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Thread: The Clinton/Gore environmental record

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    The Clinton/Gore environmental record

    On another forum, I was debating liberals about how the Clinton/Gore administration had horrible environmental policies. I posted this information, and there response was that Nader made all that stuff up.

    So, fellow-political junkies, did Nader really just make his accusations against the Clinton/Gore administration on the environment up, or is it true? I find it hard to believe he would just make it all up.

  2. #2
    Go Heels! MixmasterNash's Avatar
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    Whatever. They had a far better environmental record than any practical alternative administration. Maybe they had a worse record than a theoretical, impossible Nader administration.

    I can tell you one thing though. The Bush 2 administration's environmental policies are exactly what everyone expected, and Nader did more than almost any other person to make sure they got implemented.

    In other words, Nader can suck it. More to the point, who gives a **** now?

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    Well, it's a given that Baby Bush has the worst environmental policies in this country's history. But I'm wondering about Clinton/Gore, who call themselves environmentalists.

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    Lleu Llaw Gyffes Miker's Avatar
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    What does it matter about Clinton/Gore? Or are you just trying to insinuate that bad enviromental policies are the democrats' domain?

    There hasn't been a government yet, in the US or Canada, that has done a damn thing for the environment except the odd repair of something they ****ed up in the first place.

    Right now... we have no reason to complain about any other country... especially when the US wants to drill for oil in an arctic preservation area and Canada is allowing diamond mines to pop up like zits all over the north.
    "Fast food kills more people than hard drugs. McDonalds is the smack dealer of today. We are feeding ourselves things we wouldn't have fed animals 50 years ago. If you respect yourself, you wouldn't eat that crap."
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    Every article on how to improve your chin-ups includes a program with a shitload of chin-ups in it. Is that all you've got? Improve your chin-ups by just doing more of them?

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  5. #5
    Party of "No." Tryska's Avatar
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    hey now - give Teddy Roosevelt a little credit. and i hate to say it, but Nixon too.

    not getting into a "why clinton sucked so bad 10 years ago, because there's no really good explanation for why bush sucks" argument today.
    Last edited by Tryska; 10-13-2005 at 10:05 AM.
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    Really, really tiny Tarendol's Avatar
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    Out of curiosity, what do you think a proper governmental policy towards the environment should be?

  7. #7
    Party of "No." Tryska's Avatar
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    in my opinion? working on a renewable energy policy would be a good start - that and emissions from factories....

    the way i look at it - environmental issues impact health issues as well.
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    Wannabe Rick James Genacide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarendol
    Out of curiosity, what do you think a proper governmental policy towards the environment should be?
    Milk it for what it's worth!!!
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

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    Lleu Llaw Gyffes Miker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tryska
    in my opinion? working on a renewable energy policy would be a good start - that and emissions from factories....

    the way i look at it - environmental issues impact health issues as well.
    as well as
    Ending subsidies that result in more pollution and increased health risks.
    some specifics:
    Ban clear-cutting and conserve remaining old growth in federally managed forests.
    Enforce all emissions standards and raise penalties 5 fold at the minimum.
    Ensure that all mining operations are insured for environmental liabilities and have a pre-funded plan for remediation when the mine closes.
    Cancel federal subsidies for highways and traffic systems and implement a GST "feebate" program to promote fuel-efficient cars and trucks.
    Allow cities to license smaller, more efficient vehicles and exercise more control over local transportation policies.

    Just a few...
    "Fast food kills more people than hard drugs. McDonalds is the smack dealer of today. We are feeding ourselves things we wouldn't have fed animals 50 years ago. If you respect yourself, you wouldn't eat that crap."
    - John Davies of Renegade Training


    "The trainee needs to look past the obvious solution to any problem and look for the real solution. For example, every arm training article in the last ten years to improve your arm circumference has included a workout based on curls and triceps extensions. Do you really think a lack of doing curls is the reason why most guys have less than impressive arms?

    Every article on how to improve your chin-ups includes a program with a shitload of chin-ups in it. Is that all you've got? Improve your chin-ups by just doing more of them?

