The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
Latest Article

The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
More Recent Articles
Contrast Training for Size
By: Lee Boyce
An Interview with Marianne Kane of Girls Gone Strong
By: Jordan Syatt
What Supplements Should I be Taking? By: Jay Wainwright
Bench Like a Girl By: Julia Ladewski
Some Thoughts on Building a Big Pull By: Christopher Mason

Facebook Join Facebook Group       Twitter Follow on Twitter       rss Subscribe via RSS
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 33
  1. #1
    Senior Member malkore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    315

    P + C, P + F ...who has the links?

    I know a few of you have links to articles about why it's better to have prot+carbs in the morning, early afternoon, and then prot+fat in the late afternoon/evening hours.

    Didn't see em in the Articles section, and the search feature is busted.

    Can one of you share some links? I plan to google, but 50% of net info is bad, so I wanna ensure I get true articles/research, etc.

    thanks.

  2.    Support Wannabebig and use AtLarge Nutrition Supplements!


  3. #2
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    4,580
    there is a link of a thread on bodyrecomposition about P+C and P+F meals in ryuages signature I believe..
    Last edited by f=ma; 10-24-2005 at 12:32 PM. Reason: coherence

  4. #3
    Senior Member malkore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    315
    Thanks. I knew someone had it in their sig but couldn't remember who. Looked em up and found the URL. Thanks again

  5. #4
    I wannabebig!
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    in my own world
    Posts
    1,816
    ?

  6. #5
    Just watch me ... Built's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    9,912
    I eat this way because I find it more comfortable. Ryuage doesn't feel it matters. Seems to be very individual.

    Berardi has quite a bit on this, as does Rugged Mag.

  7. #6
    I wannabebig!
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    in my own world
    Posts
    1,816
    more comfortable or more effective? I guess if it is more comfortable for you to eat that way then it is more effective for you, but as far as fat loss / weight gain is concerned do you think it will really matter in the big scheme of things?

  8. #7
    Just watch me ... Built's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    9,912
    HmmmÖ it's an important distinction to make.

    My best answer is "it might". There's evidence in both directions.

    I find it works better for me, and the insulin/glucagon thing cannot be ignored, but I've said before and I'll say again - the biggest problem with reducing calories is appetite control. Will separating carb from fat keep me from storing an extra 50 calories worth of fat? Maybe. Maybe not. But for many of us, it's more comfortable, and there's evidence that it may be beneficial. There's no evidence that it is harmful.

    Better appetite control and a non-zero probability that it helps with partitioning are strong enough reasons for me.

  9. #8
    260(-62) from 193 from 275
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Oshawa-->Toronto
    Posts
    0
    Excellent post Ruyage. This is my position on everything training and diet related. Any factor that doesn't impact the effectiveness of the program just confuses things, taking away from the program as a whole.

    The original poster used the term *better*. I can only guess that by this he thinks he will gain muscle faster or lose fat quicker, or perhaps even a combination of both.

    Combining various macro's will not make your diet more effective regardless of what your goals are. The only benefit at all is as in Builts case it helps her stick to *a* diet period.

  10. #9
    260(-62) from 193 from 275
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Oshawa-->Toronto
    Posts
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Built
    My best answer is "it might". There's evidence in both directions.
    I'd like to see evidence in either direction. To me this is incredibly easy to prove in a clinical setting. Two groups, equal cals, different macro's, done deal.

    I'm not sure what you mean by evidence but if you can give me a title or a link to any study that would make a great read.

    This is one of those topics where I wish the general public or medical industry would have some interest in studying.

  11. #10
    I wannabebig!
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    in my own world
    Posts
    1,816
    sure doesnt seem to make it easier, i want me my peanut butter and jelly sammmmiches.

    *goes to eat one right now*

  12. #11
    $3n10r M3mb3r defcon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    1,331
    Quote Originally Posted by ryuage
    sure doesnt seem to make it easier, i want me my peanut butter and jelly sammmmiches.

