The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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Thread: Upright rows

  1. #1
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    Upright rows

    When i do upright rows I bring the bar just about up to my chin. Am i going too high? If so where should I stop in the future?

    Thanks

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  3. #2
    Senior Member JamesBOMB's Avatar
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    Based on my visual experience you pull it to right around your collar bone.
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  4. #3
    Fury Divine RickTheDestroyer's Avatar
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    You know, upright rows never felt right to me, but I've been doing high pulls off the rack as part of isaac/borris' power look split, and that **** is great.
    They feel so good and totally pound everything attached to my shoulders.
    Seriously.
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  5. #4
    Go Heels! MixmasterNash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DenimDemon
    upright rows
    SUCK!


    Quote Originally Posted by DenimDemon
    high pulls
    KICK ASS!

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    If I were to start from scratch as a young 13 year old again, I would do every press, squat, and perhaps deadlifts, for my entire career with chains. -- Dan John

  6. #5
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    I like upright rows... .

  7. #6
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    These are the ones you do by holding a barbell in front, overhand grip, and pulling straight up towards your face, right? They kill my wrists if I go too far, I have to stop at my chest. Wider grip helps go a few inches higher but honestly they are so uncomfortable, yet they give my shoulders and traps a great workout, so I do them anyway..

  8. #7
    Senior Member dissipate's Avatar
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    lol @ mix

    anyone got vids of rack pulls? i'd like to see how it's done.. can't find any at exrx.

  9. #8
    Senior Member DNL's Avatar
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  10. #9
    Senior Member getfit's Avatar
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    i do upright rows
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  11. #10
    Go Heels! MixmasterNash's Avatar
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    upright rows are teh suck for your rotator cuffs. high pulls are safer, add an explosive element, and are just cooler.

    The journal / I live here.

    If I were to start from scratch as a young 13 year old again, I would do every press, squat, and perhaps deadlifts, for my entire career with chains. -- Dan John

  12. #11
    Fury Divine RickTheDestroyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DNL
    Yeah, but in a power rack- you set the bars slightly above your knees and pull from there. They rock ass. I feel like they've been more effective than upright rows ever were, and my shoulders don't hurt from them. Ya'll should seriously give them a shot. I'd pretty heavily recommend the whole split actually, although I've had to tweak it slightly because of equipment limitations.

    Here's the thread with a link to the article.
    http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?t=57888
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  13. #12
    Grammar Nazi BG5150's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trfe
    When i do upright rows I bring the bar just about up to my chin. Am i going too high? If so where should I stop in the future?

    Thanks
    Any higher and you're gonna bust open your chin.
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  14. #13
    Fury Divine RickTheDestroyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BG5150
    Any higher and you're gonna bust open your chin.
    Actually, funny story, and by funny I mean I'm glad I didn't have to go to the emergency room:
    The first time I tried doing high pulls, I didn't have my rack yet, so I just did them from the ground. For some dumb reason I had my lower lip between my teeth- I guess I was concentrating or something- and I clipped myself right in the chin with 100lbs or so. Amazingly, I didn't bust open my chin or bite through my lip, which is good. These days I pull farther forward and lean my head back, although I do still come up almost to mouth height.
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  15. #14
    back at it Beast's Avatar
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    I love upright rows. The more lateral the position of your wrists, the more your delts are isolated; more medial involves more traps.

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  16. #15
    Banned Pasha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beast
    I love upright rows. The more lateral the position of your wrists, the more your delts are isolated; more medial involves more traps.
    Can you illustrate that? I do em on an EZ curl bar.

  17. #16
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    Besides lifting the bar from the ground how would high pulls be easier on your rotator cuffs? I mean isnt that movement basically just a deadlift with an upright row at the top? (explosive element aside)

  18. #17
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    I don't see high pulls being all that great. It looks like a deadlift + plus an upright row. So, what this means, is for this to be a good excercise someone has to upright row what they deadlift, because if they don't, then your legs are getting worked out all that well (essentially a waste of motion). It's like those people who do squat-to-press. They squatw ith 10 lb dumbells and then military press them. It doesn't benefit the legs at all.

  19. #18
    Go Heels! MixmasterNash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JesseM
    Besides lifting the bar from the ground how would high pulls be easier on your rotator cuffs? I mean isnt that movement basically just a deadlift with an upright row at the top? (explosive element aside)
    Quote Originally Posted by PhilsterT
    I don't see high pulls being all that great. It looks like a deadlift + plus an upright row. So, what this means, is for this to be a good excercise someone has to upright row what they deadlift, because if they don't, then your legs are getting worked out all that well (essentially a waste of motion). It's like those people who do squat-to-press. They squatw ith 10 lb dumbells and then military press them. It doesn't benefit the legs at all.

