The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #26
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    I thought he wasn't worried about strength? Which makes this whole freakin' argument pointless.
    Vin Diesel has a fever.. and the only prescription is more cowbell.

    Budiak: That girl I maced
    Budiak: macked
    Budiak: heh maced
    Budiak: I wish

    ShmrckPmp5: a good thing people can't fire guns through the computer...your ass would have been shot years ago

    Y2A 47: youre smooth as hell
    Y2A 47: thats why you get outta tickets, and into panties

    galileo: you're a fucking beast and I hate you
    galileo: hate

    assgrabbers are never subtile, they will grabb ass whereever they go,public or not, I know the type, because I am one. - Rock

  2. #27
    En botella whey! Max-Mex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LittleJake
    :withstupi

    Do Flat BB Bench and Incline DB Bench on the same day along with some flyes or cable crossovers.

    That's my workout for chest. 2 working sets of BB bench. 2 sets of DB bench. 2 sets of some kind of fly(cable, machine, or DB). All sets are for 8 reps (if possible). I have recently added 2 sets of pushups (10reps) just for the hell of it.
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  3. #28
    eek... it's lil' Fixation! fixationdarknes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PowerManDL
    I thought he wasn't worried about strength? Which makes this whole freakin' argument pointless.
    What? Strength is the main thing I'm working out for.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatrb38
    I try to visualize that my girlfriend is under the weight and I have to push the weight up to save her. Of course it doesn't work and I just laugh as I think about the weight slowly crushing her bones. Then I remember it's me under the weight and give 200% effort to push it back up.

  4. #29
    eek... it's lil' Fixation! fixationdarknes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LittleJake
    :withstupi

    Do Flat BB Bench and Incline DB Bench on the same day along with some flyes or cable crossovers.

    On your next chest day, do Incline BB Bench, and Flat DB Bench along with some flyes or cable crossovers.

    That's 3 exercises, do 5 working sets per exercise, of anywhere from 6-10 reps, and make sure you're getting enough food, and you will see gains..

    2 weeks later and you still see no gains, eat more.
    Okay, so one day do Flat BB Bench, and then Incline DB Bench. And on the next workout day, do I want to do Dlat DB Bench and then Incline BB Bench? Or would I want to do the Incline BB Bench first that day?
    Lifting Journal
    Age: 20, Height: 5'7", Weight: 165, Deadlift: 405, 9.5" Squat: 230 x 10, Bench: 195 (3x5)

    Quote Originally Posted by fatrb38
    I try to visualize that my girlfriend is under the weight and I have to push the weight up to save her. Of course it doesn't work and I just laugh as I think about the weight slowly crushing her bones. Then I remember it's me under the weight and give 200% effort to push it back up.

  5. #30
    LittleJake JSully's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fixationdarknes
    Okay, so one day do Flat BB Bench, and then Incline DB Bench. And on the next workout day, do I want to do Dlat DB Bench and then Incline BB Bench? Or would I want to do the Incline BB Bench first that day?
    It doesn't matter what order you do them in. I prefer doing flyes before benching because I get a pre-fatigue and I feel the presses more in my chest.

    As far as should you do arnold presses, I never do 'em. I don't like that exercise. IF I were to, and I do mean IF (because I depise doing chest and shoulders the same day, I like to give shoulders their own day), I would do what I said for chest, then add a military press, side raises, rear raises, and trap work...and if you were to do tris I would add some TRICEP dips (as opposed to chest dips [dont lean down as much]) and some pushdowns or skull crushes. So by designing 2 separate chest/shoulder/tri workouts I would go with this:

    workout #1:
    Flat BB Bench 3x8
    Incline DB Bench 2x8
    Flat DB flyes 2x8
    Seated BB Military Press 3x8
    DB Side Raises 2x8
    Bent Over DB Side Raises (rear delts) 2x8
    DB Shrugs 2x8
    Dips 2x8
    Cable Pushdowns 2x8
    Skull Crushers 2x8

    workout#2:
    Incline BB Bench 3x8
    Flat DB Bench 2x8
    Cable XO's 2x8
    Seated DB Shoulder Press 3x8
    DB Side Raises 2x8
    Reverse Pec Deck or Upright Rows 2x8
    BB Shrugs 3x8
    Dips 2x8
    Cable Pushdowns 2x8
    Skull Crushers 2x8

    That gives you 7 working sets per chest and shoulders, and 6 working sets for triceps. Again this is how I would do a chest/shoulders/tri workout. As far as when to apply the 2 workouts, I would them week by week. So week 1 = workout 1, week 2 = workout 2, week 3 = workout 1... etc.