    *goes to eat one right now*
    Skip the Jelly and I'm with ya. I even say it, 'sammmiches' ! My GF makes the best ones. Ensures that there are equal amounts of PB all over the bread.

  13. #12
    Senior Member malkore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    315
    Not the best choice of words I guess. I merely wanted the link from Ryu's sig, but didn't know who's sig to go look for.

    Its an interesting debate. Honestly, I bet it does work for some people, but its hard to say unless you try it both ways for a long enough time, monitoring everything perfectly, before you can say either way is more effective.

    And if both are equally effective, then just do what works. For me, carbs do make me hungry in the evening, so I'm gathering all the evidence, pro or con, for P + F in later p.m. hours.

    Thanks all!

  14. #13
    Meathead Philosopher Pup's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    6,793
    The heart of the debate isn't so much whether or not p+f and p+c are useful as dietary strategies, but moreso in JB's claims of what are necessary calorie needs and whether or not controlling insulin is the key to keeping fat gain to a minimum when in major calorie surplus. I don't think anyone can question that implementing the strategy is not a bad idea for cleaning up the diet and giving someone not used to eating clean a pretty basic template for setting up a diet.

    Most studies regarding weightloss are done on the obese, not healthy individuals, so its not likely to see too many worthwhile studies done on humans in this area as the prime directive is as much weightloss as possible as soon as possible.
    May you be in heaven an hour before the devil knows you're dead.

  15. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    StL
    Posts
    1,125
    You guys trying to say certain people may benefit from eating; Oats, whey, Milk,egg whites, bananas, bread, chicken, tuna, potatos before 3pm?

    And eating; Red meat, PB, Olive oil, nuts, Milk, Whole eggs...after 3pm?

    I don't have any scientific research documented, but I think I would gain more fat if I ate this in reverse.
    If I have a pizza crave, I eat it for brekfast, even though I am on a bulk.

  16. #15
    I wannabebig!
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    in my own world
    Posts
    1,816
    so I guess if I work in the evenings or am more active after 3pm so much for eating carbs cuz its past the point of no return eh?

  17. #16
    Banned Owen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    321
    http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/...ating_rl_1.htm

    http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/...ating_rl_2.htm

    These articles cover John Berardis eating strategy, including p+c and p+f, which is what I use. Hes a respected guy, and a body builder, as well as a PHD.
    Last edited by Owen; 10-25-2005 at 12:41 PM.

  18. #17
    Meathead Philosopher Pup's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    6,793
    Quote Originally Posted by muscleup
    You guys trying to say certain people may benefit from eating; Oats, whey, Milk,egg whites, bananas, bread, chicken, tuna, potatos before 3pm?

    And eating; Red meat, PB, Olive oil, nuts, Milk, Whole eggs...after 3pm?

    I don't have any scientific research documented, but I think I would gain more fat if I ate this in reverse.
    If I have a pizza crave, I eat it for brekfast, even though I am on a bulk.
    Well...if you had oats before bed, i doubt it would hurt you. Now obviously pounding down a pizza before bed is not conducive to fat loss. Carb tapering (which is what you just described), is a method used by a lot of people, not just those who practice the p/f and p/c protocol. There are some studies that show your metabolism "gets lazy" as the day progresses and using more p/f meals at night (especially n-3 dense foods) would bump the metabolic process. In the "best of" sticky ST and TCD discuss the uncoupling effects of olive oil and n-3...a good read for sure.
    May you be in heaven an hour before the devil knows you're dead.

  19. #18
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    StL
    Posts
    1,125
    Quote Originally Posted by ryuage
    so I guess if I work in the evenings or am more active after 3pm so much for eating carbs cuz its past the point of no return eh?
    No, I still spike after workout and I lift from 430-530 usually. But during dinner and before I go to sleep I don't load up on pasta, bread & potatos.
    You know?
    I really didn't mean I purposly try to do this, but over the past couple months of bulking, it has just worked out that I happen to eat more carbs during the morning through mid day, and then at night after working out I spike directly after and then lay off until morning again.

