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  1. #1
    Banned Reinier's Avatar
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    Junior Lifting Risks

    Junior Lifting Risks

    I turn 16 the 5th of march.
    I had a very long conversation with my gym trainer today about how he feels i shouldn`t lift the way i do.

    He thinks my form and technique are all good, but he doesn`t like the way i train to failure after 8-10 reps, with progression as goal.
    He says im too young and when your still growing this will cause damage to tendons and joints, giving me complaints in the long run.

    I have known about these stories for a long time, but i thought they were only true when you use anabolic steroids too soon or have bad form or do something else wrong. I still believe the latter is true.
    i think you will agree but i want to convince him. its not like hes going to make me stop lifting in the gym, but hes made it pretty clear he doesn`t like me training in this way and he seemed very serious.

    So i was thinking, Arnold Schwarzenegger was really really big and strong already when he was around my age, now hes closing in on 60 years age. He has never had any problems has he? Same goes for for instance Shawn Ray and many other bodybuilders.

    Another employee in my gym was deadlifting 420 lbs when he was my age.
    He never had any problems either.

    I want the technical information and details about any risks in natural bodybuilding in adolescence, with correct form.

    i dont think there are many, but this trainer is convinced there are.
    Please tell me what you think, and if you can, prove your points and/or give me some referances.

    I want to go on, my lifts arent that big at all and i want to continue but how do i convince him? Its not like hes just gonna take my word on it when i say "thats not true" I`m 15 years old and kind of new to lifting, hes 28 and has an education in it.

  2. #2
    Push powerlifting heathj's Avatar
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    Who cares what he thinks? How is he going to stop you from lifting?

  3. #3
    Banned Reinier's Avatar
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    yes but i want to learn about this myself, i want to know just why he is wrong just how these things work.

  4. #4
    Soon to be lean... Joe Black's Avatar
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    bump for reiner.

    I am not sure of any proven detremental effects of lifting at your age but if it was me I would train anyhoo...

    I am sure someone else will help you a little more than me lol
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  5. #5
    is no more. Orange357's Avatar
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    Ask him what he suggests you do.. and see if he trys to get you to pay him to train you..if he does well i wouldnt think hes legit..
    ...watch me reap of what I sow....

    and BOOM goes the dynomite!

  6. #6
    Senior Member Accipiter's Avatar
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    good idea 357, I bet he is

  7. #7
    Banned Reinier's Avatar
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    what he wants me to do is train 3 sets of 18 reps for all exercises, and stop doing leg presses or squats.


    If you ask me, this is poop

  8. #8
    . Delphi's Avatar
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    monkey poop.

    Just liftt.

  9. #9
    3:16
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    ignore him.
    For us brits/aussie when at school we all played rugby which is far more dangerous than weight lifting for injuries.
    As injuries go weightlifitng is no where the top of the list.
    squaitng is a normal movemnet. I squat three times a day as i go the tiolet and use the same movement. So does he advise to go for a poo by not using the tiolet?
    my exprience - joined gym 10 years ago, 6 1/2 years hard weight training exprience.

  10. #10
    O.K....not really mesmall's Avatar
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    Ask to see his source of information.....
    " Eat to grow, Progression to get stronger " - mesmall

  11. #11
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    I think the trainer is right, except for the leg presses. You should be doing higher reps with lower weights at age 15. Your tendons and everything are still growing and you can progress with the higher reps, just not as fast. All the gyms in my town dont even let people your age into them. In the Body For Life book, (#1 Bestseller), Bill Philips talks about this issue and he does not recomend really heavy weights for people your age. He does not cite scientific studies, just his opinion. Cogratulations on having the correct form though, that goes a long ways. Just my opinion, but I think the trainer is correct and you should hold off on the hard-core stuff at least until you turn 16 and a half, and maybe 17.

  12. #12
    Powerlifting Stoner pastdoubt's Avatar
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    I have never heard of anyone having tendon problems from lifting at age 15, when I was 15 my routine looked something like this thanks to our highschool weight training coach and joe weider BS:

    Monday - Chest, Triceps, Shoulders, Back, Biceps
    Tuesday - Legs, Abs

    Thursday - repeat Monday
    Friday - repeat Tuesday

    For each muscle group I did 2 exercises and for each of these exercises I did 5 sets of 10, 8, 6, 4, 2 reps, which equates to 10 sets per body part, up to 5 body parts per workout, hit twice per weak. I have no tendon problems, knee problems, or joint problems and am approaching 18 here in about 6 months. The only thing I wish I had done is maybe try progressing a little slower, b/c my left side is much weaker than my right, I think due to poor form and trying to lift too heavy. But that has nothing to do with this thread anyway.

