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Thread: Ability to gain fat

  1. #1
    Senior Member RussianRocket's Avatar
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    Ability to gain fat

    I have little knowledge of diet and so forth but my question is this. If i am able to gain fat/weight this will benefit me in putting on some muscle, right? Recently i've noticed that i'm starting to put some fat on. First thing i though was, finally my metabolism is slowing down which can benefit me in shorter run.
    Milk is the best Supplement

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  2. #2
    Senior Member getfit's Avatar
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    how's your diet like?
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  3. #3
    Senior Member RussianRocket's Avatar
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    It's pretty clean so far, a lot of veggies/fruit whole grain breads, red meat. Overall very evently based i think, i drink a lot of juice because it's free from work. Thats aobut it.

    edit: oh yeah, MILK.
    Last edited by RussianRocket; 06-21-2005 at 05:53 PM.
    Milk is the best Supplement

    Well my friends think I'm ugly
    I got a masculine face - Tom Waits.

  4. #4
    Senior Member getfit's Avatar
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    you get in your good fats as well?
    You will soon see Getfit in OngII Flying Knee Thingys of Doom see if the feisty greek can survive the kicks of Steel Leg From Shaolin Soccer,Dim Mak(def touch) from ChungLee,and Flying Crane by Daniel-san-El Pietro

    Spray it with windex greek!-the famous El Pietro

    You be quiet or i'll clean and press your narrow francophone self-Callahan

    Lift for gains,not glory.Control your ego and the weight

    What a strong girl! This leads me to believe you can severly injure most of the male population-Nick Hatfield

    You're blazing white hot,anyone ever tell you that? Sometimes i think you have fingers faster then Superman when it comes to posts on WBB forums.
    Hot in terms of both speed and... well new hotness- Stash

    gain 50lbs-Anthony

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  6. #6
    Senior Member RussianRocket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by getfit
    you get in your good fats as well?
    not as many as i'd like but its getting there.

    The juice is free, so i MUST drink it.
    Milk is the best Supplement

    Well my friends think I'm ugly
    I got a masculine face - Tom Waits.

  7. #7
    Just watch me ... Built's Avatar
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    Well, if I was having trouble with fat gain, I'd be looking to eliminate things that might be contributing to this fat gain. Of the things you consume, fruit juice would be the first place I'd look to eliminate or reduce.

    Up to you.


  8. #8
    Senior Member RussianRocket's Avatar
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    i dont have a problem with fat as of now. I'm still pretty lean, but have gained some fat, which i think is good so far. We'll find out at the end of the summer.
    Milk is the best Supplement

    Well my friends think I'm ugly
    I got a masculine face - Tom Waits.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Manveet's Avatar
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    There isn't a single food source out there that will make you fat. Rather, you have keep your total calories in check. If juice can fit into your diet, then go for it. However, it is imperative that you have all other aspects of your diet in check (i.e enough protein, enough carbs and healthy fats).
    "It is often said, mainly by the "no-contests", that although there is no positive evidence for the existence of God, nor is there evidence against his existence. So it is best to keep an open mind and be agnostic. At first sight that seems an unassailable position, at least in the weak sense of Pascal's wager. But on second thought it seems a cop-out, because the same could be said of Father Christmas and tooth fairies. There may be fairies at the bottom of the garden. There is no evidence for it, but you can't prove that there aren't any, so shouldn't we be agnostic with respect to fairies?"

    Richard Dawkins


    "Out of all of the sects in the world, we notice an uncanny coincidence: the overwhelming majority just happen to choose the one that their parents belong to. Not the sect that has the best evidence in its favour, the best miracles, the best moral code, the best cathedral, the best stained glass, the best music: when it comes to choosing from the smorgasbord of available religions, their potential virtues seem to count for nothing, compared to the matter of heredity. This is an unmistakable fact; nobody could seriously deny it. Yet people with full knowledge of the arbitrary nature of this heredity, somehow manage to go on believing in their religion, often with such fanaticism that they are prepared to murder people who follow a different one."