    I think I save most of the fat and red meat for the end of my day because if I am behind on cals, that's where I will be able to rebound.
    The food that I think of when I need cals are usually milk, PB, and red meat.

  20. #19
    I wannabebig!
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    in my own world
    Posts
    1,816
    Today's nutrition tip comes from Dr. John Berardi:

    Revving Up Metabolism

    I recommend more calories than most do. There's no such thing as a stagnant metabolic set-point. Instead, metabolism chases intake. So, if you want a bigger metabolism, you need a bigger food intake. Just use outcome-based decision making and adjust energy (calorie) intake every two weeks based on your results. Not much "damage" can take place in only two weeks if it turns out you're consuming too much.


    ya uhmm thats why we have so many skinny people running around

  21. #20
    Just watch me ... Built's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    9,912
    I actually do this every few months when I'm dieting. I cut VERY slowly - helps me keep what meagre LBM I have.

    I'll take two weeks off dieting, and eat a LOT over maintenance for that two weeks. This usually translates to a couple pounds of fat gain. Then I'll resume the cut. Helps keep my metabolism from sliding ever downward. It's a nice break from endless dieting, too.

  22. #21
    I wannabebig!
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    in my own world
    Posts
    1,816
    thats nice and all but thats not what he is saying to do.

  23. #22
    Just watch me ... Built's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    9,912
    Well, he's saying to increase your cals for a few weeks to see what happens. Keep in mind, his clientele are athletes, not couch potatoes. Most of us here could probably increase our daily calories by a few hundred and not gain all that much weight from it. I've actually LOST weight by increasing my cals slightly when I was cutting too hard. Eating more food can stimulate the metabolism. I've done it, and I've seen it happen to others many, many times.

    I eat a lot more than most women my weight and age. It's not an accident.

  24. #23
    Proud Father Maki Riddington's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Vancouver, B.C.
    Posts
    5,323
    Unified Theory of Nutrition: Total Calories dictate how much weight a person gains or loses; macro nutrient ratios dictate WHAT a person gains or loses.

    Neat quote.
    Maki Fit Blog

    At Large: Optimize Your Body | Dynamic Conditioning |
    My articles on Wannabebig

    "Soli Deo Gloria"
    "Test all things; hold fast what is good.": 1 Thessalonians 5:21

    "I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do--this I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
    So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God's law; but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God--through Jesus Christ our Lord!"
    Romans 7:14-25

    "Judo is not about strength. Yet in the learning curve, all Judokas get strong. Only with time do you learn where to apply that strength."
    The Art of Judo

  25. #24
    Proud Father Maki Riddington's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Vancouver, B.C.
    Posts
    5,323
    Quote Originally Posted by ryuage
    so I guess if I work in the evenings or am more active after 3pm so much for eating carbs cuz its past the point of no return eh?
    Your body isn't as receptive to carbohydrates at night due to the sleep cycle so if you do shift work I'd watch how you fit your carbs into your program.
    Maki Fit Blog

    At Large: Optimize Your Body | Dynamic Conditioning |
    My articles on Wannabebig

    "Soli Deo Gloria"
    "Test all things; hold fast what is good.": 1 Thessalonians 5:21

    "I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do--this I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
    So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God's law; but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God--through Jesus Christ our Lord!"
    Romans 7:14-25

    "Judo is not about strength. Yet in the learning curve, all Judokas get strong. Only with time do you learn where to apply that strength."
    The Art of Judo

  26. #25
    260(-62) from 193 from 275
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Oshawa-->Toronto
    Posts
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Maki Riddington
    Your body isn't as receptive to carbohydrates at night due to the sleep cycle so if you do shift work I'd watch how you fit your carbs into your program.
    What are you suggesting would happen ?

    In a case of bulking or cutting.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •