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Thread: Okay So back to The Baseball Roid-monkeys...

  1. #1
    Party of "No." Tryska's Avatar
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    Okay So back to The Baseball Roid-monkeys...

    and this time no partisan bs please.

    Do y'all think these hearings are a violation of the players civil liberties?


    I do. They aren't beholden to the government in any way, so why are thye being called in to talk to congress about their alleged drug use?

    If it wasn't for Jose's book, i doubt it would ever have found it's way on-radar.


    Do y'all think it's okay for them to do that?


    What if it were steroid abuse across the board? Would they call Arnie to speaks policy wonk-ese on steroid use? Anybody that ever competed at the Arnold Classic?

    i jsut am having a really tough time wrapping my head around this.


    And for those who go on about it being illegal, yes. use of a controlled substance is illegal. And it's for courts to pursue. Not Congress. Tis why we have a Legislative branch AND a Judicial branch.
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  2. #2
    Push powerlifting heathj's Avatar
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    I think at least they are going to forget about the past and just focus on the future, right? At least I hope so.

  3. #3
    Party of "No." Tryska's Avatar
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    what do you mean heath? you mean as far as the hearings go?
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    Go Heels! MixmasterNash's Avatar
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    heathj is correct. Congress is not going to try the players. They want to question them in order to set future policy. I think we should applaud them actually finding stuff out about something before writing laws about it.

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  5. #5
    Party of "No." Tryska's Avatar
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    right but doesn't questioning, then lead to the assumption that these guys would know about steroids? and they are getting this from what? Jose's book?


    did anyone being called pop a piss test, or get convicted for posession?
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  6. #6
    Senior Member shootermcgavin7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tryska
    and this time no partisan bs please.

    Do y'all think these hearings are a violation of the players civil liberties?


    I do. They aren't beholden to the government in any way, so why are thye being called in to talk to congress about their alleged drug use?
    I am, personally against the government interfering with people's private lives in any circumstance. If some guy up the street wants to use gear, or smoke pot, etc, etc, it doesn't infringe on my rights at all. That has always been my stance.

    However, Baseball agreed to congressional oversight in exchange for exemption from anti-trust laws, I think around 80 years or so ago.

    In fact, the only reason Bud Selig is showing up tomorrow is because Congress threatened to pull this exemption.

    So, baseball IS beholden to the government; and if Congress wants to yank them all in, then they're going to go.

    That said, if McGwire is using steroids currently, I personally don't have any problem with it.

  7. #7
    I want some crack! TBone4Eva's Avatar
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    Pfft, I bet half the players get up there and take the fifth. No real answers are going to come out of this. It's just Congress' way of show boating in front of the press.

    And no, it's not a violation of the player's civil liberties. You can be called into court for anything at any moment and you are required to appear. Some of these players are technically either criminal or witnesses to a crime so that's on them.
    Last edited by TBone4Eva; 03-16-2005 at 04:48 PM.
    The half-million citizens of the District of Columbia, like citizens of the fifty states, bear all of the obligations of American citizenship: they are required to obey the laws passed by Congress; they pay federal taxes; they serve in the military; and they fight and die in our wars. Yet they lack the most basic right that should accompany American citizenship—the right to full voting representation in Congress. This makes the United States the only nation in the world with a representative, democratic constitution that denies citizens of its capital representation in the national legislature. In fact, no fewer than 183 nations provide their citizens the type of representation citizens of Washington, DC are denied.

  8. #8
    putting in work Roark's Avatar
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    well

    in somewhat of a cross-reference to my point in the ss discussion

    the more people want the government to pay for things like healthcare, retirement, etc

    the more government is going to see the need to further invade the private lives of the citizenry

  9. #9
    Formerly Nick Hatfield SW's Avatar
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    Tryska, what would you suggest happen in the way of remedying the baseball "roid Monkey" problem? I'm just wondering what you think should happen, or should've happened.
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  10. #10
    II MrWebb78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superior_will
    Tryska, what would you suggest happen in the way of remedying the baseball "roid Monkey" problem? I'm just wondering what you think should happen, or should've happened.
    this is where I get upset. I am upset because of the roid infestation in my favorite sport.

    T is only upset because of government interaction(I assume).

    roids have there place in sports. In bodybuilding. IMO that is the only acceptable one.

    baseball's testing policy/punishment is a joke. and since this is a country that drills in people's minds "the children!", the less trouble for roids the more likely kids will experiment with them.
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  11. #11
    Wannabebig New Member HahnB's Avatar
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    Is it just me, or does anyone else think that everyone makes this issue much more epic than it really is.

  12. #12
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    i dont think any of you are comprehending why the government is stepping in. they are stepping in because they gave baseball permission to be a MONOLOPY. they allow there to not be another major competitive baseball league. because they are exempt from these antitrust laws, if the government discovers illegal activity they have the right to remove this exemption. this is nothing abnormal. GET OVER IT!!!!

