The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
    Wannabebig Member
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    Westside Barbell Deadlifting Training

    Does anyone do any deadlift variations on ME day? If so which? And on DE day does anyone do speed pulls after box squats? I'm just having a bit of trouble figuring out how much deadlifting work I should be doing. Thanks.
    "If you are afraid to fail, you will be afraid to succeed" - Louie Simmons

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  3. #2
    As I Am Paul Stagg's Avatar
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    I pull every 4th or 5th week on ME day. Just pulled on Monday.

    I like speed deads, but from what I can tell, they haven't really helped me much, other than letting me continue to improve form - then again, my issue with deadlifts is that I'm just not strong enough off the floor.

    You have to play around with it - it all depends on your individual needs, strengths, and weaknesses. I try to pull alot because my deadlift sucks. That might not be the right thing to do, but not deadlifting didn't help, either. It's all experimentation.
    Squats work better than supplements.
    "You know, if I thought like that, I'd never put more than one plate on the bar for anything, I'd never use bands or chains, I'd never squat to parallel or below, and I'd never let out the slightest grunt when I lift. At some point in your lifting career (assuming you're planning on getting reasonably strong and big), you're going to have to accept that most people think you are some kind of freak." -Sensei
    "You're wrong, and I have a completely irrelevant pubmed abstract that may or may not say so." - Belial
    I has a blog.
    I has a facebook.

  4. #3
    Fatass Powerlifter tholian8's Avatar
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    I'm switching from sumo to conventional right now so I am doing speed pulls and checking every few weeks with some max pulls. If I weren't making the switch, though, I wouldn't be doing much DL work at all.
    "The female of the species is more deadly than the male."

    My attempts at lifting heavy objects

    Current maxes:

    Squat 145 kg (320 lbs)
    Bench 67.5 kg (149 lbs)
    DL: 142.5 kg (314 lbs)

    ...oh, and I'm a girl.

  5. #4
    Wannabebig Member
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    Yea I was doing sumo deadlifts the past year, but I'm switching to conventional for a while to see how it goes. I'm going to try conventional deadlifts standing on 4 mats next ME day.
    "If you are afraid to fail, you will be afraid to succeed" - Louie Simmons

  6. #5
    SFW! drew's Avatar
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    I also have trouble pulling off the floor. I've been doing speed pulls and I do conventional DLs off a 7" platform on my ME day as an assistance. I haven't maxed on DL lately, probably next week. Or maybe this week if I get punchy.

    Stats: Age: 34 Weight: 205 Height: 5'6"
    Gym PRs: Squat:635 Bench:560 Deadlift:495
    Meet PRs: Squat:575 Bench:525 Deadlift:510 Total: 1605@220

  7. #6
    Banned KingJustin's Avatar
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    You guys still stick to speed squats on DE day, right? Do your speed pulls replace your ME exercise or what?

  8. #7
    As I Am Paul Stagg's Avatar
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    Yes, still squat on DE day.

    Do your 8-12 sets of 2 of box squats, then do 6-10 singles with 50-60% of your dealift max.
    Squats work better than supplements.
    "You know, if I thought like that, I'd never put more than one plate on the bar for anything, I'd never use bands or chains, I'd never squat to parallel or below, and I'd never let out the slightest grunt when I lift. At some point in your lifting career (assuming you're planning on getting reasonably strong and big), you're going to have to accept that most people think you are some kind of freak." -Sensei
    "You're wrong, and I have a completely irrelevant pubmed abstract that may or may not say so." - Belial
    I has a blog.
    I has a facebook.

  9. #8
    Wannabebig Member
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    Deeper and with bands

    Your platform idea may work, but I think it is actually too deep (may change your spine and hip position too much). One route I found successful was simply using 35 or 25# plates instead of 45's. Bar may look weird with 4 or 5 of those suckers on each side (or 6 or 7, I won't sell anyone short here), but you can still start from a slight depth without changing the body mechanics too much.

