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Thread: Intentional overtraining

  1. #1
    Mouth o' the dirty south
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    Usually I train in a HIT style
    1st workout: Incline Bench, Bench, Pec Deck, Chins, Row, Pullovers
    2nd workout: Military Press, Machine Delt Press, BB curls, Preacher, Reverse CUrl, close-grip bench, pushdowns
    3rd: Squat, Leg Press, Leg Curl, SLDL, Standing Calves, Seated Calves, Abs

    All exercises are one set to failure, rest three days in between, my question is when trying to cut up, should you be training everyday, because I don't seem to be as vascular this cutting period than last ( do 40 min. cardio on rest days), I'm wondering if it might be from less volume
    Better to die on your feet than live on your knees. - some guy

    This above all, to thine own self be true. - Polonius (ironic, eh?)

  2. #2
    Wannabebig Member
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    How come you never read cyberpump articles?

    Beign with reading the articles at http://www.cyberpump.com/trainhard/
    particularly
    http://www.cyberpump.com/trainhard/cutting.html

    fyi, the benefit of cardio does not lie in burning calorie, its GH release from intense cardio that helps burn fat more than the actual calories burnt.
    Last edited by gary; 02-22-2001 at 02:52 PM.

  3. #3
    Porn Star YatesNightBlade's Avatar
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    Volume work in no way makes a difference when cutting. Aerobics and diet maniplulation ..... DO !!!!
    * * * * * * * * *
    Yates

    hard core n. 1 irreducible nucleus. 2 colloq. a the most committed members of a society


    'Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind'

  4. #4
    Senior Member Cackerot69's Avatar
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    well, there can be benefits to overtraining for short periods of time, but not for what you are looking to do.

  5. #5
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    I don't know where to begin here---

    Firstly, the definition of "overtraining" as used by traditional HIT philosophy is incorrect, for several reasons. Mike Mentzer seems to believe that anything done beyond the minimal threshold for growth is "overtraining." That's simply incorrect. Hypertrophy isn't an on/off switch; by not doing more training past that threshold, sure, you'll get there, but you're missing *so* much potential growth.

    Secondly, the exercise-stimulated hGH peak is *not* responsible for cardio's lipolytic effects. The peak in serum hGH after exercise is smaller than the regular daily peaks, and is now thought to have little effect, in and of itself, on physiological adaptations.

    Intense cardio, done in the form of interval training, does have added fat-burning effects in the post-exercise period. However, this comes from the heightened metabolic rate and the rather intense activation of triglyceride metabolism that this form of exercise causes.

    Volume while cutting--- there is extensive research from the Soviets dealing with the aerobic conditioning effects of certain forms of high-volume training. It essentially involves taking a moderate load for 8-12 reps for 5-10 sets, using rest periods no longer than 60 seconds. Even on the "smaller" exercises, this is taxing; done with squats or deadlifts, it would be a *very* effective workout for the cardiovascular system (FYI-- this is a very good general conditioning program for anyone in a strength-related sport; it's more "specific" to strength training than cardio stuff).

    PowerMan DL

  6. #6
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    Cardio done in the form of interval training you say? Cardio, done with, or without interval training will burn fat during a workout and will stimulate the metabolic rate for a period of time thereafter. You were wrong. Mike Mentzer believes that overtraining is a result of exercise overstepping the body's abillity to recover from that exercise before another training session has resumed. He is absolutely 100% correct. The Soviets, and any other high level programs are based around drug using athletes. This completely alters the training equation and makes the results have very little or no meaning for natural trainees. If you don't believe their athletes abuse drugs, then you are a fool.

  7. #7
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    Originally posted by chris mason
    Cardio done in the form of interval training you say? Cardio, done with, or without interval training will burn fat during a workout and will stimulate the metabolic rate for a period of time thereafter. You were wrong. Mike Mentzer believes that overtraining is a result of exercise overstepping the body's abillity to recover from that exercise before another training session has resumed. He is absolutely 100% correct. The Soviets, and any other high level programs are based around drug using athletes. This completely alters the training equation and makes the results have very little or no meaning for natural trainees. If you don't believe their athletes abuse drugs, then you are a fool.
    Go to a medical search site like PubMed and do a search for this paper:

    Tremblay A, Simoneau JA, Bouchard C. Metabolism 1994 Jul;43(7):814-8 Impact of exercise intensity on body fatness and skeletal muscle metabolism.

