The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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Thread: 1-6 principle

  1. #1
    Geordie The_Chicken_Daddy's Avatar
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    1-6 principle

    http://t-mag.com/html/58princ.html

    i think i remember PM and Belial discussing this, but i'm not totally sure.

    any comments?
    "Geordie/'d3c:di/n. & adj. Brit colloq. n. 1 a native of Tyneside. 2 the dialect spoken on Tyneside. adj. of or relating to Tyneside, its people, or its dialect. [the name George + -IE]

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  3. #2
    As I Am Paul Stagg's Avatar
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    Seems counterintuitive, but he's got a fancy name for what happens.

    The unanswered question is:

    What happens to the max (or the 6RM) over time.

    Week one, you think your max is 225.

    You do
    225x1
    185x6
    230x1
    190x6
    235x1
    195x6

    So what? Were you wrong about your max? Were you just having a good day?

    What happens the next time you do the workout, with your new 1RM of 235?

    It seems like he's saying you can add 5-10 pounds to your 1RM each workout.

    Anyone up to experiment with it?
    Squats work better than supplements.
    "You know, if I thought like that, I'd never put more than one plate on the bar for anything, I'd never use bands or chains, I'd never squat to parallel or below, and I'd never let out the slightest grunt when I lift. At some point in your lifting career (assuming you're planning on getting reasonably strong and big), you're going to have to accept that most people think you are some kind of freak." -Sensei
    "You're wrong, and I have a completely irrelevant pubmed abstract that may or may not say so." - Belial
    I has a blog.
    I has a facebook.

  4. #3
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    Been there done that.

    The fancy name for it is "post-tetanic facilitation," and its basically the heightened neural potentials that occur after a heavy load is lifted. It makes it easier to complete a subsequent set.

    I've explored wave-loading like this before, and it does work.

    The idea is, on that first set, 185x6 would be your 6RM, but by the final set, the neural potentials have increased it to a level you wouldn't have gotten otherwise.

    Another variant of the same effect is called static-dynamic effort (like maximal effort, repeated effort, etc). I'm using it right now, and it basically involves holding an isometric contraction for 2-3 seconds, then exploding up. Use it for 2-4 reps, with 85-100% of your max. Its been working nicely.
    Vin Diesel has a fever.. and the only prescription is more cowbell.

    Budiak: That girl I maced
    Budiak: macked
    Budiak: heh maced
    Budiak: I wish

    ShmrckPmp5: a good thing people can't fire guns through the computer...your ass would have been shot years ago

    Y2A 47: youre smooth as hell
    Y2A 47: thats why you get outta tickets, and into panties

    galileo: you're a fucking beast and I hate you
    galileo: hate

    assgrabbers are never subtile, they will grabb ass whereever they go,public or not, I know the type, because I am one. - Rock

  5. #4
    As I Am Paul Stagg's Avatar
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    So the set of 1 is NOT a 1RM?

    But the set of 6 is?

    That seems more reasonable.
    Squats work better than supplements.
    "You know, if I thought like that, I'd never put more than one plate on the bar for anything, I'd never use bands or chains, I'd never squat to parallel or below, and I'd never let out the slightest grunt when I lift. At some point in your lifting career (assuming you're planning on getting reasonably strong and big), you're going to have to accept that most people think you are some kind of freak." -Sensei
    "You're wrong, and I have a completely irrelevant pubmed abstract that may or may not say so." - Belial
    I has a blog.
    I has a facebook.

  6. #5
    Geordie The_Chicken_Daddy's Avatar
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    Originally posted by PowerManDL


    The idea is, on that first set, 185x6 would be your 6RM, but by the final set, the neural potentials have increased it to a level you wouldn't have gotten otherwise.


    Does that mean if, the following week, you go to lift more than 185 that you'd manage 6 reps? [if everything falls into place of course.]
    "Geordie/'d3c:di/n. & adj. Brit colloq. n. 1 a native of Tyneside. 2 the dialect spoken on Tyneside. adj. of or relating to Tyneside, its people, or its dialect. [the name George + -IE]

  7. #6
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    Paul-- I wouldn't use a true 1RM. Poliquin seems to indicate that that needs to be the case, but anything that is "heavy" will cause the effect. I'd say something you'd get a triple with, say around 90%, would be good enough.

    Chigs-- Ideally, yes.

    Also, the 1-6 scheme isn't set in stone. I've done 2-5-3, 3-8-2, and so on.
    Last edited by PowerManDL; 12-28-2001 at 03:58 PM.
    Vin Diesel has a fever.. and the only prescription is more cowbell.

