There seems to be two opposing theories, when it comes to these two muscle groups. The first theory seems to suggest that these muscles, because of their very nature, can and should be worked more frequently. Others seem to theorize that they're no different, and should only be worked as frequently as any other group. I was wondering what the prevailing wisdom around here was. Thanks.
They're no different than any other muscle.. 1-2 per week depending on your routine.
I think calves are often overtrained. Of course I wish I had bigger calves but I'm trying to be patient and not overtrain them.
Calves are a personal thing. Some people are blessed with calves that respond well to resistance, and some are not.
I am not. My calves do not grow unless I put my squat max+ on my back and rep out on calve raises on the round metal tube of my bench as tears mix with sweat and slowly glide down my clenching jaw. 2-3 times a week depending on when the pain subsides. I work my abs like any other muscle.
i do 3 sets of 70 crunches nightly............... would i be overtraining my abs?Originally Posted by Bravo
for calfs i do calf raises maybe 3 times a week increases the weight every week
Do you do 70 reps with your biceps? I dont know if you are overtraining them, but try 3 sets of 15 weighted decline crunches and see how that feels.Originally Posted by schmitty199
I do abs and calfs 3 times a week, but i only do one set per work out.
Don't do it every night; that's useless. And what's the point of doing 70 crunches? Tell me, would you do 3 sets of 70 curls every night? No, so why do it with abs? There's nothing magical about abs.Originally Posted by schmitty199
--edit: Oops, ddegroff was too fast for me.
Last edited by fixationdarknes; 07-21-2005 at 10:56 AM.
Originally Posted by fixationdarknes
yes there is something magical about abs im a Running back in football the QB slams the ball into yur guy pretty hard sometimes to ensure you get it on a clean exchange and you land o nthe ball and get hit i nthe stomach alot now if you have good strong abs this wont hurt or knock the wind out of you
The point is, if you want stronger abs, train them with resistance. If you want stronger biceps, you wouldn't train them by making an empty handed curling motion 70 times for 3 sets each night, would you?Originally Posted by schmitty199
Originally Posted by SpecialK
hmm good point ill try the decline weighted ab workout
Yeah, I assure you your abs will get stronger that way. Just try to make normal progress with it like every other lift (upping the weight). And don't forget your abs are also worked during heavy compound movements like squats and deadlifts. Make sure you're doing those also if you want strong abs.
I do abs almost every night, and I am seeing improvement. I have blessed calves. Maybe its a genetic thing.
PS I do a lot of running
i do these.... my abs are on fire after every set... really tough workoutOriginally Posted by ddegroff
6'1 - 195
Crossfit Total: Press: 135 - Squat: 315 - Deadlift: 365
Competition Lifts: Clean: 205 - Bench: 205
Depending on what running you do I doubt that your running really helps make your calves larger than normal (assuming that is what you meant by "blessed calves"). Anyway I think they need to make a sticky talking about how abs and calves are just like any other muscle and should be trained as suchOriginally Posted by outsidethe9
Since I've learned the truth about calves and abs I always snicker when I see or hear of someone doing high reps trying to get their calves bigger... suckaaaas! For some reason there's the idea also that low reps/high weight for abs will make your abs "blocky" or something like that. I don't know about you guys but I want my six-pack to look like blocks.
Oh and by the way ddegroff weighted inclined crunches (I hold weight plates behind my head) kick my ass. So does the regular weighted ab machine (specifically the ones made by Nautilus).
if you own the arnold book, read what hes got to say about them
delete this account
You're seeing a pump in the mirror, and likely a decrease in BF%. I don't see how working 50+ reps out of the hypertrophy range and never recovering can lead to any improvement.Originally Posted by outsidethe9
"I added some db curls with the pink weights for a bit of a burn." - Rookiebldr
"im assuming the holy (big) 3 are: curls, bench, legs?" - Saggas
"had a huge ass burn on my triceps while I was doing those kickbacks, so they'll likely be staying with my exercise program." - Zearoth
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Although calves and abdominal muscles tend to repair much faster than most others, you should still train them like any other muscle. People think that by doing 200 situps that they'll "strengthen their core and burn fat on their stomach". If we apply that logic to our whole body, why don't we drop the weights and just do 200 non-weighted tricep extensions...it doesn't work that way.
"I tried so hard and got so far, but in the end, it doesn't even matter." - Linkin Park
have you seen any progress by doing 3 sets of 70? If you do, then continue, if you don't then you must have done something wrong.Originally Posted by schmitty199
I dont think its fair though to compare sit-ups or crunches with bicep curls. What about push-ups? People do sets of 50 and 100 at a time and they dont seem to be overtraining?Originally Posted by fixationdarknes
I never used to worry about my calves directly. I would do my entire work out, then kind of do the calf machine in passing on my way out of the gym. Maybe twice a week. I'd often even forget. The funny thing is, that muscle grew the most, no joke. It's almost disproportional to the rest of my body lol.
They also don't seem to be gaining strength or getting a bigger chest by doing these push-ups. And by strength I mean it in an anaerobic sense like a 1 rep max, not endurance. And yes you CAN compare crunches with curls and abs with biceps in this case. Muscle is muscle buddy (except for smoothe and cardiac muscle, we're not talking about those).Originally Posted by hoser813
And mattanshrager not all of us have access to the arnold book. Mind summarizing what it says?
why do you not think so?I dont think its fair though to compare sit-ups or crunches with bicep curls.
what does anaerobic exercise have to do with a 1 rep max?And by strength I mean it in an anaerobic sense like a 1 rep max, not endurance.
agreed. if you stop seeing progress, change things till you do again.have you seen any progress by doing 3 sets of 70? If you do, then continue, if you don't then you must have done something wrong.
I work everything heavy every 4 days. My abs are super strong but my calves suck. Then again the only thing I do for calves are weighted one-legged calf raises(don't have access to machines) so maybe that is why.
For abs I do:
Ab workout 1
Weighted Situps: 2 sets, BW+130lbs X 6-8 reps
Twisting Crunches: 2 sets, BW+120lbs X 6-12 reps
Vertical Leg Raises: 3-5 dropsets
4 days later....
Ab workout 2
Ab Machine: 2 sets, 40-80 reps
Ab Wheel: 2 sets, 15-30 reps
Then 4 days later back to ab workout 1.
I have been working abs for years though, like 10 years, even before I lifted weights, so that may be why they are so strong. However I have noticed a change in the way they look since working them heavy.
I used to work them 3x a week, on/off/on/off/on/off/off without resistance. I have seen better results with resistance. Goodluck!
Last edited by Dedicated; 07-24-2005 at 11:18 AM.
I was just trying to emphasize that I was talking about strength with regards to how much weight can be lifted once rather than how many times a light weight can be lifted. Technically if you do 70 reps of situps every other day or whenever then yes, they will get stronger but only in the sense that he'll be able to do more reps. I doubt the person doindg 70 reps of low weight will be able to lift the amount that someone doing high weight/low reps will be able to do.Originally Posted by dissipate
I don't know if there is a term for the strength of being able to lift high weight but I know that the strength for being able to lift a lighter weight many times is usually just referred to as endurance.
So who is stronger?
Person 1 has a 1 rep max of 300 but can only rep 200 eight times.
Person 2 has a 1 rep max of 280 but can rep 200 thirteen times.
You get what I'm trying to say? I used the term "anaerobic" to try to clear up that I'm talking about being able to lift high weight (in a 1 rep max sort of way) and not in an endurance sort of way.
I hope that kinda clears things up.
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Because one exercise you are using weights and only doing a few reps and the other you have no resistance and are doing 50+ reps at a time.Originally Posted by dissipate