The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
    Senior Member MonStar1023's Avatar
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    Changing Routine Up - EVERYONE Please Help...

    beercan, Maki, Chris, Paul, Belial, bignate, Delphi, the doc.. I need yours guys help please.

    After training for a while and reading some of the online journals of a few experienced lifters. I am thinking of maybe keeping my current split.. which is the following..
    day1- back, traps, biceps
    day2- rest
    day3- quads, hamstrings, calves
    day4- rest
    day5- chest, delts, triceps
    day6- rest
    day7- rest/start split over

    However.. my specific exercises on each of those specific days really is not getting my anywhere I dont think. I read that you should have ONE basic compound exercise that you ALWAYS do no matter what. Just an exercise that you can progress on etc. After going through my routine I have that exercise on a few bodyparts but not others..
    back- chins
    traps- dumbbell shrugs
    biceps- barbell curls
    quads- leg presses*
    hamstrings- db stiff-legged deads
    chest- weighted dips
    delts- overhead dbs
    triceps- lying ez-bar ext.

    *dont have access to a squat rack

    Do each of these exercises for each specific bodypart look okay? Ill just add whatever other exercises for each bodypart. Totalling around 8 total sets for big muscle groups and maybe less for smaller muscle groups. I honestly just want to make sure that I am using the OPTIMAL exercises to be honest.

    I am curious what do you guys think of the old style of pyramidding weight. For example if I was going to do lets say 3 sets of squats should I start the first with maybe 275 for 10, the second set with 295 for 7-8, and the third set with 310 for 5-6? I havnt emlpoyed this style of sets in around 3 years now. I am not sure why but I have just used straight sets. For example even for shrugs or whatever I am doing Ill just keep using the same weight for all 3 sets. Would you guys recommend this?

    Please help me out guys... I really need it.
    Last edited by MonStar1023; 01-01-2002 at 02:06 PM.

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  3. #2
    Senior Member MonStar1023's Avatar
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    Grip/Forearm Routine

    Also as many of you have read, and are probably getting sick of reading, I have just recently changed up my grip/forearm routine. I will be training my grip and forearms on these days..
    day1- back, traps, biceps, grip/forearms
    day2- rest
    day3- quads, hamstrings, calves
    day4- rest
    day5- chest, delts, triceps, grip/forearms
    day6- rest
    day7- rest/start split over
    day1- back, traps, biceps
    day2- rest
    day3- quads, hamstrings, calves, grip/forearms
    day4- rest
    day5- chest, delts, triceps
    day6- rest
    day7- rest/start split over

    This way I will be training my forearms/grip approximately twice a week, not under or overtraining, and giving my hands/forearms 3 days rest before I hit them again. My actual forearm/grip routine is as follows.. I am thinking this might be pushing on overtraining so Chris, Paul, Maki, bignate, Belial, all you guys please help me out.
    4 sets of CoC #2 timed-holds
    2 sets of pinching plates
    2 sets of thick-bar wrist roller
    2 sets of CoC #1 for reps

    Its 8 total sets for grip/forearms including the static holds and all that. I know that it sounds like a lot and it does to me too. Should I lower the volume. All 4 of those exercises though are taken right out John Brookefield's "Mastery of Hand Strength." Please help me out.


  4. #3
    . Delphi's Avatar
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    For quads you can also do DB BLDL's- that would be about the same as doing trap-bar deadlifts.

    How about abs? Right now my favorite is Russian twists.

    How about calves? You can do DB one-leg calf raises.

    You're basically doing a push/pull/leg split. Props for not doing workouts on consecutive days. Can you post exact workouts for each day yet?
    Last edited by Delphi; 01-01-2002 at 02:46 PM.