    Budiak: That girl I maced
    Budiak: macked
    Budiak: heh maced
    Budiak: I wish

    ShmrckPmp5: a good thing people can't fire guns through the computer...your ass would have been shot years ago

    Y2A 47: youre smooth as hell
    Y2A 47: thats why you get outta tickets, and into panties

    galileo: you're a fucking beast and I hate you
    galileo: hate

    assgrabbers are never subtile, they will grabb ass whereever they go,public or not, I know the type, because I am one. - Rock

  8. #7
    Geordie The_Chicken_Daddy's Avatar
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    So basically do a heavier set for fewer reps before you do a 'regular' set. regualar being the set you were originally intending to get.

    that right?


    for example:

    intend to bench 200 for 6-8

    do a set of 220 for 1-2
    rest 4 mins
    do 200 for 6-8

    do a set of 225-230 for 1
    rest
    do 205 for 6-8

    etc...

    ????

    how many sets are you 'supposed' to do this for?

    to what extent do you consider the 1RM a 'work set' if your concern is primarily growth and not so much strength?

    Is this technique expected to work every week? [i'm doubting this before you ask]
    "Geordie/'d3c:di/n. & adj. Brit colloq. n. 1 a native of Tyneside. 2 the dialect spoken on Tyneside. adj. of or relating to Tyneside, its people, or its dialect. [the name George + -IE]

  9. #8
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy

    how many sets are you 'supposed' to do this for?


    As many as you'd like-- I'd do two "waves" if I were to take this up.

    to what extent do you consider the 1RM a 'work set' if your concern is primarily growth and not so much strength?


    You don't.

    Is this technique expected to work every week? [i'm doubting this before you ask]


    Like anything that places heavy stress on the nervous system, you won't be able to keep it up forever. I'd use it for a 2 or 3 week cycle to break up normal training.

    Also, a 4 minute rest is too long. Optimal time after the heavy set is 2-3 minutes, as the effect diminishes after this.
    Last edited by PowerManDL; 12-28-2001 at 04:17 PM.
    Vin Diesel has a fever.. and the only prescription is more cowbell.

    Budiak: That girl I maced
    Budiak: macked
    Budiak: heh maced
    Budiak: I wish

    ShmrckPmp5: a good thing people can't fire guns through the computer...your ass would have been shot years ago

    Y2A 47: youre smooth as hell
    Y2A 47: thats why you get outta tickets, and into panties

    galileo: you're a fucking beast and I hate you
    galileo: hate

    assgrabbers are never subtile, they will grabb ass whereever they go,public or not, I know the type, because I am one. - Rock

  10. #9
    Geordie The_Chicken_Daddy's Avatar
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    2 waves eh? so just as my example then?

    and this would just count as simply 2 work sets then.

    would you use it for every exercise or just compounds - or even just exercises you wanted to improve a bit?
    "Geordie/'d3c:di/n. & adj. Brit colloq. n. 1 a native of Tyneside. 2 the dialect spoken on Tyneside. adj. of or relating to Tyneside, its people, or its dialect. [the name George + -IE]

  11. #10
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    I've only used it with compounds. However, there's no reason it wouldn't work with single joint movements.

    I just can't imagine myself doing 1RM or near-1RM lifts with isolation movements.
    Vin Diesel has a fever.. and the only prescription is more cowbell.

    Budiak: That girl I maced
    Budiak: macked
    Budiak: heh maced
    Budiak: I wish

    ShmrckPmp5: a good thing people can't fire guns through the computer...your ass would have been shot years ago

    Y2A 47: youre smooth as hell
    Y2A 47: thats why you get outta tickets, and into panties

    galileo: you're a fucking beast and I hate you
    galileo: hate

    assgrabbers are never subtile, they will grabb ass whereever they go,public or not, I know the type, because I am one. - Rock

  12. #11
    Wannabebig Member
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    It makes sense as long as you don't go nuts on that one rep. Look at it this way... have you ever been moving boxes of stuff around your house and then unknowingly you pick up a box that is empty or only half full? It seems so light that you almost throw it in the air. The 1-6 method is just a way to trick the nervous system.
    I've read of people doing a similar method for squats. They would unrack a weight heavier than their one rep max and just stand with it for a second, then go back and do their real set.

  13. #12
    3:16
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    do you ever run out of energy? Or does your nueral increases overpower loss of energy.
    Does it take a while to adapt to this training? Or if i tried it, would I get a similar kind of increase straight away?
    my exprience - joined gym 10 years ago, 6 1/2 years hard weight training exprience.