    You may think thats alot of volume but I don't think so. I actually don't think thats enough volume, and again, if it were me, I would do 10working sets per bodypart and 8 for triceps. But I taylored this a with you in mind. I hope that helps.
    Last edited by JSully; 03-02-2005 at 06:10 PM.
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  6. #31
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    Then ditch the lame bodybuilding split.
    Vin Diesel has a fever.. and the only prescription is more cowbell.

    Budiak: That girl I maced
    Budiak: macked
    Budiak: heh maced
    Budiak: I wish

    ShmrckPmp5: a good thing people can't fire guns through the computer...your ass would have been shot years ago

    Y2A 47: youre smooth as hell
    Y2A 47: thats why you get outta tickets, and into panties

    galileo: you're a fucking beast and I hate you
    galileo: hate

    assgrabbers are never subtile, they will grabb ass whereever they go,public or not, I know the type, because I am one. - Rock

  7. #32
    eek... it's lil' Fixation! fixationdarknes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PowerManDL
    Then ditch the lame bodybuilding split.
    What does that mean? I wish you'd say more than like 5 words in your posts. When you do that, it never really helps me to understand anything.
    Last edited by fixationdarknes; 03-02-2005 at 06:23 PM.
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    Age: 20, Height: 5'7", Weight: 165, Deadlift: 405, 9.5" Squat: 230 x 10, Bench: 195 (3x5)

    Quote Originally Posted by fatrb38
    I try to visualize that my girlfriend is under the weight and I have to push the weight up to save her. Of course it doesn't work and I just laugh as I think about the weight slowly crushing her bones. Then I remember it's me under the weight and give 200% effort to push it back up.

  8. #33
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    You're using a relatively high-volume split routine that "blasts" the muscle once a week.

    This isn't even optimal for size gains, let alone long-term strength gains.

    You want to worry about gaining serious strength, do 2 or more sessions per week.
    Vin Diesel has a fever.. and the only prescription is more cowbell.

    Budiak: That girl I maced
    Budiak: macked
    Budiak: heh maced
    Budiak: I wish

    ShmrckPmp5: a good thing people can't fire guns through the computer...your ass would have been shot years ago

    Y2A 47: youre smooth as hell
    Y2A 47: thats why you get outta tickets, and into panties

    galileo: you're a fucking beast and I hate you
    galileo: hate

    assgrabbers are never subtile, they will grabb ass whereever they go,public or not, I know the type, because I am one. - Rock

  9. #34
    LittleJake JSully's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PowerManDL
    You're using a relatively high-volume split routine that "blasts" the muscle once a week.

    This isn't even optimal for size gains, let alone long-term strength gains.

    You want to worry about gaining serious strength, do 2 or more sessions per week.
    I just suggested that cuz I figured he was on some sort of a 3-day split.

    When I'm bulking I workout chest, shoulders, back, legs, arms on each of their own days with 15-18 working sets per group. With enough calories my strenght flies up.

    FOR ME, anything more than 1x week didn't really do much except cut me up.

    Although, when I used to do legs 3x week my squats flew up. I would rather do everything 2x week but I like to do more than 2 exercises per bodypart and antything more than 2 exercises takes forever and a day to get out of the gym. I'm not into 4 hour workouts anymore.
    Last edited by JSully; 03-02-2005 at 06:35 PM.
    Jake Sullivan
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  10. #35
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    You can't take a straight bodybuilding routine, especially with a high volume, and just do it twice expecting different results.