  5. #4
    Senior Member MonStar1023's Avatar
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    DelphiDoc-
    Definitely not a problem bro, and thank you for replying so quickly.
    Back, Traps, Biceps.
    wide-grip front chins 3 sets 6-8 reps
    db pullovers 2 sets 6-8 reps
    seated v-bar rows 3 sets 6-8 reps
    db shrugs 3 sets 6-8 reps
    barbell curls 2 sets 6-8 reps
    incline hammer curls 2 sets 6-8 reps

    Quads, Hamstrings, Calves.
    leg presses 2 sets 6-8 reps
    sissy squats 2 sets 6-8 reps
    leg ext. 2 sets 6-8 reps
    db stiff-legged deads 2 sets 6-8 reps
    leg curls 2 sets 6-8 reps
    seated calf raises 2 sets 20-30 reps
    standing calf raises 2 sets 10-12 reps

    Chest, Delts, Triceps.
    flat db presses 3 sets 6-8 reps
    flat db flyes 3 sets 6-8 reps
    decline cable flyes 2 sets 10-12 reps
    seated overhead presses 3 sets 6-8 reps
    incline db side-laterals 2 sets 6-8 reps
    one-arm cable side laterals 1 set 6-8 reps
    decline ez.-bar ext. 2 sets 6-8 reps
    one-arm overhead ext. 1 set 6-8 reps
    one-arm db kickbacks 1 set 6-8 reps

    Thats basically it. I have no set exercise for each bodypart that I can use as a sign whether or not I am getting stronger which really pisses me off. I use the same weight for all of the sets that I am performing and thats why I am switching to pyramidding I think... Help me out!


  6. #5
    Always in the Action Severed Ties's Avatar
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    Things I'd change-

    Back, Traps, Biceps

    I'd say adding a deadlift would be key here since it really hits all the major areas your working.

    I think chins are a poor choice for your primary movement cause your biceps tend to give out long before your back.

    IMO primary movement should be deadlifts with a slow tempo, 2 second raise 4 seconds lowering, on last rep of the set pause your lift on the lowering portion just below your knees for a 5 second count (it's a great way to fire up those bi's).

    following exercies would then be basic barbell row, then wide-grip pullups. Afterward you can finish up with some higher rep cable rows or pullovers.

    after deadlifting, rowing and pullups you bi's shouldn't have much left so a few sets will finish them.

    Traps I'd do a few sets of heavy barbell shrugs, after you finish each set with the barbell grap a pair of dumbells and keep shrugging only now add a 5 second pause at the top.

    this workout is also great for grip strength since I know you love that. If your grip isn't shot you were probably using straps...but just incase throw in 2 sets of plate pinches if you really need.

    I'll try to look at your other days later

    ST
    "Your bench makes Jesus cry." -Shark

    This is 10% luck, 15% skill, 20% concentrated power of will, 5% pleasure and 50% pain, and 100% reason to remember the name...

  7. #6
    Senior Member MonStar1023's Avatar
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    Severed Ties-
    Thanks a lot for the reply bro.. definitely appreciated. So something along these lines would be okay?

    Back, Traps, Biceps.
    Deadlifts 2 sets (pyramidding?)
    Bentover Rows 2 sets (pyramidding?.. what kinda grip over/underhand?)
    Wide-grip Chins 3 sets (bodyweight?.. pyramidding?)
    Seated V-Bar Rows 1 set 10-15 reps?
    Barbell Shrugs.. (pyramidding?).. after I hit failure immediately after..
    Dumbbell Shrugs (pyramidding weight with barbell shrugs?).. keep shrugging and hold for 5 seconds at the top
    Barbell Curls 2 sets (pyramidding?)
    Incline Hammer Curls 2 sets (pyramidding?)


    I am thinking that with my pyramid my reps should maybe be 6-8, then drop down to 5-6... would the be okay?

    QUESTION 1: would it be okay to use straps on this day if I am NOT hitting my grip/forearms? Because sometimes Ill be hitting my forearms and grip HARD and HEAVY a few days before.

    QUESTION 2: should I train, back, traps, then biceps. Or back, biceps, and then traps?

  8. #7
    Senior Member MonStar1023's Avatar
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    beercan, sysopt, Maki, Chris, Paul, Belial, bignate, Delphi, the doc...

    Last edited by MonStar1023; 01-01-2002 at 02:08 PM.

