The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
    Journalist galileo's Avatar
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    The Workout Window - Pre, During, and Post-Workout Nutrition

    Inspired by the thread here, I feel this would be a good time to post some information about a realistic protocol for workout-centered nutrition.

    Here is something to get us started:

    Quote Originally Posted by Borris
    I'm all about the pre-workout carbs.

    Most of the GLUT-4 receptors (the magical "post-workout" window that everyone seems all excited about) have already receded back into the cell by the time your post-workout nutrition gets into your blood stream which makes this far less important (although still huge for other reasons) than everybody crows.

    PRE-workout nutrition is of the utmost importance because that's what's primed to actually take advantage of this phenomenon.

    If your pre-workout nutrition is in order, your post-workout nutrition is less important. If your pre-workout nutrition sucks, then hopefully your post-workout intake is great so that it's better than nothing.

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  3. #2
    As I Am Paul Stagg's Avatar
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    Just from personal experience, no science at all:

    I'm making out just as well or better downing a decent iso meal about an hour before training, then downing 20oz of powerade in the first, say, third of my workout, then eating an iso meal (give or take) about an hour or less) after training compared to when I would focus on a meal immediatly post workout.

    I figure I'd probably be a little better off downing 20-40g of protein immediately post workout, but not so much that I've actually bothered.
    Squats work better than supplements.
    "You know, if I thought like that, I'd never put more than one plate on the bar for anything, I'd never use bands or chains, I'd never squat to parallel or below, and I'd never let out the slightest grunt when I lift. At some point in your lifting career (assuming you're planning on getting reasonably strong and big), you're going to have to accept that most people think you are some kind of freak." -Sensei
    "You're wrong, and I have a completely irrelevant pubmed abstract that may or may not say so." - Belial
    I has a blog.
    I has a facebook.

  4. #3
    Journalist galileo's Avatar
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    Eating prior to training in that fashion would definitely yield decent results. My best efforts were actually made with a blend of the two - a decent carb/protein (oatmeal/turkey) meal 1.5-2 hours prior to my workout, then before the workout a small amount of dextrose/whey (2:1), then post-workout a mixture of dextrose/whey (2:1 or 1:1).

  5. #4
    Just watch me ... Built's Avatar
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    This is a really great thread to start. Thank you galileo.

    Borris, what would you suggest eating and when on workout days? IE when would the pre-lifting carb meal come in, what would I eat for the rest of the day if I usually train between meals 4 and 5 (of 6 daily)?

    And would this suggestion be different for cutting than for bulking?

  6. #5
    I wannabebig!
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    although I take in more carbs post workout I still get a good amount pre workout in the form of malto/whey then double what I usually take pre workout for post workout.

  7. #6
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    What Borris said is pretty much what I do.

    I get a carb/protein shake sometime before I lift, don't usually care for anything during, then come home and eat some solid food. Occasionally I'll make one big-ass shake, drink half before, half after, then eat...but usually it's the first scenario.

    His rationale about the lag between digestion and uptake into the bloodstream was my exact reasoning.
    Vin Diesel has a fever.. and the only prescription is more cowbell.

    Budiak: That girl I maced
    Budiak: macked
    Budiak: heh maced
    Budiak: I wish

    ShmrckPmp5: a good thing people can't fire guns through the computer...your ass would have been shot years ago

    Y2A 47: youre smooth as hell
    Y2A 47: thats why you get outta tickets, and into panties

    galileo: you're a fucking beast and I hate you
    galileo: hate

    assgrabbers are never subtile, they will grabb ass whereever they go,public or not, I know the type, because I am one. - Rock

  8. #7

  9. #8
    Journalist galileo's Avatar
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    For cutting, it depends on the style diet that I'm employing at the time - but I typically just work the cals into my daily totals, assuming I'm not doing a low-carb diet.

  10. #9
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    I'd change the content, perhaps, but not the basic idea.
    Vin Diesel has a fever.. and the only prescription is more cowbell.

    Budiak: That girl I maced
    Budiak: macked
    Budiak: heh maced
    Budiak: I wish

    ShmrckPmp5: a good thing people can't fire guns through the computer...your ass would have been shot years ago

    Y2A 47: youre smooth as hell
    Y2A 47: thats why you get outta tickets, and into panties

    galileo: you're a fucking beast and I hate you
    galileo: hate

    assgrabbers are never subtile, they will grabb ass whereever they go,public or not, I know the type, because I am one. - Rock

  11. #10
    Do that voodoo that he do
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    Well, what usually happens is that I train after a couple of meals during the day. If I were to train first thing in the morning things would change a little bit.

    I'll do one of two things:

    If I'm taking in my pre-workout nutrition half an hour or less before training, it's usually two scoops of whey and 25-50g of dextrose, and the same thing right after training. As in I mix a big shake, drink half, and have the other half sitting in the locker waiting for me.