    Richard Dawkins


    "Bah. You know I hate poor people."

    Paul Stagg

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  11. #11
    Senior Member Canadian Crippler's Avatar
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    I think what he's saying is that when calories out > calories in, you will not gain fat whether these calories are from fructose or from protein.
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  13. #13
    Senior Member Manveet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Built
    Manveet, are you suggesting that you cannot affect partioning by the dietary choices you make?
    Sure you can, but the effect will be negligible anyway.
    "It is often said, mainly by the "no-contests", that although there is no positive evidence for the existence of God, nor is there evidence against his existence. So it is best to keep an open mind and be agnostic. At first sight that seems an unassailable position, at least in the weak sense of Pascal's wager. But on second thought it seems a cop-out, because the same could be said of Father Christmas and tooth fairies. There may be fairies at the bottom of the garden. There is no evidence for it, but you can't prove that there aren't any, so shouldn't we be agnostic with respect to fairies?"

    Richard Dawkins


    "Out of all of the sects in the world, we notice an uncanny coincidence: the overwhelming majority just happen to choose the one that their parents belong to. Not the sect that has the best evidence in its favour, the best miracles, the best moral code, the best cathedral, the best stained glass, the best music: when it comes to choosing from the smorgasbord of available religions, their potential virtues seem to count for nothing, compared to the matter of heredity. This is an unmistakable fact; nobody could seriously deny it. Yet people with full knowledge of the arbitrary nature of this heredity, somehow manage to go on believing in their religion, often with such fanaticism that they are prepared to murder people who follow a different one."


    Richard Dawkins


    "Bah. You know I hate poor people."

    Paul Stagg

  14. #14
    Senior Member Manveet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Built
    Sounds like a fairly nave approach.
    I don't think it's a naive approach at all. In fact, it's probably a more sane, and intelligent approach to dieting.
    "It is often said, mainly by the "no-contests", that although there is no positive evidence for the existence of God, nor is there evidence against his existence. So it is best to keep an open mind and be agnostic. At first sight that seems an unassailable position, at least in the weak sense of Pascal's wager. But on second thought it seems a cop-out, because the same could be said of Father Christmas and tooth fairies. There may be fairies at the bottom of the garden. There is no evidence for it, but you can't prove that there aren't any, so shouldn't we be agnostic with respect to fairies?"

    Richard Dawkins


    "Out of all of the sects in the world, we notice an uncanny coincidence: the overwhelming majority just happen to choose the one that their parents belong to. Not the sect that has the best evidence in its favour, the best miracles, the best moral code, the best cathedral, the best stained glass, the best music: when it comes to choosing from the smorgasbord of available religions, their potential virtues seem to count for nothing, compared to the matter of heredity. This is an unmistakable fact; nobody could seriously deny it. Yet people with full knowledge of the arbitrary nature of this heredity, somehow manage to go on believing in their religion, often with such fanaticism that they are prepared to murder people who follow a different one."


    Richard Dawkins


    "Bah. You know I hate poor people."

    Paul Stagg

  15. #15
    Just watch me ... Built's Avatar
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    Ever had a problem with fat gain, Manveet?

    Know anybody who's really had to struggle with this this problem (I don't mean lazy whiners, I mean people who fight like hell to get it off, and fail)?

    And have you studied any of the literature on insulin resistance and the connection between it and high fructose consumption?

    Just out of curiosity.

  16. #16
    Senior Member Manveet's Avatar
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    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/art...on/cal_cal.php

    "I want to mention that relatively fewer studies have been done comparing different sources of carbohdyrates or fat. There are studies looking at the impact of sucrose (table sugar) vs. starch within the context of strictly controlled caloric intakes and they usually show no difference. That is, given an identical caloric intake, the source of the carbohydrates shows minimal differences. Similar studies have been done with dietary fat, typically showing similarly small differences. This is especially true when calories are restricted. "

    I'm too lazy to go look up the studies.