  9. #8
    . Delphi's Avatar
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    I like your revised Back day. I'd put chins right after deads or you're might end up being too fried to do any good on them. I personally have put them first on my Pull day since I've been wanting to improve them more than anything else I do that day.

    It's your call whether to do shrugs before or after rows. You might want to alternated which comes first every few weeks. Some people would alternate more often, some not at all. Depends on your philosophy of whether changing your routine is a Good Thing or a Bad Thing.

    I've usually decrease the weight I lift each set, but on some exercise I'll do the same weight for each set. I've never pyramidded them, so I don't have any experience to relate in that regard. Anybody else here have an opinion on this?

    If you're doing extensive grip work work on other days it would make sense to me for you to use straps on the heavy lifts like deads or shrugs. You're smart to be thinking about overtraining your forearms, IMO.

    On Chest day you could do BB bench press or weighted dips as your first exercise and use that as the barometer of progress you're looking for. That would also let you shorten the workout some, because it would eliminate the need to do so much isolation work on your pecs, triceps, and delts.

    What makes your Back day look good is how you're doing lots of compound movements. Your barometers there would be deads, rows, and chins. On Chest day that would be bench press, OH press, and dips. On Leg day I don't know about sissy squats but you could do thd DB deads I mentioned earlier or front squats. Neither need a rack.

  10. #9
    Senior Member MonStar1023's Avatar
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    DelphiDoc-
    Whatsup bro? Thanks a lot for the reply. Again yeah I am going to keep my revised back routine for a while and see how that works. I am probably going to use straps just because those CoC grippers are HARD as hell wow. And gripping that heavy weight on back day I think would drive my hands/forarms right into an overtrained state.

    Well see what happens. My traps are really going to get fried I think. Yeah I cant decide whether or not I should START me routine off with chins, or finish my back work off with them. ST said to finish with them. Really cant decide. I am so used to starting with them. And chinning @ 230 lbs. is quite a challenge! So Ill prolly start with them.

    Maybe like this..
    chins 3 sets
    bentover rows 2 sets pyramidding?
    deads 2 sets pyramidding?
    v-bar rows 1 set 10-15 reps

    If I hit my deads before rows my LOW back is killing me during bentover rows, affecting how much weight I can handle.


  11. #10
    WBBs motivational Speaker Rock's Avatar
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    you need a new angle, all those exercises are good, and should help, but you told us your not getting where you want.

    So there maybe there is a motivational problem, but you havent quite admitted it for your self.

    or maybe I am just wrong all the way.

    maybe you could try to focus on benchpress and squats, do them 3times week, with a different reprange.

    ect, day one.
    Benchpress, 6sets, with the weight I can do 2reps with.

    day two
    Benchpress, 6sets, with the weight I can do 4reps with

    day three
    Benchpress 6sets, with the weight I can do 3reps with.

    try that.
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  12. #11
    Senior Member MonStar1023's Avatar
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    ~bump


  13. #12
    Always in the Action Severed Ties's Avatar
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    MonStar pyramidding is fine. I tend to do 4 sets of compound exercises. the first set around 15 reps...more of just a warmup to the lift, check my form and what not. Next set is my first work set, I generally train heavy but I like to shoot for 8-10 on my first set so I'm not just jumping into some serious weight. Next set would be 6 reps, final set would be 4 reps. So I would say I pyramid althought I never really thought of it, it's just how I like to train.

    If I had to define my back development into 2 seperate time periods it would definetly be before deadlifts and after deadlifts. Which is why I'm such a big fan of them, so I would up your sets by 1 or 2. Since you don't train consecutive days IMO you can use more volume without worrying about overtraining, so an extra set or two isn't going to break you.

    I always recommend Deads are placed as the first exercise for two reasons. One they are one of the most demanding lifts so by doing them at the end the load is going to be severly reduced on your most important lift. Two even if sufficient load could be achieved I find guys are so spent that form severly suffers when preformed at the end of a workout.

    As for rows or chins next, I'd say switch each week, or do a set of one, then go do a set of the other and keep going back and forth until all desired sets are completed.