    If I have about an hour before I lift I do something like 1 cup of oats and 1 scoop of whey with 16 oz of skim milk before and 2 scoops of whey and 25g of dextrose afterwards. Sometimes I eat a banana with my pre-workout meal if it's a high-carb day.

    If I'm strictly cutting I'll do the option number 2 for pre-workout and use whey and oats or sweet potato again for post-workout. I usually do pretty low carbs when I cut so I like to get the most nutrition out of them.
    Be a man. Be awesome at it. Be proud of it. Beyond the Barbell

    "Borris is correct. That sounds logical if you ask me."
    -galileo

  12. #11
    Hot as FCUK Shark's Avatar
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    I have always done basically the same thing when it comes to pre/post workout nutrition and have had good results.

    Before i lift I eat 4 scrambled eggs with olive oil (a bit of salt and pepper), one english muffin, and an 8oz glass of odwalla 100% orange juice. Protein, simple carbs, natural sugar, healthy fats. Regardless of wether or not I take a post workout shake I always feel great while I lift or do cardio, I have plenty of energy, and I have thus far yielded excellent results. When I bulk i ususally have a shake afterwards and a meal a little later (usually a turkey and mayo sandwich on whole wheat). If I am cutting I usually wait a bit and eat a sandwich.
    Last edited by Shark; 03-16-2005 at 11:20 AM.

  13. #12
    Do that voodoo that he do
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    Chris brings up the best point as far as I'm concerned:

    With proper use of pre-workout nutrition, people can use a lot more real food rather than shakes. Don't get me wrong, I like shakes. However, the benefits of micronutrients in real food can't be denied. The more real food one gets, the better off one is going to be.

    Shakes are good, but I like them in addition to food.
    Be a man. Be awesome at it. Be proud of it. Beyond the Barbell

    "Borris is correct. That sounds logical if you ask me."
    -galileo

  14. #13
    Senior Member smalls's Avatar
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    I have been using a 700 cals wieghtgainer shake with 3 cups of skim milk prior. Nothing during and a 700 calorie mix of whey, malto, and dextrose directly after training. Then solid food 1.5 hours later. For me it's just the best way to get in lots of calories around training.
    Diet is key, the calorie is king

    "Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be."
    --Abraham Lincoln

    "Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent.
    Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination
    alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'press on' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race."
    Calvin Coolidge (1872-1933)
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    "If you want to look abnormal you have to eat abnormal,lol."--ST

  15. #14
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borris
    Chris brings up the best point as far as I'm concerned:

    With proper use of pre-workout nutrition, people can use a lot more real food rather than shakes. Don't get me wrong, I like shakes. However, the benefits of micronutrients in real food can't be denied. The more real food one gets, the better off one is going to be.

    Shakes are good, but I like them in addition to food.
    Definitely a big bonus.

    Regardless of whatever other benefits it might have, I just feel better when I'm getting whole foods in.
    Vin Diesel has a fever.. and the only prescription is more cowbell.

    Budiak: That girl I maced
    Budiak: macked
    Budiak: heh maced
    Budiak: I wish

    ShmrckPmp5: a good thing people can't fire guns through the computer...your ass would have been shot years ago

    Y2A 47: youre smooth as hell
    Y2A 47: thats why you get outta tickets, and into panties

    galileo: you're a fucking beast and I hate you
    galileo: hate

    assgrabbers are never subtile, they will grabb ass whereever they go,public or not, I know the type, because I am one. - Rock

  16. #15
    Hot as FCUK Shark's Avatar
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    I always choose real food over a shake. Not that shakes aren't great but real food is the shiznit.

  17. #16
    Always Learning IZich's Avatar
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    what are your guys' opinions on nutrient intake schedules on off days? Do you eat the same amount of pfc, at identically positioned times of the day as a workout day?
    6'2" | 215 lbs

    B320 S315 D440 = 1075
    The Road to 1200
    I'm always open to suggestions and critique, so stop by and help a brother out!

    "Determination is the wake-up call to the human will." - TR

  18. #17
    Just watch me ... Built's Avatar
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    Okay, rip my diet apart. This is how today will work out, as planned out and entered into fitday.

    M1: 5 hard boiled egg whites with one yolk, tiny pat of butter, salt
    M2: ĺ cup cottage cheese, half an apple, level tablespoon natty PB
    M3: romaine, homemade dressing (olive oil, vinegar, spices), half avocado, 4 oz chicken breast
    M4: 4oz chicken breast, other half avocado, broccoli, small pat of butter.

    Afternoon snack: Other half apple, level tablespoon of natty PB

    2 hours later: workout (legs tonight)

    M5: whey shake with malto and dextrose (40g protein, 40g dex/malto), 5g creatine.
    (Iím considering doing half before, half after I work out)

    M6: steak, broccoli

    Supps include 10g fish oil daily, which I never count in my macronutrient count since I take Ďem every day and theyíre not optional. I trickle Ďem in through the day.