    You'll have to modify the individual workouts as well.
    Vin Diesel has a fever.. and the only prescription is more cowbell.

    Budiak: That girl I maced
    Budiak: macked
    Budiak: heh maced
    Budiak: I wish

    ShmrckPmp5: a good thing people can't fire guns through the computer...your ass would have been shot years ago

    Y2A 47: youre smooth as hell
    Y2A 47: thats why you get outta tickets, and into panties

    galileo: you're a fucking beast and I hate you
    galileo: hate

    assgrabbers are never subtile, they will grabb ass whereever they go,public or not, I know the type, because I am one. - Rock

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by fixationdarknes
    What does that mean? I wish you'd say more than like 5 words in your posts. When you do that, it never really helps me to understand anything.
    but it still about the best advice give on this thread.

    have a look at some people pwoerlifting journal on here. that may give a good guide to how they trian.

    have a look at chris rodgers jounral if hes got one.
    my exprience - joined gym 10 years ago, 6 1/2 years hard weight training exprience.

  12. #37
    Banned KingJustin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by body
    it not that simple. If hes really weak and his full potential if he trained to his very best may be say 140 pounds. while some one is benching like 405 pounds and his name is eg ryan kelly. He will be alot further away from his full potential so can get away with less rest.

    its all relative to waht he is capable and how he trians.
    Go ask some of the guys like Chris Mason that have been training for years.

    When I was first getting started and my max was 75 lbs I could recover from 3 sets of 8, with the last two sets to failure very quickly. Now, if I did the same thing I would take much longer to recover.
    Last edited by KingJustin; 03-03-2005 at 01:20 PM.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bizatch
    Go ask some of the guys like Chris Mason that have been training for years.

    When I was first getting started and my max was 75 lbs I could recover from 3 sets of 8, with the last two sets to failure very quickly. Now, if I did the same thing I would find myself sore for much longer.
    you missed the word relative out. its how far YOU are from your potential. rather than the actual weight you lift.


    and lack of soarness does not mean you are recovered as well.
    my exprience - joined gym 10 years ago, 6 1/2 years hard weight training exprience.

  14. #39
    Banned KingJustin's Avatar
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    I really doubt this man's full potential is 140 lbs on the bench press. My points were made assuming he does not have some kind of genetic disease that doesn't allow him to progress past 140 lbs, which I feel is very likely.

    Previous post edited, though, I should have been more clear and not used soreness.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bizatch
    I really doubt this man's full potential is 140 lbs on the bench press. My points were made assuming he does not have some kind of genetic disease that doesn't allow him to progress past 140 lbs, which I feel is very likely.
    .
    I do agree its unlikely his max potential is 140 pounds. But I was just making apoint about being relative to your capabiliteis
    my exprience - joined gym 10 years ago, 6 1/2 years hard weight training exprience.

  16. #41
    mrelwooddowd Patz's Avatar
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    I agree with body. Your body reacts to loading the same way, whether you're 100lbs of muscle or 200lbs of muscle. Required recovery periods for individuals are just that, and not the standard across the board. I do, and have needed at least 4 days between workouts.
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  17. #42
    eek... it's lil' Fixation! fixationdarknes's Avatar
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    Thanks for the help guys. I now use BB and DBs and am trying to eat a lot. Hopefully I can get past this little plateau thing.
    Lifting Journal
    Age: 20, Height: 5'7", Weight: 165, Deadlift: 405, 9.5" Squat: 230 x 10, Bench: 195 (3x5)

    Quote Originally Posted by fatrb38
    I try to visualize that my girlfriend is under the weight and I have to push the weight up to save her. Of course it doesn't work and I just laugh as I think about the weight slowly crushing her bones. Then I remember it's me under the weight and give 200% effort to push it back up.

  18. #43
    Tartan Muscle Crew IRN-BRU's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bizatch
    This all in mind, I think people somewhat new to the iron game do much better with a twice a week routine than a once a week. You can recover fully from benching 105 in a couple of days, you don't need to wait a week.
    I agree, I think it's because it's gonna be a small muscle, with less fibres for the body to repair. And with less experience, even less damage is done to muscle. So a week to recover is likely too much.