    With rows I like an underhand grip, also because Deads take alot out of your lower back I tend to use lighter weight on rows and preform them slowly, pull my lats as close together as possible and hold the contraction for 2 seconds.

    As for straps, they are acceptable for your heaviest set if you find your grip really giving out.

    After back I hit bi's first then shrugs. Just the tension of holding the weight for shrugs gives my bi's an awesome pump after hitting them hard so it feels like I'm working my traps, bi's, and grip all in one movement. Once every third week I may shrug first thought just cause it gives my bicep workout a completely different feel to it.

    ST
    Last edited by Severed Ties; 01-01-2002 at 04:22 PM.
    "Your bench makes Jesus cry." -Shark

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  14. #13
    MulletII - AKA Ninja Boner Gyno Rhino's Avatar
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    If you're squatting, don't dead. I'd say that some type of row would be your primary back exercise (I like bent-over BB rows). Chins would follow, then finish with some trap exercise.
    Founding Member and CEO of the FFFA

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  15. #14
    Senior Member MonStar1023's Avatar
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    Need some help with my other workouts guys....

    beercan, LATMAN, sysopt, Maki, Chris, Paul, Belial, bignate, Delphi, the doc... where you guys at?



    Anyway so, so far my back, trap, bi routine is..
    chins 3 sets to failure
    bent rows 2 sets alt. over/under hand grip every other week? pyramidding weight I guess?
    deadlifts 2 sets pyramidding weight? 7-8 reps, then 5-6 next set?
    seated v-bar rows 1 set 10-15 reps
    barbell shrugs... 3 sets pyramidding 9-10 reps, 7-8 reps, 5-6 reps... immediately after I fail on each set proceed to dumbbbell shrugs.. holding for a 5 second count at the top of the movement.. this sound okay?
    barbell curls 2 sets pyramidding..? 7-8, 5-6 reps
    incline hammers 2 sets pyramidding 7-8, 5-6 reps


    What about my other 2 days?
    Last edited by MonStar1023; 01-01-2002 at 04:24 PM.

  16. #15
    MulletII - AKA Ninja Boner Gyno Rhino's Avatar
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    Originally posted by MonStar1023
    Need some help with my other workouts guys....

    GYNO where you at?



    Anyway so, so far my back, trap, bi routine is..
    chins 3 sets to failure
    bent rows 2 sets alt. over/under hand grip every other week? pyramidding weight I guess?
    barbell shrugs... 3 sets pyramidding 9-10 reps, 7-8 reps, 5-6 reps... immediately after I fail on each set proceed to barbell curls 2 sets pyramidding..? 7-8, 5-6 reps


    What about my other 2 days?
    I guarantee that would be enough for you. Other two days should look similar.
    Last edited by Gyno Rhino; 01-01-2002 at 04:26 PM.
    Founding Member and CEO of the FFFA

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    ~This is something ugly people say to feel better about themselves...

    "Strength and size don't matter! It's not fair to judge training knowledge based on strength and size!"
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  17. #16
    Senior Member MonStar1023's Avatar
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    Severed Ties-
    Whatsup bro? Thank you for the reply.. okay again lemme try and revise my back workout hehe. Also can you help me out with the rest of my workout days?

    deadlifts 3 sets 7-8 reps, 5-6 reps, 3-4 reps
    chins 3 sets bodyweight to failure (which will be like 6-10 reps)
    Yates rows 2 sets 6-7 reps, 4-5 reps
    barbell shrugs... 3 sets pyramidding 9-10 reps, 7-8 reps, 5-6 reps... immediately after I fail on each set proceed to dumbbbell shrugs.. holding for a 5 second count at the top of the movement.. this sound okay?
    barbell curls 2 sets pyramidding..? 7-8, 5-6 reps
    incline hammers 2 sets pyramidding 7-8, 5-6 reps

    Last edited by MonStar1023; 01-01-2002 at 04:29 PM.