    Cals for today.

    Calories Eaten Today
    Source__grams__cals_%total_
    Total:__________2034
    Fat:_____88_____788__39%_
    __Sat:___22_____196__10%_
    __Poly:__13_____113___6%_
    __Mono:_35_____318__16%_
    Carbs:__100_____320__16%_
    __Fiber:_20________0___0%_
    Protein:_228______913__45%


    This is below maintenance cals of 2100-2200 per day. Iím insulin resistant (I was on Metformin, Iím not just SAYING Iím IR) and canít do low fat. Iím carb/calorie cycling, no extra or starchy carbs on non-lifting days (unless I do HIIT).

    My lower carb/calorie days go down to about 40-60g carb, a little lower protein, and about 1800-1900 calories.

    I sometimes do oatmeal/eggwhite/cottage cheese waffles instead of the dextrose/whey shake (this has roughly 40g each protein and carb) Iím not sure which way to go here, so Iím asking.

    Iíd prefer to do the waffles. If I do, should I have 'em with my afternoon snack (the apple and PB)? Or perhaps half in meal 4, half after I train?

    (I posted up the waffle recipe, by the way. Theyíre awesome!)

  19. #18
    System's BiAtch! _8_Ball's Avatar
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    As far as pre/post workout meals go this is my normal schedule...

    3:20pm - leave work

    4:15pm - Get home and take 1 scoop ON whey + banana or oatmeal or WW bread with jam.

    4:45pm - take animal pak

    5:15pm - Start workout

    6:00-6:15pm - 2 scoop whey + 1 scoop dextrose (40p / 35c)

    7:30-7:45pm - food usually low GI carbs and mean (chicken beef )

    8:45-9:00pm - Anabolic Milk from ON - Pre-Bed Casein shake...

    I've included the pre-bed shake for the last 2-3 weeks and I've actually seen a pretty good gains... (and I'm cutting... go figure... :-) )

    8

  20. #19
    System's BiAtch! _8_Ball's Avatar
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    Built - Are you on a cut?

  21. #20

  22. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by IZich
    what are your guys' opinions on nutrient intake schedules on off days? Do you eat the same amount of pfc, at identically positioned times of the day as a workout day?
    I consume very few carbs on off days. My body just doesn't respond well to carbs, and aside from a small amount to keep the brain operating efficiently I really see no use for them.

    Protein stays constant, the carbs are replaced with more fat.

  23. #22
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    My workout nutrition intake for what it's worth (just started doing this fairly recently, but I'm liking it a lot):

    2 hours before: 15 egg whites + 3 cups brown rice (if I have less time before training, say 1-1.5 hours, I knock off a few whites and a 1 cup of rice)

    Immediately before: 1 scoop whey

    During: 66g carbs worth of Gatorade

    Immediately after: 2 scoops whey

    An hour or so after: haven't got this one completely worked out yet...another protein + carb meal (whole food) would probably be best, but like I said above my body doesn't respond overly well to carbs, so sometimes I just go right back to a protein + fat meal here.

  24. #23
    Just watch me ... Built's Avatar
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    Okay, I'll eat the apple and PB earlier.

    Hmmm... so, a waffle an hour before as a snack (20g protein, 20g slow carb), cottage cheese and dextrose right after (40g protein, 40g carb) (sounds weird, but it's amazing with lime juice, in the blender, tastes like cheesecake AND the lime juice helps the carbs go in), and the other waffle when I get home, with steak and buttered broccoli a few hours after that might just do the trick.

    Thoughts?

  25. #24
    Hot as FCUK Shark's Avatar
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    Built, its hard to say. You've got a pretty good lay out there and honestly I think trial and error will get you where you want to be. Diet is such an individual thing. I have found personally that after my morning meal (posted above) I lift and have a sandwich for lunch. Then I pretty much stop eating carbs for the rest of the day. Doesn't matter if i'm lifting or not. My body loves to eat carbs (e.g. taste), but it just can't process them and I end up getting fat or stalling on weight loss.

    But I digress. As far as your diet is concerned I would put olive oil in your meal one to replace the butter. It took me a long time to do this as I love butter with eggs but I just can't negate the benefits of olive oil in ones diet. Other than that your food choices look ace!

  26. #25
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    What would make a good During Workout meal? How does 10-15 grams of BCAA mixed in a gallon of water looks like?

    Pre: Whey Protein Shake
    During: 10-15g BCAA
    Post: Casein Protein Shake w/ Dextrose


    Hows that? Some one shed some insight on during workout meal.
    Last edited by beastin v6; 03-16-2005 at 02:30 PM.

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