    Oh dear.

    Dear or dear.

    There is so much to correct here.

    1) A hang high pull has no deep drop, and barely involves the legs, so it is an obvious substitution to lessen leg involvement.
    2) A high pull is NOT a deadlift plus an upright row. The bar travels above the belly button from momentum.
    3) Upright rows are BAD for your rotator cuff because you are supporting the weight when it is in front of your shoulders, leading to a nasty elbows out external shoulder rotation, as in a Cuban press, but at too heavy a weight. In a high pull, you're not supporting the weight at all above your belly button.
    4) Philster: Are you really ripping on high pulls and thrusters? The only thing I can say is that you clearly don't understand what they are intended for, and you should try them some time. How many thrusters can you do with 95lbs in 30 seconds? How many high pulls?

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  20. #19
    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilsterT
    I don't see high pulls being all that great. It looks like a deadlift + plus an upright row. So, what this means, is for this to be a good excercise someone has to upright row what they deadlift, because if they don't, then your legs are getting worked out all that well (essentially a waste of motion). It's like those people who do squat-to-press. They squatw ith 10 lb dumbells and then military press them. It doesn't benefit the legs at all.
    Philster, Philster, Philster, Philster.... Apparently, you've bought into the bodybuilder-mantra of "no-momentum" + "muscle pump"=best training...

    A high pull is essentially a hang clean without the catch. The correct term for "Squat-to-press" is a "push-press". They are both great exercises.

  21. #20
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    I haven't tried them (high pulls or push-press yet). Maybe I will give them a shot. The only reason I assumed they weren't great is because all the PTs at the gym have older women doing like 2 lb push-presses and all the PTs at my gym also have these women doing 20 minutes on abbs; literally. Like 10 sets of 100.

    I don't hang clean, but I want to really badly. Maybe I will see how these work.

    * * *

    I just saw a video of a push-press; haha, nots what I meant when I said squat-to-press. At my sissy-asses gym the trainers have the clients do like step-ups to press. They step up onto a Rebook pad and then do a military press. The movements are linked, but seperate.

    * * *

    Also for a hang pull I thought you started in the deadlift position?
    Last edited by PhilsterT; 08-17-2005 at 02:28 PM.

  22. #21
    Fury Divine RickTheDestroyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilsterT
    Also for a hang pull I thought you started in the deadlift position?
    "Hang" = bar in hands, arms hanging.

    The point of clean and press, high pulls, overhead squats, and most olympic variations that people do is not to heavily work the legs- we squat for that. These lifts build whole body strength, core and stabilizer strength, explosiveness, and they help you to synchronize yourself so that all your **** works more efficiently in unison.
    Or something like that.

    They're good for you. They make you big and strong. Do them.
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  23. #22
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    I think I will start them soon, but how do most people work them into their routine when they're such heavy compounds excercises? I find it hard seeing myself benching, deading, squatting and hang cleaning all in one week. I've never seen a workout with hang clean in it so I don't know how people organize that.

  24. #23
    Go Heels! MixmasterNash's Avatar
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    They're not that heavy, for starters.

    The journal / I live here.

    If I were to start from scratch as a young 13 year old again, I would do every press, squat, and perhaps deadlifts, for my entire career with chains. -- Dan John

  25. #24
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    Hang cleans? Really? They look super heavy. What day are they worked into?

  26. #25
    Fury Divine RickTheDestroyer's Avatar
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    I might not do hang cleans- I'd do high pulls from a rack (like I discussed earlier- slightly bigger ROM than hanging- I believe), and either clean and press on upper days, or you could break the clean and press into push presses and power cleans- push presses go on upper day, and power cleans can go upper or lower- they kill your traps (and other things) but your hips get a good workout from them as well.
    You may just have to experiment.
    DO NOT start them heavy- start really ridiculously light, get the form down (although oly lift form is something that one can basically continually improve upon, or so I'm told), and work for explosiveness- not 1RMs.
    Read the article that I linked above- since I started it about a 3 1/2 weeks ago I've definitely seen improvement. I didn't have a power rack until about a week and a half ago, so I hadn't even been doing the split exactly right until then.
    530S/320B/475D
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