    Really fucking cutting edge that is!"
    - Alwyn Cosgrove


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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarendol
    Out of curiosity, what do you think a proper governmental policy towards the environment should be?
    How Ralph Nader would it.

    http://www.ontheissues.org/Ralph_Nader.htm

  11. #11
    Senior Member Spartacus's Avatar
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    there is also the subsidisation of sprawl. for infrastructure, there needs to be greater metropolitan governmental cooperation (city proper/suburbs, and metropolises that span state lines), as well as ending the income tax deduction for income taxes. affects long-term enegery usage

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    MulletII - AKA Ninja Boner Gyno Rhino's Avatar
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    Strange to me that no one is allowed to critique Clinton/Gore..

    Because they're obviously Bush Jr. puppets that blindly follow his commands.

    Sheesh.

    Some of y'all need to get OVER the stupid "us or them" nonsense.
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    Senior Member BilltheButcher's Avatar
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    Got to in yelling match with a bunch of guys at a stop light two days ago, when they decided to throw out all the McDonalds bags on the side of the road. So if you litter, you better watch out, you may get a tongue lashing.
    Thats what i am doing to help the environment.

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    MulletII - AKA Ninja Boner Gyno Rhino's Avatar
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    Wait a minute... Did you just say you'd treat a litterbug to the joys of oral love?
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  15. #15
    Senior Member BilltheButcher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gyno Rhino
    Wait a minute... Did you just say you'd treat a litterbug to the joys of oral love?
    Ya, tongue lashing on a bunch of guys at the traffic light. They were hesitant at first but hey if you litter that is going to be your punishment.

  16. #16
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    I'll be trashing the highways from now on.
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    Pearls of Wisdom...


    Resident Ninja Demon (with a pet Radioactive Sloth) and SchlonkeyMaster of WBB!

    Rock is my 'Big Viking Brother', and not in a homo-esque way.

    And no COLON jokes, bastards!

  17. #17
    Go Heels! MixmasterNash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gyno Rhino
    I'll be trashing the highways from now on.
    I prefer non-mustachioed tounge lashings, but to each his own.

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  18. #18
    General of Froot Soldiers TwiloMike's Avatar
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    Out of curiosity- why do people get into such a fit over drilling in Alaska? The scruitiny it's under now would ensure probably the safest drilling operation in history. It's tundra, for goodness' sake!
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  19. #19
    Lleu Llaw Gyffes Miker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwiloMike
    Out of curiosity- why do people get into such a fit over drilling in Alaska? The scruitiny it's under now would ensure probably the safest drilling operation in history. It's tundra, for goodness' sake!
    I'd be smug and tell you to read up on the subject.. but truthfully... nobody probably would bother reading.

    There is massive risk drilling there.. a slight contamination could wipe out the largest free reigning caribou herd in the world.. not to mention the pipeline crosses their migratory route across preservation lands. There is the issue about an entire tribe of inuit who live in the preservation area and live off the land, any contamination would destroy them. These are the small ramifications. The larger ones talk about damage to the arctic ecosystem from any contamination, the destruction of the environment and the fact that there is no way to ensure that there will not be an accident or even purposeful contamination.

    WHy drill there.. there isn't enough oil there to last the US for one year anyways...perhaps that should be impetus enough.. why destroy one of the last remaining vestiges of North American pristine wilderness over a trivial amount of oil?
    "Fast food kills more people than hard drugs. McDonalds is the smack dealer of today. We are feeding ourselves things we wouldn't have fed animals 50 years ago. If you respect yourself, you wouldn't eat that crap."
    - John Davies of Renegade Training


    "The trainee needs to look past the obvious solution to any problem and look for the real solution. For example, every arm training article in the last ten years to improve your arm circumference has included a workout based on curls and triceps extensions. Do you really think a lack of doing curls is the reason why most guys have less than impressive arms?

    Every article on how to improve your chin-ups includes a program with a shitload of chin-ups in it. Is that all you've got? Improve your chin-ups by just doing more of them?

    Really fucking cutting edge that is!"
    - Alwyn Cosgrove


    Max's
    Bench Press - 255lbs x 1 reps (June 15/05)
    Squat - 325lbs x 1 rep (April 27/05)
    Deadlift - 405lbs x 1 reps (Feb 27/06)

  20. #20
    Senior Member BilltheButcher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MixmasterNash
    I prefer non-mustachioed tounge lashings, but to each his own.
    I have a little hitler stach, not sure if that counts.