  13. #13
    Gaglione Strength Chris Rodgers's Avatar
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    Let me say this. I saw my "little" cousin last night and he is 14 and playing football for school. They just started them on a lifting program. This kid is almost as big as my uncle already and he is way freakin bigger than me. I don't think he has to worry about stunting any growth or damaging anything. As long as the trainee is using proper form and working within their limits, I see no dangers of lifting at 14-15 as compared to 16-17.
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    @165- 680 SQ 380 BE 540 DL.....1555 total
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  14. #14
    Banned Reinier's Avatar
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    well i kinda knew what all of you would say, i guess its just still a kind of controversial thing. how many of the people who are like 40 yr old now were lifting in their teens? almost none. i guess you cant really know yet. but well my lifts arent that big yet, i use proper form and ill be alright. also im cutting this march, so then my lifts will probably not go up too much and by the time ill bulk again ill be more like 16 1/2 yr old.

  15. #15
    PR blaster!
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    Originally posted by Reinier
    what he wants me to do is train 3 sets of 18 reps for all exercises, and stop doing leg presses or squats.


    If you ask me, this is poop
    hahahahah, what an ass. 18 reps....

  16. #16
    MA's Bionic Creation syntekz's Avatar
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    I think you should be fine. I think it becomes a problem when you are talking about someone who hasn't began puberty, or who hasn't gone through growth sperts, etc.

    For most guys, by the age of 15 or 16 this has already occurred.

  17. #17
    Proud Father Maki Riddington's Avatar
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    Here is an article with some research stating that lifting weights will not do any harm to your body if you follow certain guidelines.

    Just to throw in some personal experience. I have been training a 14 year old for the last 3 months and in this time I have slapped on 12 pounds of muscle on him. I rarely train him to failure, all I do is use progressive overload.
    I insist that his form and technique is dead on and that he pay special attention to this area.


    Weight Training For Kids

    Proper form, appropriate equipment and adequate supervision can help kids who
    are able-bodied and those who have disabilities reap the benefits of weight
    training

    By Mike Le Postollec

    (Editor's Note: While current research shows that a properly supervised
    weight training can increase strength among even prepubescent kids, lifting
    is typically a recreational activity for this population. For older adults
    who're subject to muscle wasting, however, weight training could be necessary
    just to maintain their current level of function. To learn about the current
    research on geriatrics and how to structure a weight training program for
    older adults, read "Pulling Their Own Weight" in the March 26, 2001, print
    version of ADVANCE).

    Among physical therapists and other health care practitioners, conventional
    wisdom was that children and weight-training don't mix. After all, kids in
    their pubescent and prepubescent years have not yet reached physical
    maturation, and damage to their growth plates could potentially impact
    long-term development. Add in the fact that many in the medical community
    doubted that pre-adolescent boys and girls have the circulating hormones to
    benefit from strength training, and the perceived risks of working out seemed
    to outweigh the potential benefits.

    "Part of it was that [the medical community] thought young kids wouldn't
    benefit from weightlifting, and the other part was that some thought it could
    be dangerous", explained Steven Tippett, MS, PT, SCS, ATC, professor at
    Bradley University, Peoria, IL, and president of the Sports Pediatric Special
    Interest Group, part of the APTA's Sports Physical Therapy Section. "And
    because of the danger issue, it was really tough to do a study on the effects
    of weightlifting on children. [The medical community] thought that the
    possible risks are not worth the information you could gain."

    Since that time, however, a number of published studies have indicated that
    an appropriate weight training program can not only be beneficial for
    prepubescent children, but that with appropriate equipment and adequate
    supervision, kids in such programs run minimal health risks.

