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Thread: Shoulder workout

  1. #1
    Grammar Nazi BG5150's Avatar
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    Shoulder workout

    Has anyone tried this shoulder workout? As I've said before, my shoulders suck, and I was thinking of trying this. It's time to switch up after Max OT anyway.

    http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=469072
    Last edited by BG5150; 08-11-2005 at 01:04 PM.
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  2. #2
    Senior Member Wannabelean's Avatar
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    Looks like a ****load of volume. Give it a shot though

  3. #3
    Grammar Nazi BG5150's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wannabelean
    Looks like a ****load of volume. Give it a shot though
    The first four weeks in pretty high volume. I need a change (I've been doing low-rep/high weight for a couple months now), plus my shoulders suck a$$.

    I just did the day 1 workout today, to see how it was. My shoulders are fried. Not used to all the reps yet. Can't wait for the DOMS to kick in tomorrow!

    I'm just gonna do some general stuff over the next couple days--light stuff--and then start with the day 1 workout on Monday, because it fits my lifting schedule now (M,Tu,W,Fr Sat).

    We'll see how it goes.
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  5. #5
    Grammar Nazi BG5150's Avatar
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    I'm gonna need to figure out what my chest routine will be like, since it says for this program i should limit the other pressing exercises somewhat. I'm thinking dips declines and maybe (yuch) flyes for a while.
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  6. #6
    Just watch me ... Built's Avatar
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    You don't like flyes? I love those!
    Try flat bench, flat or incline flyes, then incline dumbbell presses.

    Compound - excentric - concentration. My favourite sequence.

  7. #7
    Grammar Nazi BG5150's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Built
    You don't like flyes? I love those!
    Try flat bench, flat or incline flyes, then incline dumbbell presses.

    Compound - excentric - concentration. My favourite sequence.
    I don't think I'm going to be doing any incline work for the next four weeks, since I will be working the shoulders twice a week. No need to hit 'em again.

    As for flyes, I was read a few places (I forget where, now) about how flyes weren't really worth the effort (sorta like kickbacks for the tri's). Or maybe it was cable flyes. Whatever it was, it put a bad spin on them for me, so I don't do them.
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  8. #8
    Wannabebig Member
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    speaking of shoulders, does anyone know about the shoulder extension exercise?

  9. #9
    Grammar Nazi BG5150's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fat guy
    speaking of shoulders, does anyone know about the shoulder extension exercise?
    Not sure what that would be? Did you see it in a routine somewhere?
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  10. #10
    I drink your milkshake twm's Avatar
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    if I were still doing a shoulder day, I'd be doing db overhead press, lateral raises and rear delt cable row. 3x6 each.. its really not that big of a decision. any routine with heavy work will give you strength/size if you eat
    Last edited by twm; 08-11-2005 at 09:39 PM.

  11. #11
    Just watch me ... Built's Avatar
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    I like to tuck flyes between compound and concentration movements to stretch out the nice warmed up pec. The concentration movement then really fills the muscle with blood.
    And I do my incline pec work VERY low. Still engages the shoulder a bit, but not that much. I just like how the change from flat to incline feels.

  12. #12
    MilliVanilli
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    Quote Originally Posted by Built
    You don't like flyes? I love those!
    Try flat bench, flat or incline flyes, then incline dumbbell presses.

    Compound - excentric - concentration. My favourite sequence.
    Ha, pretty close to my routine.


    Flat bench, incline db presses, flat or incline flyes.

    I do the exercises in that order so I can lift the most weight possible.

    I used to change things up and do things like dumbell bp, barbell incline, flat or incline flyes.

    Or flat bench, incline db presses, decline db presses.

    Switch things up every couple of weeks or when I'm bored.

    Also my curling routine is nearly identical to one you've posted before built.
    Blood, sweat, and tears.

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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by BG5150
    Has anyone tried this shoulder workout? As I've said before, my shoulders suck, and I was thinking of trying this. It's time to switch up after Max OT anyway.

    http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=469072

    The title put me off, straight away. Anybody who promises rapid improvement in eight weeks (and particularly in such a small bodypart as shoulders) is generally unbelievable. Not only that, but he makes the claim that phases of high volume training are necessary for EVERYONE but beginners, then goes on to say that these phases should last no longer than 4 weeks. Cycles that short seem (to me) fairly pointless.