    I try to work out each muscle as often as possible given the length of time it takes to properly work through my routine. Which is roughly 1.3 times per week, as its a 3 day split + swimming and just wraps around every 4 weekdays. You need to come up with something that is suited to yourself. Apart from that it's not rocket science, and there are no easy shortcuts. Just stick at it and listen to your body and results.

    edit: Oh, I used to do a 2 day split 4 times a week when I was starting out and that was the bomb. (ABoABoo). Especially since I only had 30 mins for my work out, I coudlnt annihilate muscles good enough to need more rest. Anyway, best to stimulate not annihilate.
    Last edited by IRN-BRU; 03-03-2005 at 06:30 PM.
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  19. #44
    eek... it's lil' Fixation! fixationdarknes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IRN-BRU
    I agree, I think it's because it's gonna be a small muscle, with less fibres for the body to repair. And with less experience, even less damage is done to muscle. So a week to recover is likely too much.

    I try to work out each muscle as often as possible given the length of time it takes to properly work through my routine. Which is roughly 1.3 times per week, as its a 3 day split + swimming and just wraps around every 4 weekdays. You need to come up with something that is suited to yourself. Apart from that it's not rocket science, and there are no easy shortcuts. Just stick at it and listen to your body and results.

    edit: Oh, I used to do a 2 day split 4 times a week when I was starting out and that was the bomb. (ABoABoo). Especially since I only had 30 mins for my work out, I coudlnt annihilate muscles good enough to need more rest. Anyway, best to stimulate not annihilate.
    Well, here's my lifting routine:

    ~~Monday (legs)
    -Squats
    -Calf Raises
    -SLDL
    ~~Wednesday (chest/delt/tri)
    -Flat BB Bench (alt. Incline)
    -Incline DB Bench (alt. Flat)
    -DB Chest Fly
    -Dips
    ~~Friday (back)
    -DL
    -Chinups
    -BB Bent-over Rows
    -BB Shrugs

    I feel like my lower back can't take any more than twice a week, because it gets hit every Monday and Friday. So, do you think I should rotate out SLDLs and stuff so that I can maybe workout each muscle group more in one week? Sometimes I feel like just getting rid of the excess 1-2 days of rest, and speeding things up a bit. But I'm not really sure. My gains seem to be pretty decent right now (going up at least 5 lbs. a week on Squats/DL/SLDL, with Bench gains slower). But I think that it might be possible to speed up my gains if I speed up my split to less than a week.

    *shrug*
    Last edited by fixationdarknes; 03-03-2005 at 06:44 PM.
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    Age: 20, Height: 5'7", Weight: 165, Deadlift: 405, 9.5" Squat: 230 x 10, Bench: 195 (3x5)

    Quote Originally Posted by fatrb38
    I try to visualize that my girlfriend is under the weight and I have to push the weight up to save her. Of course it doesn't work and I just laugh as I think about the weight slowly crushing her bones. Then I remember it's me under the weight and give 200% effort to push it back up.

  20. #45
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    Ugh.

    That's absolutely horrible, and what I'd expect from a guy at your age and stats.

    Firstly, you'd likely see better growth from either an upper/lower routine or full body routine done three times a week. The split stuff can be useful when you're more advanced...but it's not a good way to start out, especially considering the way you've set this up.

    Secondly, your main concern right now needs to be eating, not worrying yourself to death over the trivial minutiae over this exercise or that, especially in the context of a horribly unbalanced routine.

    With luck you'll learn that questions like the original post don't even need asking.....
    Last edited by PowerManDL; 03-03-2005 at 07:05 PM.
    Vin Diesel has a fever.. and the only prescription is more cowbell.