    *edit*

    We've also already had a long thread on a similiar topic.

    http://www.wannabebigforums.com/show...ite+flour+coke
    Last edited by Manveet; 06-22-2005 at 03:35 PM.
    "It is often said, mainly by the "no-contests", that although there is no positive evidence for the existence of God, nor is there evidence against his existence. So it is best to keep an open mind and be agnostic. At first sight that seems an unassailable position, at least in the weak sense of Pascal's wager. But on second thought it seems a cop-out, because the same could be said of Father Christmas and tooth fairies. There may be fairies at the bottom of the garden. There is no evidence for it, but you can't prove that there aren't any, so shouldn't we be agnostic with respect to fairies?"

    Richard Dawkins


    "Out of all of the sects in the world, we notice an uncanny coincidence: the overwhelming majority just happen to choose the one that their parents belong to. Not the sect that has the best evidence in its favour, the best miracles, the best moral code, the best cathedral, the best stained glass, the best music: when it comes to choosing from the smorgasbord of available religions, their potential virtues seem to count for nothing, compared to the matter of heredity. This is an unmistakable fact; nobody could seriously deny it. Yet people with full knowledge of the arbitrary nature of this heredity, somehow manage to go on believing in their religion, often with such fanaticism that they are prepared to murder people who follow a different one."


    Richard Dawkins


    "Bah. You know I hate poor people."

    Paul Stagg

  17. #17
    Senior Member Vapour Trails's Avatar
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    I'm going to agree with the above. There is far too much fussing about where a calorie comes from. In the end, its the total consumed vs. total expended over a long duration that determines whether you are 30% bf or 5%. The foods that we choose to make up our 3500 daily calories or 5000 daily calories or whatever quantity are of minor importance (assuming adequate protein intake).
    That's a picture of Scarlett Johansson.

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    Personally, I think the total consumed vs. total expended generally applies when you hit equilibrium or close to it (i.e. maintenance eating for a long period of time). When you are significantly over or under maintenance, ratios matter. For example, over eating fat for a few days will make you gain more fat than over-eating carbs or protein for a few days. Under-eating and not getting enough protein will also be detrimental and different from eating a lot of protein, and less of the other two. So in general, when you're not in equilibrium, ratios matter. When at equilibrium, it really makes no difference IMO.

  19. #19
    Back in business WBBIRL's Avatar
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    @Spanky

    So your suggesting that if your at maintance calories, i could get 70% from fat and 15% from carbs and proteins and it wouldnt matter????

    @Manveet

    That quote you posted makes absoluetly no sense... I dont think anyone was arguing that the source of carbs or fats was the problem, fact is your still getting them. Builts body doesnt take well to carbohydrates.... they spike appetite so she uses more fats.

    In general, Ill agree that calories are the key. You can't eat 5k cals a day if they only come from protein, your body will still store the extra as fat.... no matter how you get the cals. I try to keep carbs as the lowest ratio because I feel they are the most nutrient worthless form of caloires... their fast energy but dont help your body as much as protein or good fats would. Im not really sure but I think they only bad fats are the trans fats.

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    @Spanky

    So your suggesting that if your at maintance calories, i could get 70% from fat and 15% from carbs and proteins and it wouldnt matter????
    that's right. why would it matter? if u'r at equilibrium then u'r at equilibrium. why would it matter?? as long as you're not avoiding a macro, it should be fine. can you explain why it wouldn't be?

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  22. #22
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    is that question directed towards me? i was referring to maintenance eating, not bulking. as i said earlier, when eating hyper or hypocaloric, ratios DO matter

  23. #23
    Senior Member Manveet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Built
    So there's no such thing as a clean bulk, then?