    Weight Training Research

    For example, in 1986 Tippett was involved in a seminal study that assessed
    the physical benefits of strength training among prepubertal males. In the
    study, 16 boys with an average age of 8 years participated in a closely
    supervised, 14-week strength training study, consisting of three 45-minute
    sessions of concentric work using hydraulic resistance equipment each week.
    Ten control subjects did not strength train but did participate in sports
    activities and normal ADLs. Results indicated that the strength training
    subjects experienced significant increases in isokinetic strength,
    flexibility, vertical jump and maximum oxygen consumption. Musculoskeletal
    scintigraphy revealed no evidence of damage to epiphyses, bone or muscle, and
    only one strength training injury was reported.(1)

    Other studies have mirrored these results among able-bodied and disabled
    populations. Researchers at the University of Virginia, Charlottesville,
    found that 14 ambulatory children with spastic diplegia showed significantly
    increased strength in the quadriceps and at all three angles of knee flexion
    following a six-week weight training program.(2) Boys and girls who
    participated in twice-weekly sessions of resistance training for eight weeks
    showed significant strength increases in leg extension and chest press
    exercises, particularly those who completed high-repetition, low-weight
    workouts.(3) Yet another study showed that a moderate intensity, progressive
    resistance training program can be an effective part of a multidisciplinary
    weight management program for obese pre-adolescent children. (4)

    These and other studies have shown that prepubescent children can benefit
    from a weight training program, but equally significant is that research
    suggests such programs are relatively safe. "What it comes down to is good
    supervision, appropriate equipment and stressing proper form", Tippett
    explained. "Those [points] are really the heart and soul of position
    statements on kids and weight training made by the American Academy of
    Pediatrics and other organizations."

    Designing a Program

    That's not to say that weight training is appropriate for children of any
    age, and Tippett noted that kids should not begin lifting weights until their
    motor skills are developed to the point where they are able to follow
    supervisors' instructions and maintain proper form. "That's not to say that
    they're too young to reap the benefits of exercise—strengthening,
    flexibility and endurance", he said. "But programs are typically geared
    toward developing gross motor skills [through] activities like kicking,
    swimming or climbing." Furthermore, while weight training is appropriate for
    younger kids, competitive power lifting and weightlifting based on one
    repetition maximums should be put off until post-puberty when the bones are
    nearing skeletal maturity, usually at the tail end of kids' high school
    experience.

    Instead, Tippett recommended a high-repetition, low-weight program that
    focuses on the major muscle groups. "Adults traditionally work out at eight
    to 10 to 12 repetitions [per exercise], and that's usually based on a one
    repetition maximum; you do a maximum lift, and then work out at 'X'
    percentage of that weight", the PT explained. "But we discourage kids from
    one rep maximums, so I'll typically have them aim for a weight where they
    will be fatigued but still maintain appropriate form while completing three
    sets of 15 to 20 repetitions." Typically done three times per week, a
    well-rounded weight training program usually includes:

    Bench Press
    Military Press
    Biceps and Triceps Curls
    Leg Press
    Squats
    Knee Extensions
    Knee Curls

    These exercises should be part of a global fitness program, including
    flexibility and cardiovascular exercise, both aerobic and anaerobic. And when
    structuring a program to a younger population, it's important to include some
    'free play' activities (soccer, basketball, etc.) to help build balance,
    coordination and body-awareness.

    Tippett added that the benefits of this kind of training program aren't
    limited to the able-bodied-kids with disabilities could also benefit. "[The
    medical community] used to think that abnormal muscle tone was a
    contraindication to weight training, but there's a decent amount of
    literature that shows that weight training for children with disabilities can
    be both advantageous and safe", he said. "And this is an area where PTs can
    really shine, because ATCs and other professionals don't have our training to
    effectively deal with issues in this population."

    For example, PTs who treat kids with disabilities may need to design a
    program with exercises that can be performed with limited range of motion,
    and frequent measurements of heart rate and blood pressure are particularly
    important when working with kids who have cardiopulmonary or respiratory
    conditions. The key, said Tippett, is for PTs to contact the child's
    physician to discuss any medical concerns before launching a program. "But as
    long as kids are medically stable from a cardiovascular standpoint, have a
    musculoskeletal system that's intact and are able to comprehend directions,
    weight training programs are OK", he said.

    Getting Involved

    Unfortunately, few manufacturers provide exercise equipment designed for
    children, and even fewer gyms and exercise facilities are properly equipped,
    much less accessible, to this population. For this reason, Tippett stressed
    the need for more PTs to get involved with universities and organizations to
    meet this growing need. Although physical therapists are already actively
    involved in structuring exercise programs for patients with limiting
    conditions, bringing these services to the community at large could be the
    next step.

    "For example, Bradley University, in conjunction with Easter Seals UCP,
    helped develop a workout facility in Peoria with the appropriate equipment in
    an accessible facility", said Tippett. "I think this is an area that's wide
    open for PTs, especially if they work with a large rehab institution or a
    university that has experience in disabled sports."