    I have hooks on my squat rack to which I can attach bands in such a way that will have some tension on the bottom, but a ungodly amount on top. Although lockout isn't your issue, it simply lets you explode off the ground with the accomodating resistance as you rise. I find it to be one of my favorite deadlift variations. Smaller plates combined with bands... heck I may go do some right now.
    Chip Conrad
    Bodytribefitness
    Sacramento, CA

  10. #9
    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
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    I love Westside, but I've had to make modifications to my training through the years. With my deadlift, I'm realizing that I just need to deadlift more.

    I know a lot of people will think that it is just common sense to improve your deadlift by deadlifting, but many, like me, fell in love w. the idea of the "No Deadlift Approach to Deadlifting". It's easy to do when you aren't built to deadlift and find yourself easily overtrained in the lift.

    I'm doing a lot more deadlifting now. Not necessarily heavy and not necessarily all just plain-old deadlifting, but deadlifting - every week. Most of my deadlifting in training is conventional, sumo, platform (3-5"), romanian deadlift, or platform romanian deadlifts (3-5").

  11. #10
    SFW! drew's Avatar
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    Sensei, I find that to be the best part of Westside. Just because a certain way works for a lot of people, you may find it doesn't work for you. Personally, I stick to the convention that heavy DLs should only be done every 6-8 weeks, but I still do Dimel DLs, platforms, and sumo (as well as speed pulls) nearly every week.

    What do you think has been the biggest benefit to your DL?

    Stats: Age: 34 Weight: 205 Height: 5'6"
    Gym PRs: Squat:635 Bench:560 Deadlift:495
    Meet PRs: Squat:575 Bench:525 Deadlift:510 Total: 1605@220

  12. #11
    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drew
    What do you think has been the biggest benefit to your DL?
    I'll have to get back to you on that Drew. I haven't had a meet since changing my training. My training numbers are coming around though, but I've never been able to DL in the gym anything close to what I do in meets.

  13. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by drew
    I still do Dimel DLs

    Are Dimel DL's where you incrementally lower the rack spot pins each successive workout, doing heavy partial pulls with one-notch greater ROM each workout? I read about this in a Louie Simmons article in PLUSA a long time ago. I've done about 2 real cycles this way. I think they're great. It might not "seem" as if doing partials is a good way of improving your DL (esp. if, like me, the initial pull is the sticking point), but actually it's magnificent. The amount of weight you use is much over 100%, and each workout you try to partial-pull as close to the same weight as the previous time (which was from a higher pin position). The goal I think would be to converge reaching "bottom" (no pins; full DL) at the same time you max or test a max single. (Each Dimel DL is just a set or two of a single max rep)

  14. #13
    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
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    Dimel deadlifts are basically speedy, high rep, romanian deadlift partials. Start at the top, keep back flat & butt back, lower to just above knee, explode up, repeat. There's is no pausing - it's meant to be an explosive movement that hammers the posterior chain.

  15. #14
    SFW! drew's Avatar
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    What Sensei said.

    I often do higher reps with Dimels, since the weight is generally low (I use about 40-50% of my max DL). Generally 3-5 sets of 8-10.

    Stats: Age: 34 Weight: 205 Height: 5'6"
    Gym PRs: Squat:635 Bench:560 Deadlift:495
    Meet PRs: Squat:575 Bench:525 Deadlift:510 Total: 1605@220

  16. #15
    As I Am Paul Stagg's Avatar
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    It's all about learning what works for you.

    I think I need to deadlift more than the old westide articles suggested (70%GMs, 20% squats, 10% deads). I'm more to 50% squat and 50% deads on ME days, and still including speed deads on ME days at times.

    I also think non-elite lifters are better served spending more time doing heavy basic stuff, and not focusing on some of the things that show up in WSB articles.
    Squats work better than supplements.
    "You know, if I thought like that, I'd never put more than one plate on the bar for anything, I'd never use bands or chains, I'd never squat to parallel or below, and I'd never let out the slightest grunt when I lift. At some point in your lifting career (assuming you're planning on getting reasonably strong and big), you're going to have to accept that most people think you are some kind of freak." -Sensei
    "You're wrong, and I have a completely irrelevant pubmed abstract that may or may not say so." - Belial
    I has a blog.
    I has a facebook.

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