    Quote Originally Posted by Holto
    the bottom line is gaining fat is determined by the quantity of calories not the quality

    we eat clean to maximize the nutritive value of our food, not because clean food is magic

    ie:

    clean bulk VS dirty bulk

    the real difference is in the number of calories we eat above maintenance
    I don't think Holto will mind that I borrowed one of his quotes
    "It is often said, mainly by the "no-contests", that although there is no positive evidence for the existence of God, nor is there evidence against his existence. So it is best to keep an open mind and be agnostic. At first sight that seems an unassailable position, at least in the weak sense of Pascal's wager. But on second thought it seems a cop-out, because the same could be said of Father Christmas and tooth fairies. There may be fairies at the bottom of the garden. There is no evidence for it, but you can't prove that there aren't any, so shouldn't we be agnostic with respect to fairies?"

    Richard Dawkins


    "Out of all of the sects in the world, we notice an uncanny coincidence: the overwhelming majority just happen to choose the one that their parents belong to. Not the sect that has the best evidence in its favour, the best miracles, the best moral code, the best cathedral, the best stained glass, the best music: when it comes to choosing from the smorgasbord of available religions, their potential virtues seem to count for nothing, compared to the matter of heredity. This is an unmistakable fact; nobody could seriously deny it. Yet people with full knowledge of the arbitrary nature of this heredity, somehow manage to go on believing in their religion, often with such fanaticism that they are prepared to murder people who follow a different one."


    Richard Dawkins


    "Bah. You know I hate poor people."

    Paul Stagg

  24. #24
    Senior Member Manveet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WBBIRL
    ?

    @Manveet

    That quote you posted makes absoluetly no sense... I dont think anyone was arguing that the source of carbs or fats was the problem, fact is your still getting them. Builts body doesnt take well to carbohydrates.... they spike appetite so she uses more fats.

    In general, Ill agree that calories are the key. You can't eat 5k cals a day if they only come from protein, your body will still store the extra as fat.... no matter how you get the cals. I try to keep carbs as the lowest ratio because I feel they are the most nutrient worthless form of caloires... their fast energy but dont help your body as much as protein or good fats would. Im not really sure but I think they only bad fats are the trans fats.
    Built made a reference to fructose and fat gain. I am assuming that she was implying that high GI carbs increase fat storage, so they should be avoided. This is actually a myth. Maybe if I have some time I can find the studies Lyle referenced in that quote above.
    "It is often said, mainly by the "no-contests", that although there is no positive evidence for the existence of God, nor is there evidence against his existence. So it is best to keep an open mind and be agnostic. At first sight that seems an unassailable position, at least in the weak sense of Pascal's wager. But on second thought it seems a cop-out, because the same could be said of Father Christmas and tooth fairies. There may be fairies at the bottom of the garden. There is no evidence for it, but you can't prove that there aren't any, so shouldn't we be agnostic with respect to fairies?"

    Richard Dawkins


    "Out of all of the sects in the world, we notice an uncanny coincidence: the overwhelming majority just happen to choose the one that their parents belong to. Not the sect that has the best evidence in its favour, the best miracles, the best moral code, the best cathedral, the best stained glass, the best music: when it comes to choosing from the smorgasbord of available religions, their potential virtues seem to count for nothing, compared to the matter of heredity. This is an unmistakable fact; nobody could seriously deny it. Yet people with full knowledge of the arbitrary nature of this heredity, somehow manage to go on believing in their religion, often with such fanaticism that they are prepared to murder people who follow a different one."


    Richard Dawkins


    "Bah. You know I hate poor people."

    Paul Stagg

  25. #25
    Just watch me ... Built's Avatar
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    Fructose isn't a high GI carb.

    The issue with fructose is in it's relationship to increasing triglycerides, which, in turn, is linked with insulin resistance.

    Having lived through this particular nightmare (ie high tris and IR), I'm necessarily interested in research relating to this link, which has been established in animals and which is ongoing with humans.

    http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/2/1/5
    http://hyper.ahajournals.org/cgi/con...tract/23/4/456

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