  13. #13
    Go Heels! MixmasterNash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TBone4Eva
    Pfft, I bet half the players get up there and take the fifth. No real answers are going to come out of this. It's just Congress' way of show boating in front of the press.

    And no, it's not a violation of the player's civil liberties. You can be called into court for anything at any moment and you are required to appear. Some of these players are technically either criminal or witnesses to a crime so that's on them.
    They can't take the 5th because they aren't on trial. They can refuse to testify, and then they can be held in contempt. I REALLY hope that happens.

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  14. #14
    Senior Member shootermcgavin7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MixmasterNash
    They can't take the 5th because they aren't on trial. They can refuse to testify, and then they can be held in contempt. I REALLY hope that happens.

    Well, at least for Jose Canseco, the REAL trick is getting him to shut his mouth for 5 minutes...

  15. #15
    Proud Father Maki Riddington's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrWebb78

    roids have there place in sports. In bodybuilding. IMO that is the only acceptable one.
    Why? If they are going to make you bigger, faster, stronger and give you an edge, then why not? Everyone else does them, well that's the main concensus.
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    So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God's law; but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God--through Jesus Christ our Lord!"
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  16. #16
    bone crusher
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    just a political show. pfft

  17. #17
    I want some crack! TBone4Eva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MixmasterNash
    They can't take the 5th because they aren't on trial. They can refuse to testify, and then they can be held in contempt. I REALLY hope that happens.
    Yes, you can. You can take the fifth because it's an investigative proceeding and anything you say can be used against you. If you remember during the Enron hearings many of the executives hauled before Congress took the fifth.
    The half-million citizens of the District of Columbia, like citizens of the fifty states, bear all of the obligations of American citizenship: they are required to obey the laws passed by Congress; they pay federal taxes; they serve in the military; and they fight and die in our wars. Yet they lack the most basic right that should accompany American citizenship—the right to full voting representation in Congress. This makes the United States the only nation in the world with a representative, democratic constitution that denies citizens of its capital representation in the national legislature. In fact, no fewer than 183 nations provide their citizens the type of representation citizens of Washington, DC are denied.

  18. #18
    En botella whey! Max-Mex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maki Riddington
    Why? If they are going to make you bigger, faster, stronger and give you an edge, then why not? Everyone else does them, well that's the main concensus.

    Yea but if nobody does them, then consider what the results could be? Yes, steriods don't make player's skills better, but w/o drugs, it all boils down pure athleticism.
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  19. #19
    Proud Father Maki Riddington's Avatar
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    Ya, but you'll never have a level playing field. It's pointless to try to control it. No matter what anyone says or does, steroid use will always exsist in sports.
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    "Test all things; hold fast what is good.": 1 Thessalonians 5:21

    "I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do--this I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
    So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God's law; but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God--through Jesus Christ our Lord!"
    Romans 7:14-25

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  20. #20
    Go Heels! MixmasterNash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TBone4Eva
    Yes, you can. You can take the fifth because it's an investigative proceeding and anything you say can be used against you. If you remember during the Enron hearings many of the executives hauled before Congress took the fifth.
    If Congress had balls, and weren't ass ponies of the executive branch, and wanted to actually find out what happened, they could have held them in contempt. But hey, they didn't even try to prosecute Kissinger for killing a few million Asians, so I wouldn't expect them to do anything on this.

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  21. #21
    Wannabebig New Member HahnB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maki Riddington
    Ya, but you'll never have a level playing field. It's pointless to try to control it. No matter what anyone says or does, steroid use will always exsist in sports.
    Exactly.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by HahnB
    Is it just me, or does anyone else think that everyone makes this issue much more epic than it really is.
    Quote Originally Posted by Maki Riddington
    Ya, but you'll never have a level playing field. It's pointless to try to control it. No matter what anyone says or does, steroid use will always exsist in sports.
    :withstupi :withstupi :withstupi :withstupi :withstupi :withstupi :withstupi :withstupi

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by TBone4Eva
    Yes, you can. You can take the fifth because it's an investigative proceeding and anything you say can be used against you. If you remember during the Enron hearings many of the executives hauled before Congress took the fifth.

    this has already been discussed by most news people. most likely if they plead the fifth so they dont incriminate themselves, congress is going to grant them immunity. immunity means you cannot be punished for your testimony. jose canseco has already said he wont testify unless given immunity.

  24. #24
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    I still think it's a load of horse****.

    This is Congress trying to legislate the rules of sports. That's not their job.

    For those not following:

    Steroids are illegal primarily due to pressure from athletic groups. So we're basically saying that since professional sporting agencies can't/won't enforce drug testing (as if they even should), we'll just go ahead and outlaw an entire class of drugs and turn them into boogeymen.

    These hearings are only the latest emergence from this, and I don't like any of it.
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  25. #25
    MulletII - AKA Ninja Boner Gyno Rhino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MixmasterNash
    Kissinger for killing a few million Asians
    You say this like it's a BAD thing.
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