    References

    1. Weltman, A., et al. (1986). The effects of hydraulic resistance strength
    training in pre-pubertal males. Med Sci Sports Exerc, 18(6): 629-638.

    2. Damiano, D.L., et al. (1995). Muscle response to heavy resistance
    exercise in children with spastic cerebral palsy. Dev Med Child Neurol,
    37(8): 731-739.

    3. Faigenbaum, A.D., et al. (1999). The effects of different resistance
    training protocols on muscular strength and endurance development in
    children. Pediatrics, 104(1): e5.

    4. Sothern, M.S, et al. (1999). Inclusion of resistance exercise in a
    multidisciplinary outpatient treatment program for preadolescent obese
    children. South Med J, 92(6): 585-592.

    Mike Le Postollec is on staff at ADVANCE and can be reached at
    mlepostollec@m...
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    So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God's law; but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God--through Jesus Christ our Lord!"
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  18. #18
    3:16
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    Originally posted by Reinier
    well i kinda knew what all of you would say, i guess its just still a kind of controversial thing. how many of the people who are like 40 yr old now were lifting in their teens? almost none. i guess you cant really know yet. but well my lifts arent that big yet, i use proper form and ill be alright. also im cutting this march, so then my lifts will probably not go up too much and by the time ill bulk again ill be more like 16 1/2 yr old.
    there are lots of people who train in there 40's and have trained since there teens, however most also play a competive sport as well so are likely to have injuries from that. their training is desinged for that sport as well.

    In the uk at school we do
    Swimming - lots of very powerful movemnets when sprinting.
    Atheltics - again sprinting, so lots of very explosive movement.
    Rugby - require a lot of brute force and explosive movements.

    we did not do weights, but they require lots of explosives movements, the muscle,tendons etc will not know if i am driving a oppenet(rugby, american footbal(americans)) or sqauting.
    Prop in rugby is a similar movemnt to squat, which you drive with the same intensity as a 1RM movement. those people in the hut,hut american football line probably do a similar technique requiring lots of force. So lets stop children doing these sports then. Using the same logic that syas weight lifting is bad.


    Another angle -

    Aneroxia and other eating disorders and becomin more prevelent in children especailly females, with a girl in the new suffering from aneroxia at 6.
    Now all the cause of aneroxia are not known. but if people feel fat than are more likely to turn to anorexia. weightlifitng is known to increase body image self confidence. therefore children who train are less likely to be anorexic. Anorexia prevents full growth and prematurely close bone growth in children.
    (I base this on theory that I have just hyposthised - may not be true)

    So my question is which is the greater bad (if you beleive weight training stunts growth(I do not think it does). weights Versus anorexia?
    my exprience - joined gym 10 years ago, 6 1/2 years hard weight training exprience.

  19. #19
    Banned Reinier's Avatar
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    where did the anorexia come from all of a sudden?

    I dont have no eating disorders.

  20. #20
    is no more. Orange357's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Reinier
    where did the anorexia come from all of a sudden?

    I dont have no eating disorders.
    anorexia is from low self confiedences weight training usually boosts confidence etc...
    ...watch me reap of what I sow....

    and BOOM goes the dynomite!

  21. #21
    3:16
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    Originally posted by Reinier
    where did the anorexia come from all of a sudden?

    I dont have no eating disorders.
    If you did have a eating disorder it would be the elast of your disorders from comments i have read baout you.lol

    a activity may have a risk. A article will get published telling people about the risk. Then poeple do not do that activity due to the risk they were told about. However this risk is only a small risk and by not doing it, you will run the risk of greater risk.
    (i want that hard to understand award in the WWB awards.lol)

    A example of this is in america.

    When the running crazy started in america. The incidence of bad knees (a activity may have a risk)went up a lot. So knee doctors warned poeple of the risks(A article will get published telling people about the risk). people stoped running as worrying about there kness(Then poeple do not do that activity due to the risk they were told about). However what they where not told was that the rate of heart attacks was decreased when they started running.(However this risk is only a small risk and by not doing it, you will run the risk of greater risk.)
    See it does make sense after all. If you were on my intellectual wave length you would understand all my comments.lol
    Which do you prefer bad knees or bad heart?
    which do you prefer stunted growth or anorexia?

    reiner you have to extrapolate a bit.
    Last edited by body; 12-17-2001 at 03:23 PM.
    my exprience - joined gym 10 years ago, 6 1/2 years hard weight training exprience.

  22. #22
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    Originally posted by body
    If you were on my intellectual wave length you would understand all my comments.
    Let's change the station.
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