10-24-2007, 03:15 AM
If you guys did that, would you be able to use this as an upper/lower?
That way everything is hit twice a week. Just a thought.
Last edited by RichMcGuire; 10-24-2007 at 03:16 AM.
10-24-2007, 06:42 AM
man...too bad I am trying to lose weight, or else I would try this. right now I am just trying to keep what little muscle I have(and lose the fat...which I have in abundance).
btw, can creatine help one retain muscle mass on a cut? I know protein has more to do with it, but I was wondering if creatine can help. But from what I understand, creatine is more so for people looking to put on muscle weight rather than maintain it.
Last edited by Sumorai; 10-24-2007 at 06:43 AM.
10-24-2007, 07:50 AM
Creatine will keep your muscles looking 'fuller.' Just keep your protein high when you cut and lift heavy and you should keep a decent amount of muscle, of course probably not all.
Originally Posted by Sumorai
10-24-2007, 07:51 AM
In my opinion, creatine can help most people retain LBM because it allows you to keep your itensity up when you have lower energy from lower calories. Caffeine works the same way.
Originally Posted by Sumorai
And thats the basis for a cut. If you are able to keep the same itensity and keep lifting the same amount of weight (or even slightly more) your body will have no choice but to keep the muscle around. It can depend on how big of a calorie loss you put yourself through as well. If its moderate, chances are, you will not build new muscle, but rather, youll repair and retain what you already have at the expense of your body fat stores. When calories lower on a moderate level, people often dont even notice a loss in muscle. I think moderate might be something like 2 or 300 calories.
If, however, you are trying to lose like 2 lbs a week rather than .5 - 1, youll have a greater chance at retaining slightly less LBM. But if someone is extremely overweight, it probably wont matter much. Bigger people that have an extremely high body fat% can drop loads of bodyfat faster than someone who is semi-lean.
Your body generally follows a 75/25 ratio of fat to muscle loss. So, 3/4 of every pound you lose is fat. But this ratio is without ANY fitness plan or heavy weight training. You can make this ratio much, much more into your favor by simply lifting some heavy weights a few times a week. You wouldnt even notice a 95/5 ratio
On a final note, most people gain weight from using creatine. But this is simply water retention inside the muscle cells
Last edited by RichMcGuire; 10-24-2007 at 08:06 AM.
10-25-2007, 04:30 PM
IM GONA TRY THIS. lol just wanted to throw it out there. my ALN ***** comes in the next day or 2 and im dedicating this next month solely to working out (maybe go to a few classes now and then lol) If i can gain 10 pounds ill be VERY happy.
10-25-2007, 10:02 PM
Originally Posted by RichMcGuire
Initially that may be true. But as you lose fat this ratio could likely change. Which is why even on a cut you still have to lift heavy. Nor is it all fat (as in tissue), much of that will be water loss.
Last edited by Songsangnim; 10-25-2007 at 10:07 PM.
10-25-2007, 11:51 PM
Originally Posted by Songsangnim
From what Ive gathered, unless you are at a very low bf% or very obese, 75/25 is the ratio that typically occurs. It makes sense. Your body stores fat to live off of when you enter a starvation mode. And 25% muscle loss is fairly significant..which also makes sense because your body gradually loses it because it has no use for it. Of course, lifting heavy completely changes the ratio to your favor. Your body then requires the LBM because of the stimuli from the weights. It has no choice but to repair and retain muscle tissue and energy requirements at the expense of body fat. This is exactly why lifting heavy works so well on a cut. This is also why some people (depending on the level of caloric decline and macros) might not even experience any noticeable changes in muscle while also experiencing gradual fat loss.
But, this is also without the addition of cardio. For example, the fat loss to muscle ratio can also change dramatically with cardio because cardio uses aerobic metabolism..using fat for energy as a result. As you probably know, your body uses the proteins in the blood stream for energy first (if it needs to) So, if you were to consume say, 50 grams of whey before a moderate cardio session, and then another 50 grams after, if your body did need protein for energy from a lack of calories/carbohydrates, protein and body fat would be readily available. Consuming protein in this manner also would generally replace the lost calories but you would have still burned body fat in the process and spared LBM.
So really, theres a lot of factors with genetics being another story But typically, without any heavy lifting or cardio, I think it would follow the 75/25 estimate. I could be wrong. Text books are often in need of correction. But I thought I'd share my opinion
Last edited by RichMcGuire; 10-25-2007 at 11:59 PM.
11-27-2007, 11:43 PM
Have any of you guys heard of the colorado experiment, probably not, im 16 6,2 170 and not very big or all that strong with a flat cold bench of about 195... but just google colorado experiment and you will see a fairly well known name casey viator, former mr america i beleive, click on one of those pages... read it and tell me what yall think.. 63 lbs in 28 days! definately worth a look!
11-27-2007, 11:46 PM
Originally Posted by Cirino83
Despite what you or I may think or know I have heard that L-Glutamine an essential amino acid can be extremely good for LBM retention in a cuttting cycle or when your trying to keep muscle while taking a week or two off to stop from burning out....
11-28-2007, 12:02 AM
Just watch me ...
It's neither essential (your body can make it, so it doesn't qualify), nor scarce - most of us probably get way more glutamine in our diets than the typical 5-10g dosing. Supplemented oral glutamine mostly gets taken up in the gut. Waste of money.
11-28-2007, 12:15 AM
Originally Posted by MP_Ironman
Do a search and find out why this experiment was greatly flawed and why it can not be used as a benchmark.
Last edited by Songsangnim; 11-28-2007 at 12:16 AM.
11-28-2007, 12:19 AM
OK I wasnt sure just chekin cause i heard it could be quite useful if you are doing a cutting cycle and it could possibly be scarce in your body as it is used more when high caloric consumption is not there to help support your muscles
Originally Posted by Built
11-28-2007, 12:22 AM
I did a while back and i found that they had both been out of lifting for a long time and freshly back from healed injuries and also higher than average genetic composition and also a fairly unlimited supply of nutrients... although i was thinking it was in 1973 and new supplements may be able to help make such acheivements possible, or maybe slightly closer to acheivable
Originally Posted by Songsangnim
09-02-2009, 09:42 PM
I have a question, what directions do you suggest to take these supplements: Nitrean or Opticen,Creatine 500, ETS?