  18. #17
    Gaglione Strength Chris Rodgers's Avatar
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    Exercises seem fine. Plenty of compound exercises. I do not like the pyramid style you are thinking of. I like to pyramid up as a warmup, then go straight to my heaviest weight for my first work set. If I am going to do more sets, I either use the same weight or drop it a bit. My preference.


    If you are doing heavy dead and rows, you don't have to do much trap work. I rarely do any and my traps are growing fine.

    If you are keeping the deads on back day, I would split it up so that there is 3-4 days between back and leg workouts.

    Mon-Pull
    Wed- Push
    Fri- Legs

    Something like that.
    Best Meet Lifts(Raw w/wraps):
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    @165- 680 SQ 380 BE 540 DL.....1555 total
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  19. #18
    Senior Member MonStar1023's Avatar
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    LATMAN-
    Thanks for the reply.. yeah thats what I was thinking. I want to be careful about overtraining my hamstrings or glutes along with lowback now that I am going to be doing full-range deadlifts. Does this look okay to everyone now for my PULL day?

    deadlifts 3 sets 7-8 reps, 5-6 reps, 3-4 reps
    chins 3 sets bodyweight to failure (which will be like 6-10 reps)
    Yates rows 2 sets 6-7 reps, 4-5 reps
    barbell shrugs... 3 sets pyramidding 9-10 reps, 7-8 reps, 5-6 reps... immediately after I fail on each set proceed to dumbbbell shrugs.. holding for a 5 second count at the top of the movement.. this sound okay?
    barbell curls 2 sets pyramidding..? 7-8, 5-6 reps
    incline hammers 2 sets pyramidding 7-8, 5-6 reps



  20. #19
    Senior Member MonStar1023's Avatar
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    LATMAN-
    Also I have beeing doing a warm-up then going right to my heaviest set and its worked pretty well. I am just trying to change things up.. pyramidding also worked well for me back in the day.

    I am going to be using straps on my back day as well.. also is it OKAY like Severed Ties said to start my back work off with deads?


    And I will NOT being doing squats unfortunately. I dont have access to a squat rack. Leg presses will have do make do. For legs does this look okay?

    leg presses 3 sets 7-8, 5-6, 3-4 reps
    one-leg ext. 3 sets 9-10, 7-8, 5-6 reps
    db stiff-legged deads 2 sets 7-8, 5-6 reps
    one-leg curls 2 sets 9-10, 7-8 reps
    seated calf raises 2 sets 20-25, 15-20 reps
    standing calf raises 2 sets 10-12, 6-10 reps



  21. #20
    MulletII - AKA Ninja Boner Gyno Rhino's Avatar
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    Originally posted by MonStar1023
    LATMAN-
    Thanks for the reply.. yeah thats what I was thinking. I want to be careful about overtraining my hamstrings or glutes along with lowback now that I am going to be doing full-range deadlifts. Does this look okay to everyone now for my PULL day?

    deadlifts 3 sets 7-8 reps, 5-6 reps, 3-4 reps
    chins 3 sets bodyweight to failure (which will be like 6-10 reps)
    Yates rows 2 sets 6-7 reps, 4-5 reps
    barbell shrugs... 3 sets pyramidding 9-10 reps, 7-8 reps, 5-6 reps... immediately after I fail on each set proceed to dumbbbell shrugs.. holding for a 5 second count at the top of the movement.. this sound okay?
    barbell curls 2 sets pyramidding..? 7-8, 5-6 reps
    incline hammers 2 sets pyramidding 7-8, 5-6 reps


    Nah, I don't like it. But hey, if it works for you, it works.
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  22. #21
    Senior Member MonStar1023's Avatar
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    Also my push day will be the following..

    weighted dips 3 sets 7-8, 5-6, 3-4 reps
    flat db presses 3 sets 7-8, 5-6, 3-4 reps
    flat db flyes 2 sets 7-8, 5-6 reps
    overhead db press 3 sets 7-8, 5-6, 3-4 reps
    one-arm db side laterals 3 sets 9-10, 7-8, 5-6 reps
    lying ez-bar ext. 2 sets 7-8, 5-6 reps
    one-arm db overhead ext. 2 sets 7-8, 5-6 reps


    Overall.. I am trying to stay in the 4-10 rep range for basic compound movements and in the 6-10 rep range for more isolative type movements. I am thinking that this should work well.

