any shoulder exercise I do, even over head presses, I feel more of a burn in my traps somehow. This is especially so with lateral raises.
    Doubtlessly my shoulders have grown since I've started doing more delt focussed exercises, but so have my traps, which were disproportionately large to my shoulders in the first place.
    With the lateral raises, should I keep my arm dead straight with a lighter weight, while raising slowly, to avoid any shrugging of the shoulders. notice when people go heavy with lateral raises, they end up shrugginf their shoulders a great deal.
    Anyone relate?

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  3. #2
    Senior Member getfit's Avatar
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    traps are like a diamond shaped muscle placed on the upper back and shoulders
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  4. #3
    Moderator Adam's Avatar
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    Don't do upright rows. They use alot of traps.
    Also when you do side laterals, be sure not to go above a 90degree's between your body and arms.
    As for the militaries, i have no idea why you would feel that in your traps.
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  5. #4
    MilliVanilli
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam MacKinnon
    Don't do upright rows. They use alot of traps.
    Also when you do side laterals, be sure not to go above a 90degree's between your body and arms.
    As for the militaries, i have no idea why you would feel that in your traps.

    Ditto.

    I think most would tend to feel military press in their chest because they lean with their chest too far forward. Be sure to be upright
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  6. #5
    Getting un-streamlined Progress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ianack4life
    Ditto.

    I think most would tend to feel military press in their chest because they lean with their chest too far forward. Be sure to be upright
    Wouldn't you feel it more in your chest if you leaned backward i.e. incline?

  7. #6
    Moderator Adam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ABDomega
    Wouldn't you feel it more in your chest if you leaned backward i.e. incline?
    yup
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  8. #7
    Getting un-streamlined Progress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam MacKinnon
    yup

    BTW, is it better when doing military or shoulder barbell press to do it on the bench with the upright seat, or to do it on a flat bench and just keep your body upright?

  9. #8
    Panic Prone waynis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mad Max
    With the lateral raises, should I keep my arm dead straight with a lighter weight, while raising slowly, to avoid any shrugging of the shoulders. notice when people go heavy with lateral raises, they end up shrugginf their shoulders a great deal.
    Anyone relate?
    You don't have to do lateral raises. There is more concentration on the traps with this. Especially if you grab heavier weight and start to swing it kinda. Do some arnolds or free weight military or shoulder presses. I purposly avoid my traps as much as possible cause i"am not going for big traps. But i do build them a little doing row exercises. To concentrate on them shrugging is what you do. Lateral raises can force you to shrug sometimes so i Don't do em.
    Last edited by waynis; 02-19-2005 at 10:03 AM.
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  10. #9
    MilliVanilli
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    Quote Originally Posted by ABDomega
    Wouldn't you feel it more in your chest if you leaned backward i.e. incline?

    Correct.

    I said if you stuck your chest out, i.e., round your back backwards, pulling your shoulders back and puffing your chest forward.

    Sorry for the confusion
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  11. #10
    MilliVanilli
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    Quote Originally Posted by ABDomega
    BTW, is it better when doing military or shoulder barbell press to do it on the bench with the upright seat, or to do it on a flat bench and just keep your body upright?

    The bench will aid somewhat in keeping your back straight and not leaning back and pushing your chest out.

    If you're going to sit and do them, you might as well do them on the military bench, otherwise stand and do them.
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  12. #11
    MilliVanilli
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    Quote Originally Posted by waynis
    You don't have to do lateral raises. There is more concentration on the traps with this. Especially if you grab heavier weight and start to swing it kinda. Do some arnolds or free weight military or shoulder presses. I purposly avoid my traps as much as possible cause i"am not going for big traps. But i do build them a little doing row exercises. To concentrate on them shrugging is what you do. Lateral raises can force you to shrug sometimes so i Don't do em.

    Uh, why wouldn't you do lateral raises? Do them with proper form and you won't use your traps very much.
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  13. #12
    Panic Prone waynis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ianack4life
    Uh, why wouldn't you do lateral raises? Do them with proper form and you won't use your traps very much.
    you avoid concentration on traps. I think that's what he's going for. I didn't say they were worthless and no one should do em.
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  14. #13
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    Generally I do feel my upper back quite a bit when I press heavy, especially behind the neck. I think this may be because the upper back stabilizes the weight as you bring it back down.
    Also what about the form of a lateral raise. Like I said before a lot of people tend to bring the dumbells forward in front of their waist, before bringing them up and back, so it recruits the traps and upper back quite a lot. I believe that if you really want to isolate the medial head of your deats, then you should keep your arm dead straight, and lift starting with the weight at your side. Keeping your arm straight, I reckon, restricts your ability to shrug. The problem people have with this technique is that, you wont' be able to lift very much, roughly a sixth of what you can military press. Also control it up slowly, which ensures that your traps don't pull your arm up with one almighty shrug giving your arm momentum and effectively taking most of the strain off the delts.
    I dunno, I just reckon that lateral delts are the least powerful of all the most popular exercises, in that you can't lift very much, and that you have to maintain very good form if you want to isolate the medial head.
    Lateral raises are an isolation exercise for the medial delts. If you want big traps then do shrugs. When you mix the two, like I see many people do, I believ you get an, ultimately, ineffective hybrid exercise, that does little for either your traps or your delts...I'm just hypothesising here.

  15. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by waynis
    you avoid concentration on traps. I think that's what he's going for. I didn't say they were worthless and no one should do em.

    Lateral raises don't concentrate on traps.
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  16. #15
    Panic Prone waynis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ianack4life
    Lateral raises don't concentrate on traps.
    with heavy weight, improper form you can get the traps involved. I was only saying this because that's what he was feeling. He don't have to do lateral raises. There's other options.
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  17. #16
    Senior Member smalls's Avatar
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    Even perfect form on lateral raises will work the traps to a degree.

    Bro, you gotta experiment yourself and find a way to minimize trap involvement. Getting advice is good but what works for others may not work for you.
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  18. #17
    permanently bulking Titanium_Jim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mad Max
    Keeping your arm straight, I reckon, restricts your ability to shrug.
    You can still shrug with your arms straight, but like you said, you HAVE to bring the weight down if you're doing lat raises with straight arms because more stress is placed on the elbows and forearms.

    IMO you shouldn't worry about your traps getting worked with your shoulders. If you're genetically gifted enough to get big traps without doing shrugs it will only make your shoulders look broader. It's almost impossible to not use it in shoulder exercises, because your traps hold up and support your shoulders. To hit your delts at the end of a workout to cool down arm circles are good.
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  19. #18
    MilliVanilli
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    Quote Originally Posted by smalls
    Even perfect form on lateral raises will work the traps to a degree.
    Most exercises incorporate more muscles than just the ones that are targeted.

    Bench press also uses some of your upper back muscles...would you stray from doing them for that reason?
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  20. #19
    Senior Member smalls's Avatar
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    I never suggested not doing lateral raises bro, so address your questions to the right poster. If the guy wants to minimize trap involvment their are better movements, but their always going to be involved.
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    Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination
    alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'press on' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race."
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  21. #20
    MilliVanilli
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    Quote Originally Posted by smalls
    I never suggested not doing lateral raises bro, so address your questions to the right poster. If the guy wants to minimize trap involvment their are better movements, but their always going to be involved.

    Sorry for the confusion.

    I'm talking to waynis and whoever suggests not doing lateral raises.
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  22. #21
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    WOW.
    I say let your traps get freaky big and just catch everything else up.
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