    The differences between interval training and endurance-style training are *quite* interesting-- most notably, the fact that interval trainees burned roughly half the calories during the training session, but over the 20 weeks of the study, the average interval trainee's skinfold summation decreased six times more than the endurance trainees. It has to do with the way the pathways of cellular energy are stimulated--- intervals push the body into anaerobic metabolism for a brief period, so some muscle glycogen is called upon to complete the exercise. However, while the percentage of fat being used is not as great, the absolute amount is much greater than with endurance-style cardio.

    As far as Mentzer's defintion of overtraining: the definition I gave came from the HIT digest not 5 weeks ago.

    For Soviet training principles-- they did use drugs in their programs, but only in the intial general conditioning phases. Contrary to popular belief, the Soviet training protocol did not call for steroids during the special prep and peaking phases of the training cycle, and in fact looked down on it. The stigma surrounding the steroid myths comes from the Eastern-bloc nations, which did NOT follow that policy. Another interesting note is that the Soviets used only very small dosages of steroids-- only enough to enhance natural hormonal function. If you'd actually bother to read about what went on, you might learn something instead of just regurgitating what's been told to you. The Soviets had, and still possess, very powerful and effective means of training for strength and sport.

    And Chris, on another note-- lose the attitude. I'm trying to keep this professional, but you're shooting off your mouth like an angry kid. When you can come at me with some real *evidence* to support your positions, you might have room for some cockiness-- but right now, you aren't impressing me. I've got piles of references AND practical experience supporting my position; you could at least bother to supply some evidence for YOURS before blatantly calling me wrong and insulting me personally.

    Yours in love,

    PowerMan DL

  8. #8
    Wannabebig Moron The Cobra's Avatar
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    Power, it's alright. Chris presents some decent information sometimes. Just have to sift through the -* Damn, you're just wrong. This is 100% proven! I'm correct. There is only one way to train! *-. Hehehe.. I like to hammer on Chris since we're at opposite ends of the training spectrum, but still, he's not a bad guy. Just kind of integrates his training principles with his innermost personality... Which always makes for interesting discussion strings..

    P.S. - Can't we all just get along? (Good Ole Rodney)

  9. #9
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    I agree with PowerMan.
    Vin Diesel has a fever.. and the only prescription is more cowbell.

    Budiak: That girl I maced
    Budiak: macked
    Budiak: heh maced
    Budiak: I wish

    ShmrckPmp5: a good thing people can't fire guns through the computer...your ass would have been shot years ago

    Y2A 47: youre smooth as hell
    Y2A 47: thats why you get outta tickets, and into panties

    galileo: you're a fucking beast and I hate you
    galileo: hate

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  10. #10
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    Man have I mellowed!

  11. #11
    bone crusher
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    you two need to start hating each other again

  12. #12
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    It was just like the WWF!
    Vin Diesel has a fever.. and the only prescription is more cowbell.

    Budiak: That girl I maced
    Budiak: macked
    Budiak: heh maced
    Budiak: I wish

    ShmrckPmp5: a good thing people can't fire guns through the computer...your ass would have been shot years ago

    Y2A 47: youre smooth as hell
    Y2A 47: thats why you get outta tickets, and into panties

    galileo: you're a fucking beast and I hate you
    galileo: hate

    assgrabbers are never subtile, they will grabb ass whereever they go,public or not, I know the type, because I am one. - Rock

  13. #13
    Mystic Eric
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    You mean the WWE

  14. #14
    Senior Member Kayak_boy's Avatar
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    I agree with Poweman on the subject of doping in the Soviet Union. From what I know, they weren't into using massive doses. The East Germans on the other hand were. I know of a female in my sport who was originally from East Germany but now races here in Australia who can't have kids because of the severe doses she took when living and competing in East Germany. The same athlete has gone on to win several World Champ and Olympic medals.

    but doping is part and parcel of sport nowadays, so we've just got to accept it.

  15. #15
    Mike Henley MonStar's Avatar
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    Damn relax guys, lets keep everything professional.

    MS

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