    Overall looking at my LAST 3 posts.. what do you guys think?

    My split PROBABLY will be every other day...
    day1- pull
    day3- push
    day5- legs


    Look good? beercan, LATMAN, sysopt, Maki, Chris, Paul, Belial, bignate, Delphi, the doc, Gyno Rhino..?

  23. #22
    MulletII - AKA Ninja Boner Gyno Rhino's Avatar
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    I just think you're doing too much work each day.

    PULL
    Bent-Over Rows 3 sets
    Chins 3 sets
    Standing BB Shrugs 2 sets
    Standing BB Curls 2 sets

    PUSH
    Weighted Dips 3 sets
    Incline Bench Press 3 sets
    Lateral Raises 2 sets
    Tricep Pressdowns 2 sets

    LEGS
    Leg Press 3 sets
    Leg Ext 4 sets
    Leg Curls 4 sets
    Standing Calf 2 sets

    If that routine doens't make you grow, then you just ain't workin' hard enough, ain't eatin enough, or have the genetics of Peewee Herman.
    Founding Member and CEO of the FFFA

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    ~This is something ugly people say to feel better about themselves...

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    And no COLON jokes, bastards!

  24. #23
    Senior Member MonStar1023's Avatar
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    Gyno Rhino-
    Well see what happens bro. I dont know I cant decide.. I mean I dont think that I overtraining at all. I mean training only 3x per week has worked well. And right now I am only training 25-35 minutes. Sometimes 40-50 tops. With what your suggesting it would be like 15-20 minutes!.. I dont know well see.

    Day 1. PULL.
    deadlifts 3 sets 7-8 reps, 5-6 reps, 3-4 reps
    chins 3 sets bodyweight to failure (which will be like 6-10 reps)
    Yates rows 2 sets 6-7 reps, 4-5 reps
    barbell shrugs... 3 sets pyramidding 9-10 reps, 7-8 reps, 5-6 reps... immediately after I fail on each set proceed to dumbbbell shrugs.. holding for a 5 second count at the top of the movement.. this sound okay?
    barbell curls 2 sets pyramidding..? 7-8, 5-6 reps
    incline hammers 2 sets pyramidding 7-8, 5-6 reps

    Day 3. PUSH.
    weighted dips 3 sets 7-8, 5-6, 3-4 reps
    flat db presses 3 sets 7-8, 5-6, 3-4 reps
    flat db flyes 2 sets 7-8, 5-6 reps
    overhead db press 3 sets 7-8, 5-6, 3-4 reps
    one-arm db side laterals 3 sets 9-10, 7-8, 5-6 reps
    lying ez-bar ext. 2 sets 7-8, 5-6 reps
    one-arm db overhead ext. 2 sets 7-8, 5-6 reps

    Day 5. LEGS.
    leg presses 3 sets 7-8, 5-6, 3-4 reps
    one-leg ext. 3 sets 9-10, 7-8, 5-6 reps
    db stiff-legged deads 2 sets 7-8, 5-6 reps
    one-leg curls 2 sets 9-10, 7-8 reps
    seated calf raises 2 sets 20-25, 15-20 reps
    standing calf raises 2 sets 10-12, 6-10 reps

  25. #24
    MulletII - AKA Ninja Boner Gyno Rhino's Avatar
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    Hehe, I forgot to mention to take about 5 minutes between sets on big exercises.
    Founding Member and CEO of the FFFA

    "All that matters is beauty on the inside! Outside beauty doesn't matter!"
    ~This is something ugly people say to feel better about themselves...

    "Strength and size don't matter! It's not fair to judge training knowledge based on strength and size!"
    ~This is something wussy people say to feel better about themselves...

    Pearls of Wisdom...


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  26. #25
    Senior Member MonStar1023's Avatar
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    Oh haha really?


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