  14. #13
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    The trick to it is not to tire yourself out on the 1RM attempts.

    That's why I definitely don't recommend max attempts. My guideline is to use something that you'd fail at with three reps.
    Vin Diesel has a fever.. and the only prescription is more cowbell.

    Budiak: That girl I maced
    Budiak: macked
    Budiak: heh maced
    Budiak: I wish

    ShmrckPmp5: a good thing people can't fire guns through the computer...your ass would have been shot years ago

    Y2A 47: youre smooth as hell
    Y2A 47: thats why you get outta tickets, and into panties

    galileo: you're a fucking beast and I hate you
    galileo: hate

    assgrabbers are never subtile, they will grabb ass whereever they go,public or not, I know the type, because I am one. - Rock

  15. #14
    Geordie The_Chicken_Daddy's Avatar
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    Originally posted by PowerManDL
    The trick to it is not to tire yourself out on the 1RM attempts.

    That's why I definitely don't recommend max attempts. My guideline is to use something that you'd fail at with three reps.
    and use the weight for 1 rep or for three?
    "Geordie/'d3c:di/n. & adj. Brit colloq. n. 1 a native of Tyneside. 2 the dialect spoken on Tyneside. adj. of or relating to Tyneside, its people, or its dialect. [the name George + -IE]

  16. #15
    Player Hater PowerManDL's Avatar
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    One.
    Vin Diesel has a fever.. and the only prescription is more cowbell.

    Budiak: That girl I maced
    Budiak: macked
    Budiak: heh maced
    Budiak: I wish

    ShmrckPmp5: a good thing people can't fire guns through the computer...your ass would have been shot years ago

    Y2A 47: youre smooth as hell
    Y2A 47: thats why you get outta tickets, and into panties

    galileo: you're a fucking beast and I hate you
    galileo: hate

    assgrabbers are never subtile, they will grabb ass whereever they go,public or not, I know the type, because I am one. - Rock

  17. #16
    As I Am Paul Stagg's Avatar
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    So, it is essentially a heavy warmup.
    Squats work better than supplements.
    "You know, if I thought like that, I'd never put more than one plate on the bar for anything, I'd never use bands or chains, I'd never squat to parallel or below, and I'd never let out the slightest grunt when I lift. At some point in your lifting career (assuming you're planning on getting reasonably strong and big), you're going to have to accept that most people think you are some kind of freak." -Sensei
    "You're wrong, and I have a completely irrelevant pubmed abstract that may or may not say so." - Belial
    I has a blog.
    I has a facebook.

  18. #17
    Senior Member Avatar's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Paul Stagg
    So, it is essentially a heavy warmup.
    well not entirely. You should already be warmed up before attempted the 1RM set.
    "They will spend their nights dreaming of six-pack
    abs and a rock hard physique, little do they realize eventually we will reach
    our goal and they will be dreaming of the body we walk around with every
    dayÖonly then will they understand." -- Severed Ties

    "There are 6 billion people in this world, and I'm #1." -- me

  19. #18
    Geordie The_Chicken_Daddy's Avatar
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    well that's an oxymoron if i've ever seen one.
    "Geordie/'d3c:di/n. & adj. Brit colloq. n. 1 a native of Tyneside. 2 the dialect spoken on Tyneside. adj. of or relating to Tyneside, its people, or its dialect. [the name George + -IE]

  20. #19
    As I Am Paul Stagg's Avatar
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    Heavy warmup?

    I do them all time.
    Squats work better than supplements.
    "You know, if I thought like that, I'd never put more than one plate on the bar for anything, I'd never use bands or chains, I'd never squat to parallel or below, and I'd never let out the slightest grunt when I lift. At some point in your lifting career (assuming you're planning on getting reasonably strong and big), you're going to have to accept that most people think you are some kind of freak." -Sensei
    "You're wrong, and I have a completely irrelevant pubmed abstract that may or may not say so." - Belial
    I has a blog.
    I has a facebook.

  21. #20
    Geordie The_Chicken_Daddy's Avatar
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    throw in some hardcore cardio and some hardcore tanning and you got a recipe for success.
    "Geordie/'d3c:di/n. & adj. Brit colloq. n. 1 a native of Tyneside. 2 the dialect spoken on Tyneside. adj. of or relating to Tyneside, its people, or its dialect. [the name George + -IE]

  22. #21
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    ok so now wait, one mor thing to Clarify.. I do DB press as my FIRST chest excercise, and you say i should be warmed up BEFORE i start the waves, so that would mean that i would have to do a light warm up set or two before i start? wouldnt that be defeating the purpose of the waves??

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