  21. #21
    Senior Member BilltheButcher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miker
    I'd be smug and tell you to read up on the subject.. but truthfully... nobody probably would bother reading.

    There is massive risk drilling there.. a slight contamination could wipe out the largest free reigning caribou herd in the world.. not to mention the pipeline crosses their migratory route across preservation lands. There is the issue about an entire tribe of inuit who live in the preservation area and live off the land, any contamination would destroy them. These are the small ramifications. The larger ones talk about damage to the arctic ecosystem from any contamination, the destruction of the environment and the fact that there is no way to ensure that there will not be an accident or even purposeful contamination.

    WHy drill there.. there isn't enough oil there to last the US for one year anyways...perhaps that should be impetus enough.. why destroy one of the last remaining vestiges of North American pristine wilderness over a trivial amount of oil?
    I thought the problem was that they couldn't search to see if there was more oil. So saying there isn't any oil or not enough oil seems wrong to me. They aren't allowing exploration.

  22. #22
    Go Heels! MixmasterNash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwiloMike
    Out of curiosity- why do people get into such a fit over drilling in Alaska? The scruitiny it's under now would ensure probably the safest drilling operation in history. It's tundra, for goodness' sake!
    Yeah, because oil companies have a perfect environmental record in Alaska.



    Point 1 against drilling in ANWR: We wouldn't get the oil for 5-10 years from now.
    Point 2: It's cheaper to get oil from Canada, and they have more of it, and it is currently available.
    Point 3: The maximum amount of oil production from the reserve would be a small fraction of US daily requirements.
    Point 4: The actual oil taken from ANWR would probably be sold to Asia. Unless we nationalize all oil production, all that could potentially happen is a slight decrease in price, given that nothing else changes in the entire world.
    Point 5: An increase in fuel efficiency of 3-5 mpg for all vehicles in the US would decrease demand by more than ANWR could ever produce.

    There is no possible economic reason for US citizens to support drilling for new oil in Alaska. Forget consideration for the environment, simple economics dictates that it's a bad idea for our economy, compared to almost any other production method. All that would happen is further enrichment of oil companies.

    Now, in the face of all of that, if some company wants to take the risk of drilling, I propose this: take out an environmental insurance policy. Figure out the cost of the Valdez oil spill ($200 billion? A trillion? Some actuary can figure it out.) Make the oil company buy a policy to cover that potential disaster. If there is a disaster, then the policy is paid to the US for cleanup. If, after the oil is removed, nothing has occured, return the policy payments.

    It's the economic solution. Instead, the oil companies want the US taxpayer to assume the risk of environmental disaster while keeping all of the profits for themselves. Why do you want to subsidize ExxonMobil? (Ahem, I mean, more than you already do.)

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  23. #23
    Wannabebig New Member
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    I was avoiding this thread but I want to say one or two things .

    1- I'm for drilling in ANWAR , 20 years ago we said " naa , it'll take about 10 years to get it " . Now look at us .

    2-- I dont know that Canada has more oil , from what I've read there is quite a bit up there so lets buy from canada and drill .

    3-- So what ?? So lets not get more oil ?

    4-Lets drill and not sell it to Asia .

    5-Increase fuel effeciency AND drill in ANWAR .

    People arent THAT concerned about environmental problems associated with drilling otherwise the environmental whackos would be protesting in the middle east every damn day for the last 30 + years .

    In closing ... drill in ANWAR and step up the environmental checks . Make cars more effecient and lets develop alternative sources . These will make the current time more bearable and the future more optimistic .

    For Miker ... there are risks with everything . I dont know where we started this " well theres risk so lets not do it . " Since putting the pipeline in the caribou herd has tripled or something like that . I watched it on discovery . They have spots every couple hundred yards for them to go under the pipeline . The heat from the oil has helped the herd to grow . So we can stop the doom and gloom and look at it from every angle .
    Last edited by Brawl; 10-14-2005 at 03:22 PM.
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  24. #24
    Party of "No." Tryska's Avatar
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    not for nothing.....but protesting in the middle east is for Middle eastern environmental whackos to do.
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  25. #25
    Wannabebig New Member
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    Haha ... good one girl .

    Bottom line for me ... drill and make things more fuel effecient .

    Hope isnt a plan .
    Give me your broken , give me your beaten ... I will build them up , I will lead them ... to the threshhold . Make you stronger , make you believe .

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