    Budiak: That girl I maced
    Budiak: macked
    Budiak: heh maced
    Budiak: I wish

    ShmrckPmp5: a good thing people can't fire guns through the computer...your ass would have been shot years ago

    Y2A 47: youre smooth as hell
    Y2A 47: thats why you get outta tickets, and into panties

    galileo: you're a fucking beast and I hate you
    galileo: hate

    assgrabbers are never subtile, they will grabb ass whereever they go,public or not, I know the type, because I am one. - Rock

  21. #46
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    PUSH UPS!!!!!!!!!!! DO PUSH UP all day ... whenever u have free time... get on the floor and do like 3 sets of 15 or so... try decline and incline... Especially in the morning, i saw incredible gains in my bench just from pushups. and keep your workout, increasing weight. It worked for me and i still do it... and if u do pushups as suggested ... do more... I do about 150 right when i wake up and stretch right b4 and after... mostly declines , but anyway thats my suggestion. (by the way--the form and overall mass of my pecs enlarged alot!) so there
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  22. #47
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    Son of a bitch.
    Vin Diesel has a fever.. and the only prescription is more cowbell.

    Budiak: That girl I maced
    Budiak: macked
    Budiak: heh maced
    Budiak: I wish

    ShmrckPmp5: a good thing people can't fire guns through the computer...your ass would have been shot years ago

    Y2A 47: youre smooth as hell
    Y2A 47: thats why you get outta tickets, and into panties

    galileo: you're a fucking beast and I hate you
    galileo: hate

    assgrabbers are never subtile, they will grabb ass whereever they go,public or not, I know the type, because I am one. - Rock

  23. #48
    eek... it's lil' Fixation! fixationdarknes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PowerManDL
    Ugh.

    That's absolutely horrible, and what I'd expect from a guy at your age and stats.

    Firstly, you'd likely see better growth from either an upper/lower routine or full body routine done three times a week. The split stuff can be useful when you're more advanced...but it's not a good way to start out, especially considering the way you've set this up.

    Secondly, your main concern right now needs to be eating, not worrying yourself to death over the trivial minutiae over this exercise or that, especially in the context of a horribly unbalanced routine.

    With luck you'll learn that questions like the original post don't even need asking.....
    Do you guys all agree with Powerman? I really don't know how to design an upper-body/lower-body routine or a full-body routine. Could someone maybe give me an example of what a good upper/lower or full-body routine would look like?
    Lifting Journal
    Age: 20, Height: 5'7", Weight: 165, Deadlift: 405, 9.5" Squat: 230 x 10, Bench: 195 (3x5)

    Quote Originally Posted by fatrb38
    I try to visualize that my girlfriend is under the weight and I have to push the weight up to save her. Of course it doesn't work and I just laugh as I think about the weight slowly crushing her bones. Then I remember it's me under the weight and give 200% effort to push it back up.

  24. #49
    Banned KingJustin's Avatar
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    First my jaw dropped, and then ...

    Quote Originally Posted by PowerManDL
    Son of a bitch.
    Hahahhahahahahahah

  25. #50
    Banned KingJustin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fixationdarknes
    Do you guys all agree with Powerman? I really don't know how to design an upper-body/lower-body routine or a full-body routine. Could someone maybe give me an example of what a good upper/lower or full-body routine would look like?
    You get this one free:

    Upper:
    Chins
    Rows
    DB Incline
    Dips

    This would be really optimal. If you want to keep bench (and if you do, then realize your triceps will get hit a little less), then switch DB Incline and dips for BB Bench and Military. Throw in curls or reverse curls if you'd like, but they're not going to make much of a difference and may hinder your recovery ability slightly.

    Lower:
    Squats
    Snatch Grip Deadlifts
    Shrugs (I know that it's not really a lower body exercise, but it'll work ... you can do power cleans here instead if you learn the technique from a good coach)
    Weighted Sit-ups on the incline

    Do everything twice a week and you'll be in good shape. 2-3 sets with 4-12 reps (start on the high end of reps and slowly work down a little bit as you plateau ... and up the sets maybe a little). See how well you're recovering from the exercises. If you are easily recovering then go closer to failure, add more sets, etc. If not, then go farther from failure, take away sets ...

    And yeah I definitely agree with Powerman. I hate those splits for someone new to bodybuilding or someone trying to get stronger. Twice a week splits are so much more effective.
    Last edited by KingJustin; 03-03-2005 at 09:03 PM.

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