    Plus you are doing a lot of volume. Add that to the workload your shoulders receive from chest and back work and that seems a sure-fire receipe for overtraining or injury. Also that you have 2 shoulder workouts in the same week. So they are getting hit 3-4 times a week. In the first phase you are doing up to 36 sets for shoulders a week. Way too much (and we are not counting the shoulder work from chest and back here). Not to mention that a couple of those exercises can be quite dangerous (structure-wise), like the behind the neck press.

    Nor does he explain how you should utilize this program year around. Do you only do this eight weeks out of the year and then the rest of the time train normally? He doesn't advocate this as a normal workout as he says that trainees shouldn't train more than 4 weeks with high volume. Or if you do this workout more than once a year, how long do you wait between them?

    I'd skip this altogether.
    Last edited by Songsangnim; 08-12-2005 at 09:16 PM.

  16. #16
    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
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    The volume isn't really that much - I think most people who've been lifting for a while can handle 9 sets for their shoulders.

    The split he gives with training 5x/week and two of those sessions being shoulders will be pretty rough, especially if you are benching and squatting heavy - quite frankly, I don't know why he recommends that. If I thought I might try it, I would probably be doing an upper body session, lower body session, and then the two shoulder sessions = 4x/week. I think the shoulders will need the break.

    Nothing magical here. Most newbies will be fine just doing military press and bent-over laterals.

    Edit: BG5150, I don't think you should bother with this. It's a little too much. Just hit military press and bent-over laterals hard (and throw in some plain old laterals if you think you need them) - I think you'll be surprised how quickly your shoulders start to show improvement.
    Last edited by Sensei; 08-12-2005 at 09:42 PM.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sensei
    The volume isn't really that much - I think most people who've been lifting for a while can handle 9 sets for their shoulders.

    The split he gives with training 5x/week and two of those sessions being shoulders will be pretty rough, especially if you are benching and squatting heavy - quite frankly, I don't know why he recommends that. If I thought I might try it, I would probably be doing an upper body session, lower body session, and then the two shoulder sessions = 4x/week. I think the shoulders will need the break.

    Nothing magical here. Most newbies will be fine just doing military press and bent-over laterals.

    Edit: BG5150, I don't think you should bother with this. It's a little too much. Just hit military press and bent-over laterals hard (and throw in some plain old laterals if you think you need them) - I think you'll be surprised how quickly your shoulders start to show improvement.
    Just a quick note here. The nine sets is only for the first week. Second week it goes to 18 sets per workout. And then one has the extra stress on the shoulders from chest and back work. Bit tough to maintain intensity.
    Last edited by Songsangnim; 08-13-2005 at 04:02 AM.

  18. #18
    Senior Member DNL's Avatar
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    they suggested behind the neck press.. and that guy seems to be doing 315lbs,

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Built
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  20. #20
    As I Am Paul Stagg's Avatar
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    Generally, I shut down when I read the formulatic article title "Bigger [insert bodypart here] in [insert number here] weeks"

    I generally like reading his articles, but this one seems a little trite, and way more complicated than it needs to be. If anyone should be training like this, it would be a highly advanced bodybuilder - someone who was told by a national level judge to bring up their shoulders, for example.

    I agree with Sensei, that moste well conditioned lifters could do this. But I don't see a reason to. Certainly doing this routine would require you back off your squatting and benching - are you in a position where your physique doesn't need to squat and press?

    A personal tidbit - When I started training using conjugated periodization (Westside style), I pretty much went to nearly no shoulder work. A couple of sets of presses or lateral or front raises a week, and several sets for my rear delts. But my shoulders have gotten bigger - at even a faster rate than some other bodyparts seem to be growing. With less direct work than I used to do (but certianly more bench pressing than I used to do)

    Go figure.
    Last edited by Paul Stagg; 08-13-2005 at 08:21 AM.
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  21. #21
    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExtremeAnabolic
    Just a quick note here. The nine sets is only for the first week. Second week it goes to 18 sets per workout. And then one has the extra stress on the shoulders from chest and back work. Bit tough to maintain intensity.
    Unless I'm just not reading it correctly, it is about 9 sets 2x/week for the first 4 weeks and about 18 sets once/week for the next 4 weeks.

    Just to comment: I like Chris T's stuff, but sometimes I think he makes things a lot more complicated than necessary. It does make you think though and although I've never really mapped out "density training"-plans, I think the idea has merit and rotating workout frequency has seemed to be pretty productive for my squats at times.
    Last edited by Sensei; 08-13-2005 at 09:01 PM.

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